Dortmund watch | You love to see it

Pickle85

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I don't know and frankly I don't care. Probably you share what is certain already, and you don't share what's not. Because that's what this kind of statement is about. It's not a PR brief, but a legal minimum requirement.
Yeah but surely if add-ons were agreed, even if the terms for them haven't been met, they'd be disclosed to shareholders? It's in th club's interest to make the transfer terms look as favourable as possible to shareholders after all, no?
 

Chesterlestreet

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Why wouldn’t it mention it?
No idea.

However, what the German sources (Bild/Kicker) seem to be saying is that it's 85m plus possible bonus payments (depending on all sorts of factors) which could amount to a further 10m over time (he's being offered a five-year contract, it seems).

So, the add-ons - if they exist - don't seem to amount to that much, relatively speaking: 10m (Euro) possibly, if all conditions are met, stretched out over five years, etc.
 

pratyush_utd

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The ad-hoc statement that BVB put out doesn't say anything about addons either way, and why would it.
I'm refering to the accompanying reports of the two major German outlets both saying 85m€ rising to a potential 95m€.

https://www.kicker.de/wir-freuen-un...elbar-vor-wechsel-zu-manunited-808712/artikel
https://sportbild.bild.de/bundeslig...hsel-zu-manunited-perfekt-76938924.sport.html

Obviously, you're entitled to believe what you want to believe, if it makes you feel better. It's a fantastic transfer either way.
It's not my money so I don't care if it is 85m or 95m but Dortmund statement was quite clear about it. If you read what they released for Dembele you can instantly see the difference.

I just don't understand why Dortmund will withhold details from a statement meant for shareholders.
 

Poborsky's hair

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Eventually it is always about prestige, competition & money and most of the non german players who are capable of taking a step up will seek to leave for England or other big clubs. Dortmund is part of the system and are doing a great job but they can't keep their best players. They are doing well to identify these talents and lure them for some quick development & gametime. Mostly why Bellingham & Haaland joined is to improve steadily and they made a great decision. Going straight to a club like United could be risky and their agent wouldn't get sign up bonuses.

I think the price is fair in the current climate and shows both clubs in a good light in terms of PR. Dortmund have developed potentially one of the best players in the world (although I would be hugely surprised if they didn't) United got their player for a decent fee and certainly it's not a small fee, taking away nonsense money for Mbappé & Neymar from PSG and Barcelona. It's still one of the top transfers and a lot of cash to reinvest for Dortmund and since they are so good at it they will be fine I am sure.
 

bludsucker

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This is wrong, the solidarity payments due to City & Watford will be paid by United separately, Dortmund will pay the sell-on fee owed to City from the fee they received.
Not according to the article in the athletic. They say the solidarity payments and the payment due to city will be paid by United which will be from the total fee due to Dortmund. This might have been done in order to avoid forex costs and other bank fee.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Not according to the article in the athletic. They say the solidarity payments and the payment due to city will be paid by United which will be from the total fee due to Dortmund. This might have been done in order to avoid forex costs and other bank fee.
I do follow the Athletic as I am also subscribed and I did read the article, I know they are very reliable but I am more convinced with what James Ducker reported as per his tweet below:


Which makes more sense, United will be the ones to bear the solidarity fees to Watford and City.

BVB will pay City the sell-on fee, as this is what was agreed between BVB and City 4 years ago when Sancho first went to BVB
 

bludsucker

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I do follow the Athletic as I am also subscribed and I did read the article, I know they are very reliable but I am more convinced with what James Ducker reported as per his tweet below:


Which makes more sense, United will be the ones to bear the solidarity fees to Watford and City.

BVB will pay City the sell-on fee, as this is what was agreed between BVB and City 4 years ago when Sancho first went to BVB
Well it depends on who you believe. The athletic are a biy more reliable imo whereas the telegraph have often inflated the figures for our transfers and wages. So make what you will out of it. I for one believe the athletic as they correlate with the numbers i crunched.
 

