Donny, Kai Hervertz, Sancho, Grealish, Koulibali. Not sure how truth in these considering the amount of debt we have
Donny van de Beek | van de Beek's father: "[Moving to United] a dream come true."
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I think there's 2 reasons why Ole wants VDB (and Grealish)
1) Ole played in a team with one of the most hardworking midfield of its era. You had Roy Keane who was a work rate beast, Beckham on the right, Scholes and Giggs on the left. He understand that a balance of workrate and class is not only possible but highly desirable. Now our current midfield relies heavily on Matic. Pogba while brilliant simply doesn't contribute enough defensive wise to play alongside Bruno and McT/Fred. But what if VDB takes Pogba's place? A midfield made up of Fred/McT, VDB and Bruno or Fred/McT. VDB and Pogba can do the trick.
2) James can play as LW and RW, Bruno can play as AMC, MC and no 10, VDB can play as DM, B2B and AMC. Graelish can play as a LW, CM and AMC, Bellingham can develop as a DM, MC and AMC. Jadon can play as LW and RW. Do you spot the link here? These are young, talented players, whose got great work rate and can play multiple roles. Which makes sense really. Having someone like that won't just cover gaps but it also put 2-3 first teamers on their toes. That's because someone like Graelish can take Bruno's, Pogba's and Rashford's job
1) But Ole himself took Pogba out of the AM position and put him back into DM. He's the one who said he can play there at the beginning of the season. So that wouldnt make sense unless he's holding his hands up and saying he was wrong about it. So he obviously doesnt agree with the hard work idea otherwise he wouldnt have put Pogba there with Andreas in AM. He'd have kept Pogba in his attacking position and had the hard working duo of Fred and McTominay from the start instead of just because Pogba is injured.
2) Yeah thats not going to happen. We arent signing VDB, Grealish, Bellingham and Sancho all in the next window
. At least not without selling Pogba, De Gea and some others. And the comments suggest those 2 will be here next season. Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone that its possible that we're suddenly going to have our most lavish and luxury summer ever and sign every high profile player we're linked to at once without losing anyone.Does anyone here want him? I'll be honest I haven't seen hardly anything of him so I'm just watching a YouTube video, as we all do, and I can't say I seem impressed by him, I don't see how he fits into a midfield with PP and Bruno. He just seems like he's always in a number 10 position in the clips. I'd rather use the money for him and get an actual destroyer for the CDM position.
Regards your first point in bold... Do we know that VDB offers more defensively that Pogba? From what I've seen of VDB he's quite attack minded and we saw that for Ajax in that CL run they had and from most of the videos you find online of him.
After all Pogba did play this position for France when they won the world cup, albeit alongside world class midfielders like Kante. That said, as of right now, you could argue that Pogba is more suited to the role alongside Fred/MCT and that VDB would in reality be competing for the AM role with Bruno?
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of those two suggestions with VDB supposedly being quite versatile and hard working, perhaps Ole just wants a quality player that gives him versatility, especially allowing for injuries.
Sure, if we have a plan for how we intend to use him. I just don't know what that plan is. It might become more clear when we see who is leaving this summer.
As a player though I like him from the bits I've seen.
1. I think Pogba is on borrowed time with United. He doesn't fit in Ole's mentality, his agent is a cnut and he doesn't want to be here. As said, specialised players who can play in one 1 role and who doesn't work hard for the team aren't the type of players Ole likes. The big question here is whether Pogba will be here next season or not. Either way it makes sense to exploit this buyer's market to sign his replacement.1) But Ole himself took Pogba out of the AM position and put him back into DM. He's the one who said he can play there at the beginning of the season. So that wouldnt make sense unless he's holding his hands up and saying he was wrong about it. So he obviously doesnt agree with the hard work idea otherwise he wouldnt have put Pogba there with Andreas in AM. He'd have kept Pogba in his attacking position and had the hard working duo of Fred and McTominay from the start instead of just because Pogba is injured.
2) Yeah thats not going to happen. We arent signing VDB, Grealish, Bellingham and Sancho all in the next window
2. Of course not. I think we're going to buy a RW and possibly a CM but that's all. However one can acknowledge a pattern in the players bought or being heavily linked with us. All of them are young, they tend to be hardworking and very versatile.
Ah I almost forgot. Managers tend to be a rather short shortlist. If Pogba and VDB are in Zidane's list and we take the latter then there's every possibility for Real to go all out for the former.
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We really need someone who watches Ajax alot to clarify the positions he can play and his style of play
VDB covers far more inches of pitch then Pogba does. Also he had played in a DM position although he's more comfortable as a B2B.
Pogba himself said that he becomes less and less efficient the further down the pitch he goes.
We did with Fred
In a time like this, seems crazy. How much money DO the owners have stocked up. Hah
Ajax won’t price him out of a move. I reckon IF we do sign him it’ll be around €30-35m, structured over a few years and maybe an extra €5m in bonus built in for step goals
This is the thing, I think they are both better suited to the B2B role. I agree (and would prefer) Pogba further up the pitch or at least not too overly reliant in a more defensive role, but of the two he's played there on a bigger stage and effectively.
