Dummying Setpieces

[SmashedHombre]

Does it ever fool anyone, and more importantly does it ever really improve the setpiece? It always looks like it just disrupts the delivery to me. Admittedly it's been years since I last played football, but having someone running through your eye-line pretending to hit the ball and then you having to run up and smack it for real immediately after seems like a hindrance to me.

I mean we seem to absolutely love pointless dummies and our setpieces are usually atrocious.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Feels like this is one of those silly things we've been doing in every single game since LVG's first season, to no avail. Another one is having the corner taker raise both arms before taking the corner.

 

[Spiersey]

Not a a big fan of dummy's at set pieces but they are excellent when done well. Rangers u19s did a great one this week, completely did the defence and had a free header 8 yards out. Very rare to see it done well though.

 

[100]

Our corners remind me of not studying for an exam in school, and rocking up and trying to bullshit your way through it. The dummy is the exam equivalent of putting down a random formula to try and get a mark.

It's easy to tell which teams put effort into set pieces by demonstrating common sense, and a slight bit of belief. A lot has changed in football but the key attributes of a decent set pieces are largely the same - multiple players attacking a fast paced ball.

Unfortunately our freestyle approach tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Rozay]

It can make all the difference when done correctly. One step either way from the goalkeeper is all it takes.

 

[Sky1981]

Makes them looks like they're trying.

 

[Champ]

Forces the defending team to drop their line, that's the reason it's done.

 

[shaky]

You don't need to trick the keeper or defence if you just hit a good enough freekick in the first place. If you don't think you're capable of hitting a good enough freekick, you shouldn't be taking the freekicks.

 

[Bondi77]

The short corners annoy me.
If a professional footballer cannot deliver a ball to a certain area in the penalty box from a dead ball situation which we have identified to be a weakness of the opposition then he is not a footballer as far as I am concerned.
The only chance we have of scoring from a corner is hitting Maguire with a perfect delivery and no one seems capable in our team.
How Fred is anywhere near the ball in a set piece situation is totally beyond me.

 

[Rozay]

You don't need to trick the keeper or defence if you just hit a good enough freekick in the first place. If you don't think you're capable of hitting a good enough freekick, you shouldn't be taking the freekicks.

That’s a ridiculous take on it.

 

[steve zizou]

It can make all the difference when done correctly. One step either way from the goalkeeper is all it takes.

Look at our freekick at around 3.25. Ashley Young dummy sends Szczesny one way, giving Mata the split second gap to bury the freekick. I thought young deserved an assist for that.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

For direct free kicks, they make sense. The keeper can't see who is taking it because of the wall so giving him a bit of doubt of which way it will go can be effective when done well. If he takes a step the wrong way, then he's got no chance.

Never understood it for free kicks that are being delivered as crosses though. I assume it's to make the defensive line move but no one ever falls for it.

 

[Relevated]

The two hands or one hand for the corner thing is to signify a near post ball or a far post ball.

 

[Relevated]

For direct free kicks, they make sense. The keeper can't see who is taking it because of the wall so giving him a bit of doubt of which way it will go can be effective when done well. If he takes a step the wrong way, then he's got no chance.

Never understood it for free kicks that are being delivered as crosses though. I assume it's to make the defensive line move but no one ever falls for it.

Sometimes you pass to the runner and the defence is stumped but we don't do it well at all. I think it's one of those things in football that you do just for the sake of doing and you feel to yourself you've done something special, the only thing is that it's not important enough to be mentioned by the opposition that it didn't work.

 

[shaky]

That’s a ridiculous take on it.

Why is it ridiculous? Think of all the great set-piece takers we've seen in football down the years. How many of them relied on gimmicks to fool defences rather than just using their skill at striking the ball to take defences out of the equation altogether?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

That was great stuff.

 

[Jev]

Feels like this is one of those silly things we've been doing in every single game since LVG's first season, to no avail. Another one is having the corner taker raise both arms before taking the corner.

Pretty sure that's our secret code for "I'm gonna hit it straight at the first defender".

 

[Shane88]

 

[48 hours]

The two hands or one hand for the corner thing is to signify a near post ball or a far post ball.

Or in our case, a ball to a player stood 10 yards from the corner taker

 

[Rozay]

Why is it ridiculous? Think of all the great set-piece takers we've seen in football down the years. How many of them relied on gimmicks to fool defences rather than just using their skill at striking the ball to take defences out of the equation altogether?

You’re being narrow minded. It’s ridiculous to say ‘if you don’t think you can score without a dummy, don’t take the free-kick’. Every single type of goal scored has examples of the striker trying to gain an advantage by deceiving the goalkeeper. Be that from 30 yards or 12 yards, dead-ball or open play, 1v1s. The idea that you shouldn’t bother taking it on if you are going to throw a dummy in there makes little sense. As an attacker, you seek to gain any advantage you can. Beating a goalkeeper from 30 yards is not easy. It’s a lot easier if you can get the goalkeeper to shift his body-weight in the other direction first, it gives you a slight advantage. You still need the skill to find the top corner from 30 yards, but the keeper is less likely to save it. As I said, if strikers are trying to fake a goalkeeper from the penalty spot where it’s much easier to score, why not from further?

