Donny Van de Beek

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? We are probably the PL club that has played the most different formations this year. It is clear as day that our playstyle has developed from counter attacking (where we adapt our setup to counter other teams style and strength, e.g. by changing the formation) to a more possession based (where we try to apply our style on other teams) style. During this journey Ole has implemented his preferred formation. 4-2-3-1 has always been Ole's preferred formation - even though he is a pragmatic manager that can utilise other formations as well.

Donny's problem is that he is a number 8 in Ajax's 4-3-3 system, where the number 8 moves into the number 10 when attacking, i.e. the same space Bruno occupies. In United's 4-2-3-1 he doesn't press as well as Bruno does when he plays as number 10. And there is no indication that his playstyle is suited for the pivot either. Basically I'm unsure if his skillset matches Premier League at all - and in particular United's playstyle.

If he was good enough and suited our playstyle, he would be playing. Donny is borderline becoming a meme at this stage the way some supporters are hyping him up as he is the second coming to Zidane. He isn't a spectacular player, he is a system player, and the system he is used to playing isn't similar to United's style.
Mostly agreed but it's not that much of a playstyle but just about quality, if he's good enough he can adapt, similarly to other players here, most notably Herrera coming here as playing mostly as a no10. Or he can easily fail like Mkhitaryan or Kagawa, the skillset is there, let's hope he's got the mentality to make that shift. Without self confidence and hardwork he would always fail here...
 

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Straight swap with Nicolo Barella. If not then Inter can feck off.
Big fan of Barella, would be a much better fit to what we have here but seems he was destined to play for one of the big Italian teams.. not sure if he would move after winning the Scudetto.
 

Poborsky's hair

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why do you guys care more about dvdbs career than your own club? like, we need him for depth? why are people getting emotional here saying he has to leave... the best thing for the club is that we have depth. if bruno gets a big injury he probably gets 45 starts and we need him to perform well, not like he has been performing so far. needs to get his head right and perform when he gets his chance... this is a big club, we dont sign young guys and guarantee them starts regardless of performance. this thread gets wierder as the years goes on
spot on
 

Rozay

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Some people didn't want him in the first place, so would rather be proved "right" that he leaves, rather than support him and keep some depth for the squad.

Apparently city are allowed to have a world class bench and have players like Bernardo Silva on the bench most the year, but we can't have DVB
Well to be fair, if you didn’t want him in the first place, then why would you not want him to leave as of today? Has he come in and proved you wrong?

I’d admit to being amongst those who did not want us to sign him, I said at the time that I had doubts that he was good enough. For people like me who held such a position 12 months ago, naturally you wouldn’t care if he left. If anything, my view has been vindicated, and at the very least, if you didn’t think he was good enough and didn’t want us to sign him in the first place, then such a supporter isn’t being reactive by saying he should be moved on. It simply means that they don’t think VDB is good enough.

For anyone who felt he wasn’t good enough last summer to now be in a group that desperately wants him to stay, after how his year has gone, would be odd. It would just be some sort of ‘top red’ position of ‘support the players’.
 

Adam-Utd

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Well to be fair, if you didn’t want him in the first place, then why would you not want him to leave as of today? Has he come in and proved you wrong?

I’d admit to being amongst those who did not want us to sign him, I said at the time that I had doubts that he was good enough. For people like me who held such a position 12 months ago, naturally you wouldn’t care if he left. If anything, my view has been vindicated, and at the very least, if you didn’t think he was good enough and didn’t want us to sign him in the first place, then such a supporter isn’t being reactive by saying he should be moved on. It simply means that they don’t think VDB is good enough.

For anyone who felt he wasn’t good enough last summer to now be in a group that desperately wants him to stay, after how his year has gone, would be odd. It would just be some sort of ‘top red’ position of ‘support the players’.
I don't think he's ever had a chance to show his talents fully to be honest. He's had some great cameos, he's had some games where he's not done much.

You can't play 1 game a month or 10 minutes here or there to be at your peak, it's just not possible.