I think the better answer would be to sign a top class fixed DM, like a Partey or similar. That would get the best of the crop of midfielders we have IMO.
That would be a good price, even in these financially difficult times. Would be a no brainer at that price.
If we're keeping Pogba then you're probably right. However I think that Pogba is a goner, either this year or the next. If Pogba leaves then a hardworking trio made up of McT/Fred, VDB and Bruno would be great for us. VDB has the workrate needed for us not to rely on a DM (whose usually a liability creative wise) and he will create far more chances and score goals then McT/Fred do.
Also note that big clubs have a reputation especially Galactico Real. If we strip Zidane from his no 2 name on his shortlist then there will be immense pressure on Real to go for his no 1 on his shortlist. That is Paul Pogba.
Although largely different: Bellingham, Grealish and VDB would fill similar roles within the squad. The fact we've been heavily linked with all 3, I think says we've got 1 more season of Pogba tops.
I'm not so sure Pogba is going to move on, the Spanish league has taken a huge hit through Covid-19 and can't see them spending the money required this year - perhaps next year.
I'm hoping Pogba stays long term and we build a team around him and Bruno, two world class play makers. My concern is that, in my opinion, we need a midfield that puts in good numbers of goals, I don't trust Martial and Rashford enough yet to get the sheer amount of goals we need to take us into top 4 consistently - I hope I'm wrong on that and I hope Sancho comes in and adds goals and improves Martial and Rashford overall.
My thinking is it's better to do all we can to retain the top quality players we have and add to them rather than doing it the other way around and selling our best and trying to replace them. I mean, where do you find a Pogba replacement? I know some are frustrated by him but he's a pretty unique type of player, I'm positively certain we will see the absolute best of him alongside this additional quality we are adding.
I suppose, In summary I'm happy for us to sign players like VDB to compliment the squad but not at the expensive of top quality like Pogba.
That clearly wasnt the plan at the time. We thought we were signing someone to go straight into the team and improve it
I can see how he would fit in with Oles plans. All hypothetical of course. Pogba wants out. I think thats obvious. If he stays its because Real/Juve wont stump up the cash. Not because he doesn't want to leave. So we need a replacement. I think Ole prefers 2 hard working box to box players in the center of midfield ala Fred and McTominay. This brings a better balance then DM (Party for example) + box to Box or AM (Grealish for example) + Box to Box.
I think we will more likely sign VDB + Bellingham as Pogbas' replacements then Partey, Grealish, Havertz etc. Plus they fit the right character that we are looking for not like Grealish who is a bit wild.
Rashford------Martial--------Sancho
------------------Fernandez-----------------
-----------VDB------------Fred/Mctominay
I think we will more likely sign VDB + Bellingham as Pogbas' replacements then Partey, Grealish, Havertz etc. Plus they fit the right character that we are looking for not like Grealish who is a bit wild.
Rashford------Martial--------Sancho
------------------Fernandez-----------------
-----------VDB------------Fred/Mctominay
If Pogba is leaving or is permacrocked then I would love this. He could work very well alongside Bruno to press high up the pitch, and would help keep Bruno fresher as he doesn't have to press for two like if Pogba was alongside him. If Pogba is happy and we are going to plan around playing both him and Bruno then I don't see the point in spunking a load of money on him van de Beek though, would rather Fred or McTominay as the DM than van de Beek.
People who think Ole should spend on a destroyer are on the wrong track I feel - I don't think Ole likes to play with a pure CDM destroyer, he prefers that the team defend as a team, instead of relying on 1 individual to cover the gaps. All the midfielders he himself played with during his playing days with us were with all top class midfielders who could do more than just "break up the play".
His defensive workrate is really good. Attacking threat too.
Perfect as B2B, but also versatile in different roles.
Perfect as B2B, but also versatile in different roles.
He just seems like an Herrera level type player. Now don't get me wrong, I liked Ander but I don't think he was anything special and in my opinion, which again I have to stress is literally based on a couple YouTube videos of him, I don't think he will elevate our midfield to the next level that some of the other players we've been linked with, in the CDM role, would.
You forgot to add that he had the best team and the best manager in his playing days with us.
I don't think that Pogba's fee is the real problem. Fees can be structured and can stretch upon multiple years. Very few transfers pay in cash these days. The issue here is that both Juve and Real are low balling us. They know that Pogba wants to leave, he's running in his last 1-2 years of contract and that he's being managed by a ruthless agent who wants him out. Maybe there's an ulterior reason why Pogba had barely featured this season apart from his injury. You see, players do tend to play despite not being 100% fit. So anyone insisting on being 100% fit first before playing might be doing so to push the club to sell him up.