Zehner

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You are right, it doesn’t matter now. It’s just that both years Dortmund came up with an initial asking price and last year they didn’t show any flexibility but this year they did. That behaviour is inconsistent with what Bundesliga fans were claiming last year that Dortmund will set the terms of the transfer and the buying club has no power - either pay up or move on. Isn’t it surprising that the hard stance they took just reversed itself completely in a year?
I think you're changing the goal posts here. The Germans in here were very confident that the transfer wouldn't go through after the deadline last year unless United paid a ridiculously high fee and they were right. That was primarily because the saga was dead in German media and it seemed as if the English counterparts kept it alive artificially to us. This season it was very different, most German posters thought the transfer was very likely, especially in the last few weeks after the first official bids by United. I still don't think they gave so much in for the exact reasons you mentioned. Two of the most reliable and well informed sports media in Germany have reported that there will be bonuses of around €10m which is perfectly in line with everything that has been reported throughout the whole saga. Dortmund finally lowering their asking price from €90m + €5m to €85m + €10m is much more likely to me than them just dropping their asking price around €10m within days after insisting on the initial sum for weeks or even months. To me that's much more unlikely than Dortmund deciding to not include the bonuses in the ad hoc message to the shareholders for whatever reasons.

I also tend to trust kicker and Sportbild more than English sources to be honest since they were proven right last season and they also had more information regarding the Havertz transfer last season as has been proven by now.

There are no addons, both german and british press reported that. For once all in agreement.
Serious question, could you link me the sources for that? I haven't seen any so far that explicitly state that there will be no bonuses. I even googled it and didn't find any. And especially the German media landscape seems sure that there will be bonuses.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Well it depends on who you believe. The athletic are a biy more reliable imo whereas the telegraph have often inflated the figures for our transfers and wages. So make what you will out of it. I for one believe the athletic as they correlate with the numbers i crunched.
Fair enough , either way it's an excellent signing
 

Sphaero

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You are right, it doesn’t matter now. It’s just that both years Dortmund came up with an initial asking price and last year they didn’t show any flexibility but this year they did. That behaviour is inconsistent with what Bundesliga fans were claiming last year that Dortmund will set the terms of the transfer and the buying club has no power - either pay up or move on. Isn’t it surprising that the hard stance they took just reversed itself completely in a year?
No, not really, actually, because they were key differences between both Summers, three off the top of my head:

1. Contract length. There is a notorably softer drop in fees between players with three years left on contract and between two yerars and one year. In the former scenario the negotation position of the seller is usually stronger for obvious reasons.

2. Timing. This Summer there was actually some urgency on Uniteds side to get the deal done rather sooner than later. Last Summer there was a hectic period right before the start of Dortmunds pre season camp, but the weeks or even months before then United was in their famous "preparing a bid"-phase. They might have thought that by dragging it out and maybe Sancho putting some pressure on Dortmund, the latter might eventually cave but that did not happen.

3. Valuation of the player: This might actually be the most important point. The few figures I saw last Summer coming from United were in the ballpark of what he goes for this Summer. That was just too far off from what Dortmund demanded then so negotiations never went into an advanced stage. I actually never really got the impression that United really tried to challenge Dortmunds resolve to deny a transfer.

We know exactly why they don't want to believe it. In much the same way as we knew what they were doing when they were in here playing billy big balls on the wum, and then again when they were crying foul about how mean and intolerant the caf is when they were called out for their wumming.

I've nothing against Dortmund or the Bundesliga, but there were a few heads in here who let themselves down last summer and up until very recently. There's no point in acting like it doesn't feel good to watch them squirm now with egg on their face.

You might even go so far as to say you love to see it.
I get that desire, but why not take it to the people who actually involved themselves in that manner instead of dragging all surrounding people with in it? It is even spreading further with time. It started with "the Dortmund supporters" went on to "the Bundesliga fans" and by now often enough it is just "the Germans", which is pretty funnny as there are quite a few German United supporter on here.

It has just gotten exhausting to have posts met with the same tired and lazy stereotypes over and over eventhough they don´t even have anything to do with the content of what was written. You could argue that this is just the nature of a football forum, but quite frankly if I just want to engage with one liners and catch phrases all the time I could also go to the echo chambers of Reddit or god beware the cesspool that is Twitter.

More often that not that has lead to a certain fatigue, where I actually see an interesting topic but don´t end up commenting on it because I think "Why bother?". Quite often another poster then voices similar thoughts and is met with exaclty the response I thought it would get. It is actually quite sad how predictable it has gotten.

It is funny actually, I would have thought that if one supporter base would have learned the value of sensible and differentiating discussion about football it would have been Uniteds after the fiasco that was the ESL. In these threads you had a loud minority championing this idea as the future of football instead of the abominiation it actually was. The vast majority was vehemently against it, but it would have been all too easy to use these posts as ammuniation to paint Manchester United and its supporter as poorly as possible.

