A brilliant player from your team of old, Franck Ribery.
Eden Hazard | "It's time to enjoy life drinking beers"
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The issue is that boiling down attacking play to rare binary scoring outputs leaves a lot to be desired in terms of analysis. Again, you can't possibly argue that Hazard didn't play out of his skin if you watched those matches even if the simplistic recap of his stats said otherwise.
Personally, I will think Robben was more influential and if we have a tough game to play, I will look to Robben then to Ribery. Many times Ribery and Hazard seem to play like they are just there to enjoy themselves and not playing for a team goal which is to win. You don't need to cut the same player 5 times just to prove you are better when you can simply shoot early and score a goal
You can play out of your skin without being effective at it, Messi and Ronaldo have shown that you don't have to dribble except its absolutely necessary, A pass, A 1-2 will do a job more effectively than the feints, numerous stepovers
While Hazard and Ribery are on one extreme, Salah and Robben on the other extreme. The midpoint seems to be players like Neymar and Messi who can do both. dribble to entertain as well as shoot on sight
Defensive and midfield players are key even though they can't be measured by a simple statistic. I dont see why some forwards can't be the same. Firminho doesn't score much for Liverpool but he's obviously important for them.
What? Hazard's passing numbers have always been elite. Are you suggesting that Hazard was merely a dribble merchant?
Iniesta
He gets a pass because he was amazing during his peak (which I don't think was 2 seasons but it certainly wasn't long). Neymar is a top top player but at his best, Ronaldinho was better. Ronaldinho's best performances are probably among the finest the game has ever seen.
Iniesta is a midfielder
Firmino is the least important of the Liverpool attacking trio while Salah is the most important. That says it all that the numbers matter
What is this ? Why is he allowed to watch football ?
Scoring or assisting is not a prerequisite to being effective. Output and production is not limited to scoring or assisting. The player who scores and the player who assists are not necessarily the most important participants in a passage of play that leads to a goal. More broadly, the players who scored and assisted are not necessarily the best performers in a game of football. More broadly still, the players with the highest goal and assist numbers are not necessarily the best performers over a certain period of time nor are the necessarily the best players generally speaking.
Players absolutely should be praised for racking up goals and assists. The numbers can be used positively when talking about what a player contributes. These two little numbers don't encapsulate an entire game of football though. It is idiotic to think you can reduce a game to who has put the ball in the net, and who touches the ball last before that player. That tells you hee haw. So you absolutely should not use the statistics negatively - a player cannot be proven to have been poor, or be poor, because of their goal or assist tallies. And in comparing two players, all that can be said based on these particular stats, is that one player scores more or assists more than the other - a player cannot be proven to have been superior, or be superior, because of the numbers.
And was still the best player on the pitch, football works like that sometimes not always the person with the goal and assist who is the best performer.
I cant believe you have to explain that to him.
Switch Firmino for a traditional stat padding poacher and Liverpool (especially the 18-20 side) are nowhere near as good. There's a reason he's one of the very few survivors from the players Klopp inherited.
I remember the super cup in 2019 first half we contained them very comfortably but Firmino's introduction at half time totally changed the game. I have been hoping for years Klopp replaced him with a poacher because he felt it would "take them to the next level" (similar mistake to what we made bringing in Lukaku when we already had the answer with Havertz which thankfully we seem to be rectifying) but so far no such luck.
Fair enough.
I said his best seasons at Barca. 51 apps, 39 goals and 10 assists including 10 CL goals when they won the damn thing with him scoring in the final. 49 apps 31 goals and 25 assists the following year is quite something and matches any Ronaldinho seasons.
Yes. He would love to win the CL, be a Balon d'or contender and the like but he never was. always the best in a non contender in europe. Big fish and all
Sure. Costa has won multiple league titles in his career as top scorer. he even beat Ronaldo and Messi to titles with his goals. I am sure he is not as important, despite the fact he has more success than Hazard and Hazard has NEVER won a major league title without Costa but Costa has won without him. go off king
"His best seasons at Barca. 51 apps, 39 goals and 10 assists including 10 CL goals when they won the damn thing with him scoring in the final. 49 apps 31 goals and 25 assists the following year is quite something and matches any Ronaldinho seasons."
as an attacking player it is especially if you play AMC or in the front 3. When Hazard won the PFA he was 14 and 10. the other time they won the league he scored 16. that season he got 4 and 4 chelsea were nearly relegated so clearly it matters. He got 16 and 15 in 2019 which lead to his 100m move so clearly it matters
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He won the league with Lille, ya know. Technically he also won La Liga with Real Madrid two years ago. But "go off king".
Imagine actually thinking Diego Costa was more important to Chelsea than Eden Hazard. Have a word with yourself.
Switch Salah or Mane with a goal shy wing forward like Hazard/Ribery and they are not even title contenders
Liverpool is chasing a quadruple this season with very few input from Firmino. Of the Liverpool front 3, Firmino is the least impactful, And Jota has literally replaced him without the team missing a beat
If you are part of the front 3 in a 433, you need to deliver numbers In goals and assists. You would struggle to name an attacker in a front 3 who doesn't put up numbers. Football is about the goals scored not the number of passes. That is why Man City can dominate every metric on the field and fail to win a game if they dont stick the ball into the net. Its also why the transfer fees for goalscorers are higher than for anyone else
Kinda sad what’s happened to him. World class at Chelsea, idolised by fans. How can it go so horribly wrong?