Now let's turn to Ole. The guy is pretty old school. He hates drama and he's obsessed with the club's culture. He played in a team were our midfielders were both talented and hardworking and he'd like to emulate that again. VDB is his type of player. He's young, he's versatile, he's got great workrate, he's talented, his fee isn't that excessive and he probably comes with VDS's endorsement as well. If he ends up with VDB, Bruno and McT/Fred in CM then he'll have a well balanced midfield whose both hardworking and talented. That opposed to having Pogba whose more talented but whose a liability defensive wise and tend to slow the game with his dribbling to nowhere or by holding the ball a bit too much. Having VDB instead of Pogba would also mean not having to rely on a Matic like DM, a position Ole's mentor probably hated as much as he hated Liverpool. Which makes sense really as a dedicated DM is a bit of a liability creativity wise. I know that Ole is his own man but he did learn most of his football from Sir Alex so we presume that some of the influence is there.
VDB's signing makes sense whether Pogba leaves this year or the next.
a- Pogba will probably leave either this year or the next He doesn't want to stay here, his agent wants a move for him and l think Ole wants to remove the drama surrounding him and the likes of Jlingz etc
b- This is a buyer's market. VDB would probably cost us 80m in normal circumstances. Now we might do business on 50m. So we're better off bringing Pogba's replacement now.
c- Real have a certain image to uphold and its share of club's politics to face. If Zidane loses the chance of getting his no 2 target then he'll expect Real to do more to get him his no 1 signing. Hopefully that might see Real coming to our door with a realistic bid.
For the price this signing should be a no brainer. There’s no indication that Pogba is signing a new a contract and Von de Beek would be the perfect replacement. Woodward couldn’t shut his mouth telling the world we’d be competitive in the market. Getting a target who was destined for Madrid would be a sign of true intent.
I quite like him. That vision, creativity and one touch football in the last third are excellent. A hardworking player and good attitude too. I like Partey as DM too.
I'm really concerned with Paul Pogba. I would like him to commit to the club and change his attitude or just sell him please. If he doesn't sign I would like him to be sold.
I'm really concerned with Paul Pogba. I would like him to commit to the club and change his attitude or just sell him please. If he doesn't sign I would like him to be sold.
From that video I deduce that he’s a mix of carrick & berbatov
Still not sure if I’d prefer Van De Beek over Grealish as an option in midfield. Granted both of them bring different attributes to the table, but for now I’m tilting towards Grealish.
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Remember everyone talking about Ajax' Tadic compared to Southampton's Tadic?
He's one of the reasons why.
He's one of the reasons why.
I dont personally feel we need a midfielder at the moment. As it stands, I feel we have a decent enough balance.
Next season, we will need to replace Matic with a top class holding midfielder.
What Matic has shown is that, despite his legs slightly going, he still remains our best holding midfielder regards positional awareness.
Theres always going to question marks with Pogba, so again, if he goes, then we need to be looking at bringing in a top class deep-lying playmaker or box to box midfielder.
As it stands though, I feel we're fine in the midfield area.
Next season, we will need to replace Matic with a top class holding midfielder.
What Matic has shown is that, despite his legs slightly going, he still remains our best holding midfielder regards positional awareness.
Theres always going to question marks with Pogba, so again, if he goes, then we need to be looking at bringing in a top class deep-lying playmaker or box to box midfielder.
As it stands though, I feel we're fine in the midfield area.
I think this is United exploiting the corona market..
And im guessing bellingham chose bvb.
And van der sar called us and offered up van de beek on a silver platter.
And im guessing bellingham chose bvb.
And van der sar called us and offered up van de beek on a silver platter.
In mindset and workrate, definately. I think Herrera was much more defensive minded than him though.
But Herrera had a big impact on the team even though he wasnt "anything special". Grit, workrate and intelligence goes a long way.
I suppose. I would rather just spend the money elsewhere.
Yeah, and I agree with you - we should really more focus on a DM.
But this case is abit special because Donny made an agreement with Ajax last year that he would stay for one more season and then he could move to another club.
And I think some reliable Dutch journalists reported that he felt he was ready, and wanted, an opportunity to go to a bigger club.
With RM pulling out and many of Europe's top clubs just doesnt have the financial clout or will to get him, United are his and Ajax's only choice as of now.
Which again mean we can get him A)comparativly cheap and B) almost with no competition. With our strong ties to Van der Saar it would be quite folly not to at least inquire and look what price we can get for him.
Even if he is not exactly what United needs, he is a potential good, versatile and cheap signing for the next 5-6 years . Noone questions his space awareness or football intelligence, and that is much harder to coach than basic technical skills.
In essence its an opportunity that presents itself, and its a good move to at least look at what the price will be.
Regarding what many have said about him doesnt want to come here to sit on the bench - that would be exactly what he would do at RM.
My personal opinion is that he is ready for competing for his spot and not be a guaranteed starter. And with the amount of games United play each season coupled with injuries, he would get quite alot.
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Are there any Ajax fans here who can give us a clearer understanding of how VdB might fit into Ole's plans?
What about Suarez, Zlatan, Seedorf, Davids, Overmars, Van Basten, De Boer brothers, Kluivert, De Jong, Bergkamp, VDS, Rijkard, Gullit, Stam?
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