The Caf has seen better times of football debate between United fans and opposing fans, I would like it to get back to that, because it made talking about football simply more fun.
 

diarm

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Two of the most reliable and well informed sports media in Germany have reported that there will be bonuses of around €10m which is perfectly in line with everything that has been reported throughout the whole saga.

I also tend to trust kicker and Sportbild more than English sources to be honest since they were proven right last season and they also had more information regarding the Havertz transfer last season as has been proven by now.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/kai-havertz.452222/post-25940128

Talk about changing your tune to suit the argument at hand. You lads are bloody shameless. :lol:
 

diarm

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I get that desire, but why not take it to the people who actually involved themselves in that manner instead of dragging all surrounding people with in it? It is even spreading further with time. It started with "the Dortmund supporters" went on to "the Bundesliga fans" and by now often enough it is just "the Germans", which is pretty funnny as there are quite a few German United supporter on here.

It has just gotten exhausting to have posts met with the same tired and lazy stereotypes over and over eventhough they don´t even have anything to do with the content of what was written. You could argue that this is just the nature of a football forum, but quite frankly if I just want to engage with one liners and catch phrases all the time I could also go to the echo chambers of Reddit or god beware the cesspool that is Twitter.

More often that not that has lead to a certain fatigue, where I actually see an interesting topic but don´t end up commenting on it because I think "Why bother?". Quite often another poster then voices similar thoughts and is met with exaclty the response I thought it would get. It is actually quite sad how predictable it has gotten.

It is funny actually, I would have thought that if one supporter base would have learned the value of sensible and differentiating discussion about football it would have been Uniteds after the fiasco that was the ESL. In these threads you had a loud minority championing this idea as the future of football instead of the abominiation it actually was. The vast majority was vehemently against it, but it would have been all too easy to use these posts as ammuniation to paint Manchester United and its supporter as poorly as possible.

The Caf has seen better times of football debate between United fans and opposing fans, I would like it to get back to that, because it made talking about football simply more fun.
You've lost me here. Where did I drag surrounding people into anything?

I think I was quite explicit in who my post was aimed at.
 

Zehner

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https://www.redcafe.net/threads/kai-havertz.452222/post-25940128

Talk about changing your tune to suit the argument at hand. You lads are bloody shameless. :lol:
Jesus, you people really can be a pain in the ass :lol: When you rip quotes out of context maybe make sure that they at least contradict each other.

I mean, what's your point exactly? That Sportbild is a shit source? Yes, it is. Did they prove to be better informed regarding the whole Sancho and Havertz sagas in last 12+ months? Yes, they absolutely did. This tells you more about the quality of your beloved Twitter ITKs than it does about Sportbild though. All those insiders put even more made up stuff out there than Bild reporters which is quite an accomplishment. Meanwhile kicker is as reliable as it gets and so are various other sources that speak of the includence of very probable bonus clauses and in this case Sportbild is in line with them. Funny thing is that the sources you ridicule were right in the Sancho and Havertz saga almost all the time. At the same time we're still waiting for any source of you guys that explicitly states that there will be no bonus payments at all.
 
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TrustInOle

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No, not really, actually, because they were key differences between both Summers, three off the top of my head:

1. Contract length. There is a notorably softer drop in fees between players with three years left on contract and between two yerars and one year. In the former scenario the negotation position of the seller is usually stronger for obvious reasons.

2. Timing. This Summer there was actually some urgency on Uniteds side to get the deal done rather sooner than later. Last Summer there was a hectic period right before the start of Dortmunds pre season camp, but the weeks or even months before then United was in their famous "preparing a bid"-phase. They might have thought that by dragging it out and maybe Sancho putting some pressure on Dortmund, the latter might eventually cave but that did not happen.

3. Valuation of the player: This might actually be the most important point. The few figures I saw last Summer coming from United were in the ballpark of what he goes for this Summer. That was just too far off from what Dortmund demanded then so negotiations never went into an advanced stage. I actually never really got the impression that United really tried to challenge Dortmunds resolve to deny a transfer.



I get that desire, but why not take it to the people who actually involved themselves in that manner instead of dragging all surrounding people with in it? It is even spreading further with time. It started with "the Dortmund supporters" went on to "the Bundesliga fans" and by now often enough it is just "the Germans", which is pretty funnny as there are quite a few German United supporter on here.