Did he even have a good spell for Real Madrid? I feel like it fell apart as soon as he arrived. Genuinely keep forgetting he plays for them. Even bale seems more present
You said he’s better than Ronaldinho though also, no?
I'm talking big titles buddy. Don't care if you won in Greece or wherever Lille is. Yeah you better say "technically" since he played 16 matches in 2020 and scored one goal so was of little importance and fully supports my statement. He wasn't a key player to their win. Diego Costa is nearly ALWAYS the key player in his title wins and top scored in Spain with 27 league goals. that's why he plays every match and top scores.
back to you sir
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Ronaldinho is my favourite player ever. Thats what I will say. The 2 players are a bit different. Ronaldinho is more an attacking midfielder playing wide forward where as Naymar is a 9 playing wide forward. Ronaldinho is more the player you play through deeper in the field as he is a playmaker through and through and used more in the initial build up although Neymar can build attacks also.
As a German it is no surprise you are practical. These people have diminished the importance of attacking output and no longer care about goals nor assists as if this doesn't win matches. Firmino is overrated and Salah is clearly the best player who scores the most.
Defense it's key to win titles, as important as goals.
Again, how many World Cups Germany have won having a shit defense?
They crashed in group stage the last World Cup for conceding stupid goals to South Korea.
Look at Liverpool not winning shit until VVD came in.
PSG getting knocked out by Barca after winning 4-0 in the first leg, thanks to shit defending.in the second leg.
He was starting to gel and play well before he got The Injury. Nothing ever since.
He basically doesn't. He's been frozen out for a few months.Genuinely keep forgetting he plays for them. Even bale seems more present
Writing something in all caps doesn't make it true. Costa was not the key player in either league win with Chelsea. Hazard and Fabregas were more vital in 14/15, and Hazard and Kante were more vital in 16/17. Also you are honestly saying that Diego Costa was THE KEY PLAYER in Atleti's 20/21 title win, where he scored a grand total of 2 league goals? Hazard at least made 16 league appearances in 19/20.
Says a lot that you don't know where Lille is. Also apparently "nearly ALWAYS the key player" means 1 time from 4 league titles for Costa. Got it.
Where does it say he was Key in 2021? He was the leading scorer which is nearly always the key player. Cesc performed for half a season in 2015. In which title campaigns are the leading scorers not the key players? 1/10? And why could Hazard not win again when Costa left or didn't score loads......Costa beat Cristiano, Kross, Bale etc to a title and beat NEYMAR AND MESSI to a title as well as knocked them out the CL. they lost the final because he got injured. What Hazard do? Hazard is the hype player that the media get behind and create a narrative around. mostly a penalty king
They lost the final thanks to shit defending, first in a corner, then shit defending in open play during the extra time.
Shit defending lose games as well, not just missing a striker
He was limping the whole game. He leads from the front. They could barely attack properly and don't have the strength in depth so were tired. Real were much deeper. In 90 mins with healthy Costa it could easily go another way.
You said he's "almost always THE KEY PLAYER". That wasn't the case for 3/4 of his title wins.
There are plenty of title campaigns where the leading scorer isn't the key player. Was Ilkay Gundogan the key player for City winning the league last year? Of course not. Was Lukaku the key player for Inter? Evidently not as they haven't skipped a beat without him. Costa was the missing piece that took us from a good side to an elite side - but he was never our most important player.
Hazard couldn't win after Costa left because City went to another level with Pep and Liverpool did as well with Klopp. Also you are giving Costa a ridiculous amount of credit - arguably Diego Godin was just as important for that Atleti team in 13/14. And furthermore it's pretty evident that Simeone is the real engine driving Atleti - it's not like they fell off a cliff once Costa left.
Am I right in assuming you rated Lampard above Iniesta, Xavi, Zidane and Scholes on that basis?
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His brother said in an interview that he sees Eden in Madrid until 2024, that his career is already done, the family comfortable in the city, etc.
I hope he doesn't make us a Bale/Mariano and will try his luck elsewhere.
I guess it will be Newcastle and almost given away
I hope he doesn't make us a Bale/Mariano and will try his luck elsewhere.
I guess it will be Newcastle and almost given away
You do know football is more than just goals and assists right? I mean its pointless having this debate with you tbh. Ronaldinho was 10x the player Neymar ever was.
That's why I've always hated Balon D'ors going to the best attacking player. It's daft. Centre backs are as good as centre forwards.
Why is Salah more important than Firminho?
Its simple he scores more. Same reason Ronaldo was the most important part of BBC, Same reason Lewandowski is the best Bayern attacker, When you are part of that front 3, Your numbers matter a lot
Hazard had healthy goal and assist numbers, and the figures dip in 15/16 when Chelsea unravelled under Mourinho and he played through pain in his hip and therefore did not play as well - what of it?
Individuals need to contribute to the success of their team. Obviously you need to score goals in football. Teams, that is - teams need to score goals. Passing? Passing is all about scoring goals too. Of course attackers will score and assist - what arbitrary total do they need to reach in order to be 'putting up numbers'?
Again, the players who score or assist a given goal are not necessarily the biggest contributors to that goal. And again, a player having a higher number of goals and assists than another does not automatically mean he is the superior player, or the better performer over the period of time that he has gained those numbers.
Every team fails to win the game if they don't stick the ball into the net? And attacking players generally tend to generate the highest transfer fees not exclusively goalscorers.