England in India 2021

[ArmchairCritic]

"There was a time when England used to mistrust anyone who could reverse-swing the ball or bowl a doosra. Over time, as they have learned such skills, the scepticism has diminished. It's time to embark on a similar journey with turning pitches."

This is pretty much I said in a post above. They need to respect aspects of skills other teams possess required to win matches and not always scream foul when you cannot compete.

To be fair to this England side, they have just won 6 tests in a row on the sub-continent (yes, I know 5 of them were against Sri Lanka). There's been some bad experiences in Abu Dhabi, Dhaka and against, erm, Roston Chase but I think on the whole England are probably the best equipped team to take on India in India. The big issue is of course the lack of a top quality spinner but until England stop prioritising shorter format cricket for the peak of the summer, I don't think there will be too much development on the spin bowling front. I also don't think England have necessarily chosen their absolute best team for these conditions but I understand why they are rotating and I think Crawley, Sibley, Lawrence, Pope and Bess will be a heck of a lot better for these experiences.

The general reception of this test within the English media and the excellent point made by yourself, Dobell and Kimber about the English distrust of anything against the norms of the game that 'they' gave the world has been very thought provoking.

 

[NinjaFletch]

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Good article that people should give a read.

'There's no evidence to suggest this England side are suggesting anything of the sort. Indeed, they deserve some credit for reacting to some idiosyncratic umpiring with nothing more than rueful smiles. Nobody is suggesting any conscious bias, but we have seen enough in this match to remind us of the benefits of neutral umpires. If nothing else, their presence takes a toxic narrative out of the equation.'

The rest of the article good, but this is journalism straight out of the Daily Mail. Accuse the third umpire of being a cheat, if that's what you think he is, or call it incompetency if you don't. This wink wink nudge nudge, 'now I'm definitely not saying he was being biased towards India, but in not saying it I'm saying it' is beneath Dobell and feeds the exact 'toxic narratives' he's referencing.

 

[AshRK]

"There was a time when England used to mistrust anyone who could reverse-swing the ball or bowl a doosra. Over time, as they have learned such skills, the scepticism has diminished. It's time to embark on a similar journey with turning pitches."

This is pretty much I said in a post above. They need to respect aspects of skills other teams possess required to win matches and not always scream foul when you cannot compete.

Exactly. All these moaning won't make them improve. I would have said the same if it was India who were moaning. I am glad how India have improved their pace attack and we are able to compete even in pacey tracks.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

'There's no evidence to suggest this England side are suggesting anything of the sort. Indeed, they deserve some credit for reacting to some idiosyncratic umpiring with nothing more than rueful smiles. Nobody is suggesting any conscious bias, but we have seen enough in this match to remind us of the benefits of neutral umpires. If nothing else, their presence takes a toxic narrative out of the equation.'

The rest of the article good, but this is journalism straight out of the Daily Mail. Accuse the third umpire of being a cheat, if that's what you think he is, or call it incompetency if you don't. This wink wink nudge nudge, 'now I'm definitely not saying he was being biased towards India, but in not saying it I'm saying it' is beneath Dobell and feeds the exact 'toxic narratives' he's referencing.

It's a nothing piece really, no one from England actually expects India to produce non turners . The question mark has been raised about whether this pitch takes that to an extreme level or not . As you said the players have not said anything either. Root has taken the umpiring issues fine , can only imagine how badly Virat would have reacted in that situation

 

[SinNombre]

It's a nothing piece really, no one from England actually expects India to produce non turners . The question mark has been raised about whether this pitch takes that to an extreme level or not . As you said the players have not said anything either. Root has taken the umpiring issues fine , can only imagine how badly Virat would have reacted in that situation

Maybe Virat but the rest of the Indian team took it fine in Australia.

Lets look at the umpiring controversies from the Aussie series
a. Calling of no-balls for height. All the Aussie bowlers constantly targeted the Indian ones and had multiple overs where they bowled 3 or more bouncers. Only bowler to get called for intimidatory bowling - Shardul on Cummins.
b. DRS, India overturned 8 decisions in one of the tests. Obviously, some of them couldn't be overturned due to umpire's call.
c. Lyon checking with the umpires if shot was offered or not before taking the review.

The issue is that all the countries essentially have very few elite umpires.

Let's not forget that Jason Holder had the same complaints after the series in England. No one in the media was insinuating that the English umpires in that series were corrupt.

 

[prateik]

What's the big deal? India were shit away from home because we struggled against fast bowling and didnt have good enough pacers.. we worked on it and got better.
Of course we are going to prepare the pitches to suit us at home. that has always been the case.

I remember Bairstow complaining that the pitches at the WC werent suited to the England side because their strength was power hitting.. the pitches after that were all very flat.

Stop whining.. get better.

 

[zing]

'There's no evidence to suggest this England side are suggesting anything of the sort. Indeed, they deserve some credit for reacting to some idiosyncratic umpiring with nothing more than rueful smiles. Nobody is suggesting any conscious bias, but we have seen enough in this match to remind us of the benefits of neutral umpires. If nothing else, their presence takes a toxic narrative out of the equation.'

