England NT of the 80's, early 90's

[golden_blunder]

why didn't they achieve more?

With the likes of Shilton, Woods & Seaman in goal

defenders from; Des Walker, Terry Butcher, Mark Wright, Pearce, Samson, Stevens

midfielders from: Robson, Gazza, Platt, Webb, Hoddle, Waddle, Barnes

forwards from: Beardsley, Lineker, Le Tissier, Clive Allen, Trevor Francis

etc etc

England truly had some world class talent. Its criminal that they didnt make more of a dent on the world stage.

 

[rocks13]

why didn't they achieve more?

With the likes of Shilton, Woods & Seaman in goal

defenders from; Des Walker, Terry Butcher, Mark Wright, Pearce, Samson, Stevens

midfielders from: Robson, Gazza, Platt, Webb, Hoddle, Waddle, Barnes

forwards from: Beardsley, Lineker, Le Tissier, Clive Allen, Trevor Francis

etc etc

England truly had some world class talent. Its criminal that they didnt make more of a dent on the world stage.

I think your list of players almost answers your own question.

That group is drawn over almost 20 years and you've still included the likes of Woods, Wright, Stevens, Webb, Le Tissier and Allen who weren't even close to being world class.

The truth is that England then are much the same as they are now - a decent side with some good players who you expect to reach the quarter finals in big tournaments.

 

[Gio]

​

More of a golden generation than the one which just expired, but they still made good on their talent in reaching the semi-final in 1990 and matching a very strong West Germany team. Pushed Argentina close in 1986 as well.

 

[Cutch]

Late eighties early nineties consists of 3 (88,90,92), 4 max major tournaments, one of which they made the semi final of goin out on penalties. That seems fair enough for that group.

 

[golden_blunder]

I suppose im not just talking in terms of trophies but in terms of performances of individuals as well

Look at the likes of Hoddle & Waddle. Both had times playing abroad, Waddle was voted the 2nd best OM player of all time when he was wrecking havoc across European football. Then look at the likes of Barnes, tearing up defences for Liverpool. Yet, none of them really made an impact on International football?

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Seaman
Neville Rio Campbell Cole
Beckham Scholes But Cole
Owen Sheringham /Heskey

Was another great squad

 

[Burrow]

The same exact problem every single England-squad has suffered from; Overrating their own players and putting too much pressure on their team.

 

[gormless]

I'd say the Euro 2004 squad had probably a better mix of players than that. Well the first team anyway. Once Rooney got injured, and the insistence on playing Scholes on the wing, the back ups just weren't good enough. Yes, Darius Vassell I am talking to you

 

[ArmchairCritic]

I'd say the Euro 2004 squad had probably a better mix of players than that. Well the first team anyway. Once Rooney got injured, and the insistence on playing Scholes on the wing, the back ups just weren't good enough. Yes, Darius Vassell I am talking to you

Ah man, Sven's subs were horrible too. Rooney, Owen and Scholes off for Vassell, Heskey and Hargreaves to protect a 1-0 lead against France? Scholes and Gerrard off for Hargreaves and Phil Neville to protect a 1-0 lead against Portugal? Christ. Why not bring on Joe Cole for Rooney and put Scholes in behind Owen in the Quarter against Portugal, why Vassell?

 

[Crustanoid]

They had more bollocks and achieved a hell of a lot more potential than the 'golden generation', who were actually just a bunch of overhyped egos with no desire at all to do anything on the international stage

 

[I'm always right]

We had a great run in 1990 though when we had most of those top players playing.

Robbo, Gazza, Platt, Lineker, Hoddle etc.

A bit of luck in that semi and we might just have won the thing. Maybe had Robbo not got injured earlier in the tournament we'd have had that little extra vs. ze Germans.

 

[Widnes]

the 1990 team was agreat side and had they got through the semi I think they would have won it, it's hard to say what the 86 team may done if it wasn't for that goal in the QF against the argies.

 

[DixieDean]

In the 1988 Euro's England were embarrassingly bad. In 1990 England were unlucky in the semi final but had huge luck in getting there. What I'm trying to say is that England in that era were not that good.