It has just gotten exhausting to have posts met with the same tired and lazy stereotypes over and over eventhough they don´t even have anything to do with the content of what was written. You could argue that this is just the nature of a football forum, but quite frankly if I just want to engage with one liners and catch phrases all the time I could also go to the echo chambers of Reddit or god beware the cesspool that is Twitter.

More often that not that has lead to a certain fatigue, where I actually see an interesting topic but don´t end up commenting on it because I think "Why bother?". Quite often another poster then voices similar thoughts and is met with exaclty the response I thought it would get. It is actually quite sad how predictable it has gotten.

It is funny actually, I would have thought that if one supporter base would have learned the value of sensible and differentiating discussion about football it would have been Uniteds after the fiasco that was the ESL. In these threads you had a loud minority championing this idea as the future of football instead of the abominiation it actually was. The vast majority was vehemently against it, but it would have been all too easy to use these posts as ammuniation to paint Manchester United and its supporter as poorly as possible.

The Caf has seen better times of football debate between United fans and opposing fans, I would like it to get back to that, because it made talking about football simply more fun.
Cracking post!
 

arnie_ni

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I have no idea what was said with Dembélé. But it wouldn't be an oversight as it's not an announcement of the transfer, just that a transfer is imminent.

The fee will be 85m € fixed rising to 95m € with addons.

As expected.
It's 85mil no add ons paid in installments. Reported everywhere including dortmund themselves
 

arnie_ni

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I've just realised all the German posters making the fake add ons etc up aren't even dortmund fans?

Wth is going on,n
 

Zehner

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I suspect you will only ever see what it is you've decided to see.
Mate, if you ever had any morale high ground you've lost it with that last few posts. I'm here to discuss football, not for politics.
 

diarm

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Mate, if you ever had any morale high ground you've lost it with that last few posts. I'm here to discuss football, not for politics.
:lol:

I love the way you're still preaching! Fair play to you - I'd be too embarrassed to keep leaning in for more but you've some chin on you.
 
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:lol:

I love the way you're still preaching! Fair play to you - I'd be too embarrassed to keep leaning in for more but you've some chin on you.
he’s got a normal chin like everyone else, albeit he thinks it’s bigger due to some artificial chin add-ons.
 

Sandikan

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I do follow the Athletic as I am also subscribed and I did read the article, I know they are very reliable but I am more convinced with what James Ducker reported as per his tweet below:


Which makes more sense, United will be the ones to bear the solidarity fees to Watford and City.

BVB will pay City the sell-on fee, as this is what was agreed between BVB and City 4 years ago when Sancho first went to BVB
How do Watford get a fee for a player that they haven't owned for 6 years, who is making his 3rd move since leaving them!?
 

Sandikan

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Clear as day. But the Sancho one also says that some contractual details are still open..

Anyway, congrats on the transfer, can't say I'm not jealous.
As a fan of a team who cruise the league, year in year out (9 in a row is it?), what do you think when a foreign big club takes one of your "rival's" (if we can call them that!) best players?

Relieved as it'll make your cruise to the league even more of one?
Or a bit gutted as you sort of half hoped for a more competitive battle?
 

hellhunter

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As a fan of a team who cruise the league, year in year out (9 in a row is it?), what do you think when a foreign big club takes one of your "rival's" (if we can call them that!) best players?

Relieved as it'll make your cruise to the league even more of one?
Or a bit gutted as you sort of half hoped for a more competitive battle?
Or gutted a quality player leaves the BL and cannot be harvested by Bayern later on
 

UDontMessWith24

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Clear as day. But the Sancho one also says that some contractual details are still open..

Anyway, congrats on the transfer, can't say I'm not jealous.
If a promising BL player doesn’t end up at Bayern I always assume it’s because they didn’t want him. Otherwise we know how it ends up.
 

bosnian_red

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How do Watford get a fee for a player that they haven't owned for 6 years, who is making his 3rd move since leaving them!?
Pretty sure the first developing club always receives a fee for every later transfer.
 
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How do Watford get a fee for a player that they haven't owned for 6 years, who is making his 3rd move since leaving them!?
I don’t know - but too many big clubs are sweeping up young talent from smaller clubs for peanuts, so I think it’s good for some money to trickle down.