The rest of the article good, but this is journalism straight out of the Daily Mail. Accuse the third umpire of being a cheat, if that's what you think he is, or call it incompetency if you don't. This wink wink nudge nudge, 'now I'm definitely not saying he was being biased towards India, but in not saying it I'm saying it' is beneath Dobell and feeds the exact 'toxic narratives' he's referencing.

So you’re not George Dobell after all..

 

[roonster09]

What a way to lose wicket.

 

[prateik]

There is no point trying to be defensive here. 250 is fine. go for it ..

 

[mav_9me]

When India used to lose away to England /Australia /NZ/ SA regularly I don't think Indians ever complained about those pitches. As far as I can remember criticism was always that we should do better, play the bouncy fast pitches better.

 

[croadyman]

Still going to get beat but WOW how good has Foakes keeping been this morning

 

[mav_9me]

BTW how good is Ben Foakes? Brilliant keeping so far. Is he the no. 1 keeper for England?

 

[croadyman]

BTW how good is Ben Foakes? Brilliant keeping so far. Is he the no. 1 keeper for England?

Well certainly doesn't deserve to be dropped for Buttler on this showing

 

[prateik]

I hope the Motera pitch is similar.. for both tests.
we can pick an extra batsman and just see who can play spin better.

 

[bleedred]

Another intersting take.

The bias against spinning pitches
A look at many of the reasons that we react as we do when a pitch spins on day one.
https://wickets.substack.com/p/the-...paign=post&utm_medium=email&utm_source=reddit

 

[prateik]

Ultra edge didnt show a spike when it hit his leg.. is it broken

 

[gajender]

Good to see Indian commentator's finally calling a spade a spade with all the hypocrisy about the pitches from Ex English cricketers and some bitter Australians as well.

 

[prateik]

Ashwin sounded so surprised when he asked - Is he taking?

 

[KM]

That's the worst review I've ever seen.

 

[Rams]

Good to see Indian commentator's finally calling a spade a spade with all the hypocrisy about the pitches from Ex English cricketers and some bitter Australians as well.

I don’t think this pitch is good cricketing pitch. It’s a stinker. It’s a lot easier to spin the ball on a crumbling pitch than it is to seam or swing the ball in favorable conditions. However, that doesn’t mean it’s unfair. Both teams have to deal with the same conditions. England’s spinners have to bowl more accurately and England have to bat better against spin. India have outplayed England in this test, deal with it. Everybody should stop moaning and get back to the game.
It’s a shame because the series so far has been played in a very good spirit, there’s clearly a lot of respect between these 2 sides and the 2 captains also get on.

 

[KM]

Lords pitch in 2018 where we played. Great cricketing pitch designed to last five days I think. The whining from the ex-english cricketers has been unbelievable.
To be fair they asked Graham Thorpe about it(england's coach) and he said nothing about the pitch, think this current English team is a lot less whiny about the things.

 

[KM]

Class fifty by Kohli.

 

[roonster09]

389 runs lead is way too much, should just go after bowling, play till team tea and should declare.

 

[zing]

389 runs lead is way too much, should just go after bowling, play till team tea and should declare.

I'd like to see us put on another 300 and end talk of the pitch tbh

 

[Kazi]

389 runs lead is way too much, should just go after bowling, play till team tea and should declare.

Kohli’s not declaring while he’s not out

 

[KM]

I'd like to see us put on another 300 and end talk of the pitch tbh

It'll never end tbh.

 

[MDFC Manager]

It'll never end tbh.

Will probably only get shriller if England are still batting on the 5th day.

 

[KM]

389 runs lead is way too much, should just go after bowling, play till team tea and should declare.

No need of declaration. Whole two days left.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Looks like it gets a little bit easier to bat as the ball gets older, a bit like the Dukes ball in England, get to over 30 with the bulk of your middle order in tact and you'll be ok.

 

[Mani]

Once batsmen apply themselves its good for batting, like any sub continent pitch it will hold on for three days and would turn on fourth and fifth day, toss was crucial.

 

[Mani]

Kohli’s not declaring while he’s not out

Two days and session to go why would he do that.

 

[roonster09]

No need of declaration. Whole two days left.

I have to work

 

[roonster09]

I'd like to see us put on another 300 and end talk of the pitch tbh

That's also true.

 

[zing]

Foakes is ridiculous. Superman. Best keeper in the world?

 

[Skills]

Kohli out now, think England might have to bat a bit today

 

[KM]

Nah it definitely looked like it was going down leg , very unlikely you see that given for an Indian opener. This is not a dig at Indian umpires but there is a reason that ICC came up with neutral umpires in the first place

Like quite a lot of your posts in this thread, this one also aged like milk after the Kohli dismissal.

 

[TheGame]

Exactly. All these moaning won't make them improve. I would have said the same if it was India who were moaning. I am glad how India have improved their pace attack and we are able to compete even in pacey tracks.

The England team are not moaning, it’s pundits and others in some circumstances.

 

[SinNombre]

So England get another marginal umpire's call today. I am guessing all is well in terms of the media whinging about them for now.

 

[SinNombre]

Like quite a lot of your posts in this thread, this one also aged like milk after the Kohli dismissal.

Or the Axar dismissal, both of which looked not out to the naked eye.

 

[KM]

Or the Axar dismissal, both of which looked not out to the naked eye.

Forgot to pay them in second innings clearly