 

[Claymore]

the 1990 team was agreat side and had they got through the semi I think they would have won it, it's hard to say what the 86 team may done if it wasn't for that goal in the QF against the argies.

Were they though? I don't recall the 1990 tournament as was too young but looking at it 'on paper' they drew to Ireland, drew to Holland and beat Egypt in the group but still topped it!!!! Then they beat Belgium 1-0 after extra time and Cameroon 3-2 after extra time, losing to the Germans on penalties in the semi final.

Looking back its easy to look at the now legendary names but we've always got at least a one or two top players in the squad, its that they never play together or the right way. Look at Spain, they are the best, mainly because its practically half a team who play and train together all year round!!

Doubt we'll ever see that kind of understand, all we have is it with Cleverley and Welbeck right now.

 

[davisjw]

Still can't get over the failure of 94. That would have been a good side as well.

 

[SittingBull]

Not really. I think the press tends to overrate the England NT, even those in Asia where the premier league has a large and loyal following. If we were to be honest, every golden generation is a load of tactically, technique naive and overrated players who have never cut it at the highest level consistently. The only playerw who can truly hold his own in world football was Scholes, who was criminally under-utilised. Every "golden generaton of English football", we can easily point to 10 national teams who are much better.

 

[deltakaye]

England 1990 was hugely overrated. The three group matches were dreadful, arguably some of the worst football of the entire tournament. Belgium was evenly matched. And England were outplayed by Cameroon but two Lineker penalties got them through. The reputation of England 1990 was based on outplaying West Germany in the semis.

 

[Gio]

England 1990 was hugely overrated. The three group matches were dreadful, arguably some of the worst football of the entire tournament. Belgium was evenly matched. And England were outplayed by Cameroon but two Lineker penalties got them through. The reputation of England 1990 was based on outplaying West Germany in the semis.

They were lucky to get to the semis given a slightly less anarchic Cameroon would have out them out. Still like in 1996, they also played very well against a more than talented Dutch side, while Belgium were an excellent team who had a better case for international under-achievement.

 

[thegregster]

Around 2004-2006 they should have done much better. But lack of depth and no goalkeeper of note cost them. Also the Gerrard lampard mess and playing Scholes out of position showed a manager who didnt make the right calls.

In that Era they could call upon:

Neville,Rio,Campbell,Terry,Cole, Hargreaves,Gerrard,Lampard,Scholes(till 2004), Beckham,Rooney,Micheal Owen.

12 very good players. Much better options that today. Any world class players? Scholes for sure and they messed him about. Rio as well and the rest were all top players even if they wernt world class. But when Owen and a half fit Rooney were the only striking option of real quality in 2006 it showed what depth they lacked.

Roy Hodgson would kill to have option like that.

 

[lysglimt]

I still feel that Englands back-4 around 2006 was the best in the world.

 

[Thisistheone]

For a decent insight into the OP's question, I recommend 'Anatomy of England'. Found it enjoyable and explains what happened at Italia '90 pretty well.

Luck (or lack of) definitely has a big part to play. But I think the late 90's group were better. Euro '96 was the best England have played in years and years.

 

[Gio]

For a decent insight into the OP's question, I recommend 'Anatomy of England'. Found it enjoyable and explains what happened at Italia '90 pretty well.

Luck (or lack of) definitely has a big part to play. But I think the late 90's group were better. Euro '96 was the best England have played in years and years.

All Played Out by Pete Davies is one of the best books written on football and captures Italia '90 brilliantly.

 

[Thisistheone]

All Played Out by Pete Davies is one of the best books written on football and captures Italia '90 brilliantly.

Nice! Will check it out, cheers.

Do you like Jonathan Wilson? Found him the best on football so far.

 

[Gio]

Yeah Wilson's pretty good, particularly on the evolution of tactics in previous eras. Some decent pieces in the Blizzard if I remember rightly.

 

[Thisistheone]

And his Guardian page, where you can scroll back to previous articles he's done on tactics etc. Very insightful.

 

[Marcosdeto]

in 1986, germany, argentina, france, brazil and belgium had better teams than england
in 1990, germany, italy and brazil had better teams than england
in 1994, didnt even qualify for the world cup