Mason Mount in his first 2 games for us. His replacement Eriksen (halfway through the 2nd half ) had a pretty similar number of passes/touches in 1/3 the time.
Only with the gift of hindsight, and not in the real world, no. It's not like Mount's career at Utd is going to be defined by his first 4 months here, in a team in turmoil and with injury. If his overall time here is more of the same, then sure, the transfer will be deemed a failure. But even with that in mind, this transfer and Havertz's are not comparable - which is the initial point I was replying to (and to which in fairness the poster recognised he hadn't followed closely enough).
What hindsight? He was available for free this summer and we managed to waste nearly £60m, maybe half that OK. He also had one good season at Chelsea.
Poor guy would be annihilated - more like a jester at the court.
I don't think thats true - many people were scratching their heads over the Mount transfer at the time, in terms of a) The Fee, especially when he was in the last year of contract b) The fact that Chelsea probably wanted to sell c) The quality of player and d) Us actually needing a player like him in the squad (or at least some combinations of these factors)
He had 2, but let's rewrite history. Him "being available on a free" this summer is nonsense though. He probably would have been signed by Arsenal or Liverpool who were both interested last summer (this has been clearly reported by Laurie Whitwell, and was the reason why we went fast with that transfer). The nonsense and revisionism around the Mount transfer is frankly tiring.
I don't know why anyone was scratching their head at the fee - with 2 other top clubs interested, and Mount's career to date, it was a perfectly reasonable fee in today's market. It hasn't worked out so far, whether or not he does in the future is another question but from a financial perspective at the time, it made sense. It definitely wasn't ludicrous.
Of course he could? It was well reported he wasn't going to sign an extension with Chelsea, Arsenal pivoted away from him and signed Kai Havertz before we bought Mount - so they literally couldn't have bought Mount even if they wanted to at that point because of FFP. Liverpool were never going to spend £55m on Mount which is why they pulled out.
Nope a large minority (at the very least) were displeased with the transfer. The entire transfer was tiring because of how split the fans were.
That's fine and we disagree on this. With regards to Havertz, it was like a week apart and you know fair well that negotiations would have started well before then - it's likely that we sped up our process when we saw interest from other clubs and Arsenal withdrew. I meant it's not even likely, it's what was reported by Whitwell who's anything but a click merchant.
We were never signing Kovacic, so what's the point in bringing that up?
Well the original point was that Chelsea fleeced us for Mount much like they've fleeced Arsenal for Havertz... and you can clearly make a resonable argument that they have done just that (even if the jury is still out on him as player for us)
No, that was Suheilsworld's point, what I was replying to was
It was just about Mount as a player for us. I actually have very little interest in transfer debates in general because it's clouded by hindsight, lack of information (for the major, major part), and fan fiction.
Personally feel the pass he received was pretty rubbish.
It was, it was too slow and behind him as well. Many strikers would end up doing what Havertz did and no one would bat much of an eye, but one it's Havertz who people are looking for moments to ridicule and also he looks gangly as hell trying to control the ball.
Agree.
Oh it's a terrible pass, but that doesn't excuse Havertz first, second and third touch looking like, well, the first, second and third time he'd ever touched a football.
His first touch is unbelievably bad. Under no pressure and the ball barely moving. So so poor.
That’s not a nice way to speak about Dortmund.
Nah, he aged out of the "young exciting baller" category and doesn’t fit the "experienced mentality player" category either. Dortmund won't be interested in signing him.
What did I say about Havertz at Leverkusen? I was mentioning his role at Arsenal being very limited in terms of build up. Havertz at Leverkusen was much more involved in build-up compared to Arsenal, of course.It is actually the other way round. That's Havertz' heatmap in his last season for us:
All his heatmaps look like that. So playing him in midfield is actually a good idea. What @hasanejaz88 said about his role is a bit weird though, he was highly involved in the build up back then. He had 65 touches per 90 for us, at Arsenal it is 32
I think I phrased that a bit stupidly
What I meant was: I think it is very weird that he's partaking so little in the build up because this was one of his strengthes for us.I can understand Arsenal's hesitancy because he has been quite poor in recent seasons on the ball, don't know if it's just confidence or acclimatising to the league, plus they already have Odegaard who is clearly a better player than him as a number 10.I think I phrased that a bit stupidly
I got the heatmap from Sofascore.
Still talking about positions like it matters like he plays any different.
This is the Dortmund that are currently signing Jadon Sancho on loan right? Which category does he fit in?
Oh right, I forgot their third category "return of former players who will never reach their level again "
I think it matters and I like discussions about tactical stuff. If you don't, it's fine, nobody's forcing you to partake
what a transfer, lucky bastards. In a couple of years, we will all ask ourselves how did he end up at Chelsea without competition. I know because of Covid, but still, more top clubs should have been in for him.
And then this guy knew!
Anyway, shit quoting aside it’s quite intriguing looking back to see all the praise being heaped on Havertz when he arrived, and Chelsea actually with the signings they made that summer, then looking at how it’s turned out. Only the free transfer of Thiago Silva has stood the test of time from that batch and that’s not even mentioning the Lukaku deal in its glory.
Is it crack cocaine? I mean this is a post you included in whatever exercise you’re engaged in right now:
Half of our CL winning team is riding the bench at other clubs. Makes what Tuchel did with that team even more remarkable.
Making jokes about CTE after the recent passing of Sir Bobby Charlton is poor form.
Mount wasn’t transfer listed and they tried to keep him.. but don’t let that get in the way of a funny story.
@LuckyScout78 you have competition.