He deserves at least 4/5/6 games in a row to get up to match sharpness and then see what he's got, but if you can't see he's got amazing technique and a great footballing brain then I don't know what to say.

He just needs to get fitter.
 

jesperjaap

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Too good a player to not work his way into our team eventually
Is he though? Personally I was never excited about him as a signing, didnt think he actually improved our first eleven when we signed him.

I think there were a lot of unrealistic expectations on him due to the success of that Ajax side but for me there was DeLigt and DeJong who looked liek top players, then a rung of players under them that looked like good players, VDB being one. A good player no doubt about that but not a big player. Doing a lazy thing, I would see him more as a good player startign at Spurs regularly level wise.

You can say he needs more opportunities.....but you have to take those you are given, he hasnt so far. Whether that is to do with settling in to a new country and team or that he simply isn tgood enough to start games at this club is to be seen, I know which I think though
 

jesperjaap

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why do you guys care more about dvdbs career than your own club? like, we need him for depth? why are people getting emotional here saying he has to leave... the best thing for the club is that we have depth. if bruno gets a big injury he probably gets 45 starts and we need him to perform well, not like he has been performing so far. needs to get his head right and perform when he gets his chance... this is a big club, we dont sign young guys and guarantee them starts regardless of performance. this thread gets wierder as the years goes on
I agree. Personally think he was the wrogn signing anyway but regardless you need to perform and justify a place in the side from the games you play whether you are a world class signing or steppin gup from the academy.

I disagree he gets 45 starts though if Fernandes is injured, actually see others playing there ahead of him in the current line up. For that reason (maybe as didnt really want him anyway), I would sell him not for the sake of it being the wrong move for his career coming here and the wrong move for us (though it was both) but simply because for me he doesnt play enough games even within the squad to justify his wages or not cashing in. I think he will play more games next season....but not actually that many even if we get a major injury personally
 

Rozay

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I don't think he's ever had a chance to show his talents fully to be honest. He's had some great cameos, he's had some games where he's not done much.

You can't play 1 game a month or 10 minutes here or there to be at your peak, it's just not possible.

He deserves at least 4/5/6 games in a row to get up to match sharpness and then see what he's got, but if you can't see he's got amazing technique and a great footballing brain then I don't know what to say.

He just needs to get fitter.
Well I’d argue that he doesn’t really ‘deserve’ any games. Minutes are something for him to earn with performances. He would certainly benefit from 4-6 games in a row, but there would be little justification in giving them to him at the moment.

I don’t know if he has amazing technique and footballing brain. I know that those are his strengths - I have always known that those are his strengths. What I don’t know if those are his strengths at the very top end of the game yet. I’m certainly not writing him off though, as it is of course difficult to drawn any absolutes giving the circumstances and lack of time. I expect him to be better next season, if he’s still here. I liked how he played earlier in the season in central midfield, particularly against Southampton away.

It will be hard for him though. I think that even if Bruno were to be out, we have enough options in certain positions that I’d expect Pogba to be moved to #10 before he is played. He’ll play some cup games, but was sadly poor against Leicester.
 

sherrinford

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Is he though? Personally I was never excited about him as a signing, didnt think he actually improved our first eleven when we signed him.

I think there were a lot of unrealistic expectations on him due to the success of that Ajax side but for me there was DeLigt and DeJong who looked liek top players, then a rung of players under them that looked like good players, VDB being one. A good player no doubt about that but not a big player. Doing a lazy thing, I would see him more as a good player startign at Spurs regularly level wise.

You can say he needs more opportunities.....but you have to take those you are given, he hasnt so far. Whether that is to do with settling in to a new country and team or that he simply isn tgood enough to start games at this club is to be seen, I know which I think though
He does need opportunities. How many times has he started a game with all of Maguire, Shaw, Pogba, Fernandes, Rashford and one of Cavani or Martial?

While we have Fred and McTominay established as starters in midfield and Van de Beek on the outskirts of the squad I think we're missing an opportunity.
 

jesperjaap

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He does need opportunities. How many times has he started a game with all of Maguire, Shaw, Pogba, Fernandes, Rashford and one of Cavani or Martial?