That’s just for direct free-kicks. As has been mentioned, when it’s a cross, the dummy often shifts the defensive line back a bit, reduces the chance of an offside etc.

 

[Maurice Setters Training]

Our corners remind me of not studying for an exam in school, and rocking up and trying to bullshit your way through it. The dummy is the exam equivalent of putting down a random formula to try and get a mark.

It's easy to tell which teams put effort into set pieces by demonstrating common sense, and a slight bit of belief. A lot has changed in football but the key attributes of a decent set pieces are largely the same - multiple players attacking a fast paced ball.

Unfortunately our freestyle approach tells you everything you need to know.

This.

Real lack of organisation at set pieces and, also, defensive marking. It is no wonder Maguire hasn’t scored any headers for us. 2 big black marks against Ole IMO.

 

[shaky]

You’re being narrow minded. It’s ridiculous to say ‘if you don’t think you can score without a dummy, don’t take the free-kick’. Every single type of goal scored has examples of the striker trying to gain an advantage by deceiving the goalkeeper. Be that from 30 yards or 12 yards, dead-ball or open play, 1v1s. The idea that you shouldn’t bother taking it on if you are going to throw a dummy in there makes little sense. As an attacker, you seek to gain any advantage you can. Beating a goalkeeper from 30 yards is not easy. It’s a lot easier if you can get the goalkeeper to shift his body-weight in the other direction first, it gives you a slight advantage. You still need the skill to find the top corner from 30 yards, but the keeper is less likely to save it. As I said, if strikers are trying to fake a goalkeeper from the penalty spot where it’s much easier to score, why not from further?

That’s just for direct free-kicks. As has been mentioned, when it’s a cross, the dummy often shifts the defensive line back a bit, reduces the chance of an offside etc.

I've seen no evidence to back up the idea that throwing dummies in a free kick situation is a good idea. It might look clever the odd time it comes off but I reckon it usually ends up also distracting the kicker enough to negate any advantage trying to be gained. I would be curious to see a success rate comparison between dummied free kicks and regular free kicks. It's certainly not a strategy that excellent free kick takers employ. You'll probably also find that the players with the best penalty conversion rates are the type of players who just step up and strike the ball instead of dicking about trying to be too clever.

 

[lsd]

Feels like this is one of those silly things we've been doing in every single game since LVG's first season, to no avail. Another one is having the corner taker raise both arms before taking the corner.

I have never understood the point of that

 

[thebelfastboy]

If it's a direct strike at good I can see the rationale in trying to shift the keepers footing or make the wall move, but when it's a cross into the box for people to attack it's a complete waste of what could be an additional person in the box

 

[Peter van der Gea]

What was that team that had the whole team dummy the freekick and the last guy buried it? I think they were Thai or Vietnamese

 

[Flanders Devil]

[]

That’s great, and shows how effective a planned free kick can be. Although, ironically (for this thread) I don’t think the dummy run made as big a difference than just a well planned and executed set piece.

 

[Bestietom]

Having 2 men standing over a ball for a free kick is stupid imo. Wouldn't he be better positioned to try and do something with the delivery than standing there wasted.

 

[klayton88]

The two hands or one hand for the corner thing is to signify a near post ball or a far post ball.

But 90% go near post first defender regardless.

 

[Bestietom]

Does it ever fool anyone, and more importantly does it ever really improve the setpiece? It always looks like it just disrupts the delivery to me. Admittedly it's been years since I last played football, but having someone running through your eye-line pretending to hit the ball and then you having to run up and smack it for real immediately after seems like a hindrance to me.

I mean we seem to absolutely love pointless dummies and our setpieces are usually atrocious.

Stupid, Next we will be sending 2 to take a corner. A waste of a man, and the coaches can't see this.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

What was that team that had the whole team dummy the freekick and the last guy buried it? I think they were Thai or Vietnamese

 

[Okey]

Dummies work if done well. Set pieces are about imagination, not rote routines for the sake of them. If you see a side that trains then properly, it's evident what they're trying to do. Our team way too often look like they don't really have a credible plan for the set pieces.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Having 2 men standing over a ball for a free kick is stupid imo. Wouldn't he be better positioned to try and do something with the delivery than standing there wasted.

No, because he isn’t meant to be in the box. Not everyone just piles into the box. Nor is he standing there doing nothing. He’s covering the exact position he’s meant to be whether he stands over the ball or not. Either way he’s covering space to mop up breaking balls or dropping to cover counters.

But aye, clearly the countless professional coaches haven’t realized this is a waste but you have.

 

[Rozay]

If it's a direct strike at good I can see the rationale in trying to shift the keepers footing or make the wall move, but when it's a cross into the box for people to attack it's a complete waste of what could be an additional person in the box

On the contrary, crossed free-kicks are the most dummied. Once the first player runs over the ball, the defensive line will 8/10 times break and drop deeper. You are then less likely to be caught offside firstly, and secondly, you simply earn a few extra yards as the whole play now takes place closer to goal. If a team lines up to defend on the edge of the box or outside, due to offside rule, you are highly unlikely to score with a header. A dummy shifts the whole play to the penalty spot.