While we have Fred and McTominay established as starters in midfield and Van de Beek on the outskirts of the squad I think we're missing an opportunity.
If you are saying maybe we should try him in one of the pivot roles, I am not adversed to that, not sure he is suited to playing there but only one way to find out. In general do I think he should have had more opportunities, yes, especially before Christmas when several players were playing poorly.

But outside of that, it appears he wont play alongisde all of those players as some of them, it is there position Ole seems to see him in. Also in general, my opinion is simply he is a good player but he isnt actually that good, obviously an Ajax academy player with the technique he has, but he is like a decent actor that went to theatre school to me, not a stand out player, think some had unrealistic expectations of him and if he or his agent thought he would walk into the side and be a star, they did too. I dont see him as a starter and I don tthink in admittedly very veyr few chances he has done anything to earn himself more chances as he hasnt taken any yet. He has been anomynous most of the time he has played.
 

jesperjaap

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Well to be fair, if you didn’t want him in the first place, then why would you not want him to leave as of today? Has he come in and proved you wrong?

I’d admit to being amongst those who did not want us to sign him, I said at the time that I had doubts that he was good enough. For people like me who held such a position 12 months ago, naturally you wouldn’t care if he left. If anything, my view has been vindicated, and at the very least, if you didn’t think he was good enough and didn’t want us to sign him in the first place, then such a supporter isn’t being reactive by saying he should be moved on. It simply means that they don’t think VDB is good enough.

For anyone who felt he wasn’t good enough last summer to now be in a group that desperately wants him to stay, after how his year has gone, would be odd. It would just be some sort of ‘top red’ position of ‘support the players’.
I agree totally, also in the dont want us to sign him. In fact I could actually say this for a lot of the signings we have made over the last decade. Makes you wonder what the managers and recruitment scouts etc are doing considering I have felt vindicated 80% of the time it feels. I dont like to feel vindicated though, its more being frustrated, prefer being pleasantly surprised, in his first year or two I got that from Matic as thought he was a poor signing. What is disapointing is when we sign players I think will be really good, Sanchez of course being an obvious example.

But of course, why if we sign a player we think is either not th eright fit or simply not good enough, when they dont perform, why on earth would we want to support them jsut because they are at our club when we dont think they should have been and when they arent performing for it. In the case of VDB of coruse it is a little different as he isnt even playing
 

jesperjaap

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I don't think he's ever had a chance to show his talents fully to be honest. He's had some great cameos, he's had some games where he's not done much.

You can't play 1 game a month or 10 minutes here or there to be at your peak, it's just not possible.

He deserves at least 4/5/6 games in a row to get up to match sharpness and then see what he's got, but if you can't see he's got amazing technique and a great footballing brain then I don't know what to say.

He just needs to get fitter.
I think most think he should have hadmore opportunties by now, especially in his first few months here when we didnt perform. A small sample of course, but I certainyl dont remember "amazing" cameos, I only remember one good performance, in fact half the time barely even noticed he was on the pitch. If he did have amazing cameos he would have got more opportunities.

Hopefully he will get a bit more game time once our premiership fate has been sealed. I dont think anybody thinks he is a bad player. I think he seems an intelligent player and has good technique. For me though there was a reason everybody was after DeLigt and DeJong after that champions league season and other didnt move. It wasnt for me Ajax only letting so many go, think others were monitored Ziyech, Neres, VDB are all good players but they are not top top players like the other two. Ziyech has of coruse played more but I think he was also overhyped like VDB, so many saying what a huge signing that was for Chelsea, it wasnt, he isnt better than what they have, is a decent upgrade on what they sold and a very good squad player to fight for a place, that is how I see VDB....I would say he should have got more minutes as a sub the last couple of months as Fernandes has actually been very poor at times recently.
 

ThreeCorners

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Was pretty awful today. I know he was playing on the wing and hasn't played many games. Had the odd useful flick, but his general play was just bad (passing, movement, defending). Best to cut losses this summer I think, Fred wasn't this bad in his first season was he?
 

Bwuk

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Was pretty awful today. I know he was playing on the wing and hasn't played many games. Had the odd useful flick, but his general play was just bad (passing, movement, defending). Best to cut losses this summer I think, Fred wasn't this bad in his first season was he?
Fred was probably worse. He looked like he’d won a competition to play for United.
 

Van Piorsing

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Ffs, why don't we put him in defense, just to complete whole amount of positions we're trying to force him into.
 

sullydnl

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Was pretty awful today. I know he was playing on the wing and hasn't played many games. Had the odd useful flick, but his general play was just bad (passing, movement, defending). Best to cut losses this summer I think, Fred wasn't this bad in his first season was he?
Fred was atrocious.
 
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Fred was probably worse. He looked like he’d won a competition to play for United.
both awful. DVDB can hide a lot easier - and he’s very good at that. I’m not a fan of Fred, and he’s been poor again tonight, but he doesn’t hide, he gets stuck in and competes. DVDB goes missing.
 

Jackal981

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Send him back to Eredivisie. What a turd. One of the worst signing in these last few years. Is Sanchez worse than him ?
 

cyberman

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Watching Pogba and Bruno every week has me expecting forward balls in certain situations but I see Donny turning back everytime.
Just isnt for us
 

tjb

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One step forward 2 back. Pogba Fred and VDB playing together for the first time this season as a trio. He definitely needs to be more positive and aggressive or he’ll be never make it here beyond a bench option
I don't think he has it in him to make it at any top club. His skills are far too limited for that. He may be class for a team in the Eridivisie, but he really does look out of his depth here. Says a lot about the Dutch League that he managed to look decent there. At least with Werner it can be attributed to the German high line, there's nothing that justifies how bad he's been. Kagawa at least looked like a good player, as did Mhiki, VDB looks as bad as Andreas Perreira.
 

red woppit

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both awful. DVDB can hide a lot easier - and he’s very good at that. I’m not a fan of Fred, and he’s been poor again tonight, but he doesn’t hide, he gets stuck in and competes. DVDB goes missing.
My god, you have it in for Fred so much its clouded any realistic thoughts you have about the match. A Fred mistake gives them an opportunity to shoot, and he struck it really well, that's the only mistake I remember him making.
 

ThehatchetMan

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People need to get off his back, the witch hunt is pathetic.

I think because he's had so few minutes that every cameo or appearance he does get he comes under extra scrutiny and people are expecting a match winning performance even when he's played out of position.

His last handful of cameos before today have actually been pretty good. Unless he's getting regular minutes though, he's going to struggle to hit the ground running.

I think he's had a very professional attitude this season and I hope he proves alot of people wrong next season.
 
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Pexbo

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Never seen someone who’s a Fan o’de beak so lacking in confidence.

I’ll get my coat.
 

Ali Dia

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I don't think he has it in him to make it at any top club. His skills are far too limited for that. He may be class for a team in the Eridivisie, but he really does look out of his depth here. Says a lot about the Dutch League that he managed to look decent there. At least with Werner it can be attributed to the German high line, there's nothing that justifies how bad he's been. Kagawa at least looked like a good player, as did Mhiki, VDB looks as bad as Andreas Perreira.
I think Werner looks much more like kicking on next season at this moment in time. I can’t write Donny off yet but I’m not sure. In his last few cameos he was very aggressive. He starts and then he just seems to think all he has to do is short pass the oppo to sleep. I think he’s actually confused about what he’s supposed to do in our setup. It didn’t help that Pogba and Fred were all over the shop too. They are 2 starters they should have been guiding him through the game but they were also very poor.
 

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He’s neat and tidy but that’s outweighed by him being painfully slow and surprisingly negative in his passing, always sideways and wastes opportunities to play it in behind in every appearance he’s had.

I still hold out hope that we can find a role for him here but he’s verging on being labelled shite, which isn’t true but you can forgive many for thinking he is.
 

DWelbz19

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People saying he's not good are ignorant He's quality but he's a system player
That’s just a very roundabout way to say he can only play well in very particular circumstances. That ‘system’ will never happen here, so what’s the point of him?