It's a tough one to answer, and depends where you are as a club, Arsenal for example after having spent the better half of 20 years playing entertaining football would rather in the last 10 years have the 3 points and win things, where as us, right now suffering through Moyes football, then Van Gaals, then Mourinho's style, we're becoming increasingly desperate to see some semblence of entertaining football.
Entertainment value or just get the 3 pts?
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The most important thing is to establish once more the winning culture, win Premier League and challenge for Champions League. No matter what. And then, after that, we can play like fecking kamikaze if we want.
3 points in the early stages is just fine cos it’s about getting the job done. If we’re still having to pick one after 2 full seasons then you have to wonder why.
Mourinho has indicated that we’re beginning to work on building quicker attacks now (done it for a whole 2 days apparently) so here’s to hoping that it’s the start of something rather than a cheap tactic to deflect blame on to the players.
Mourinho has indicated that we’re beginning to work on building quicker attacks now (done it for a whole 2 days apparently) so here’s to hoping that it’s the start of something rather than a cheap tactic to deflect blame on to the players.
Everybody is just jumping on the bandwagon of bashing Mourinho and acting like spoilt brats. No wonder we are the most hated fans in the country and now starting to see who the real fans are. Lets get some perspective, we are 2nd in the league.
Feck me how do other fans cope when teams don't win things for years.
Feck me how do other fans cope when teams don't win things for years.
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Right now results are all that matters, after Moyes and LVG getting back to winning trophies is all that matters
Saturday wasn't pretty but got the job done
Last Tuesday was horrific
Two Saturday's ago we were exciting in the first half and tactically spot on in the second
Point being I dont buy into this we're always awful to watch nonsense
Saturday wasn't pretty but got the job done
Last Tuesday was horrific
Two Saturday's ago we were exciting in the first half and tactically spot on in the second
Point being I dont buy into this we're always awful to watch nonsense
Entertaining football for me is the highest priority. After the last four or so years i don't care to much about trophies. I would like to watch a game where I'm shouting and screaming at the screen. Getting up all hours of the morning to watch games like Brighton is really; well it's just shithouse!
I understand there's going to be games where we grind out a boring draw against our nearest rivals. But most of our games we should be attacking and trying to score as many goals as we can. To me attacking is the best form of defense. Over the fifty odd years I've supported United I've enjoyed wins, draws and losses. As long as the side went out and gave it a RED hot go.
Another point about not playing entertaining football is how many supporters are getting turned off around the world after games like Brighton. I know a lot of you would say, well stuff them they're not real supporters, but didn't the Glazier's use to sell us as having 600,000,000. Great for sponsorship negotiations. I wonder how many it is these days?
There's a lot of threads on OT's atmosphere. When I'm watching on tv down under it sounds alright to me when entertaining football is being played.
So overall trophies are not my main priority; entertaining football is and anyway we're Manchester United; trophies will come.
I understand there's going to be games where we grind out a boring draw against our nearest rivals. But most of our games we should be attacking and trying to score as many goals as we can. To me attacking is the best form of defense. Over the fifty odd years I've supported United I've enjoyed wins, draws and losses. As long as the side went out and gave it a RED hot go.
Another point about not playing entertaining football is how many supporters are getting turned off around the world after games like Brighton. I know a lot of you would say, well stuff them they're not real supporters, but didn't the Glazier's use to sell us as having 600,000,000. Great for sponsorship negotiations. I wonder how many it is these days?
There's a lot of threads on OT's atmosphere. When I'm watching on tv down under it sounds alright to me when entertaining football is being played.
So overall trophies are not my main priority; entertaining football is and anyway we're Manchester United; trophies will come.
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It took a home loss to Seville to realize we weren't attacking as he's been claiming
A club with our resources, which hasn't won a title since 2013, needs to pick one.
Once we win the title, then we can start getting picky, but until then, we desperately need to collect 3 points in every match and beat the will-financed MCFC team.
It is astounding that some people think that we (a team which has finished 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th in the last 4 seasons) should expect 3 points and entertainment in almost every match.
Jose was brought in to put us back on the map, ie. get us back to winning ways and that is what he must do.
Once we start winning big trophies, we can worry about the issue of entertaining football, though something tells me that when we are good enough to win the league and CL, our players will play with more swagger and the fans will enjoy the games a little more. At present, Jose does not deem our players capable of cutting loose and winning matches, which is why he makes them play with discipline.
Are people here asking for that in almost every match?
We're talking about averages here surely (over the season).
I am glad that Jose is tackling this head on and in our last match, when the players were not in the mood for fast attacks, he rollicked them.
I think he wants to see fast counter attacks (such as those seen at Madrid) and at present we just aren't seeing this.
I believe they are.
As an example, we won our last match and this place went into meltdown because it lacked entertainment.
Only a few matches ago we played C.Palace which was super entertaining. And before that we played LFC. The first half was great. The 2nd half not so much.
People don't want entertaining football in 50% of our matches. They want to see this in almost every match...which I think is unrealistic, especially given that we haven't been good since SAF left. Some may argue that even in SAF's final season, we weren't that great to watch. We ground out results, relying on RvP to score wonder goals, from very few chances.
Bit simplistic but fair enough. Think it's more there was little response from an awful/unacceptable result in the CL. Happened earlier in the season as well after the City defeat which puts into question how motivated the players are (which is linked to the manager).
You're right that we weren't playing scintillating stuff under Ferguson during his later years - I think most people know/remember that. But we were usually (again on average) a positive side that took it to the opposition more often than not.
For me it's not just about entertainment. I think even though we're not doing too badly for what we've got, I'm pretty certain we're no where near as optimal as we can be, for the players we have. We don't create enough chances and we don't work goalkeepers enough - both of those are things people associate with a positive, exciting football team.
And we should have that. We're bloody loaded. feck what City are doing. If Liverpool can do it, so can we (with a better defence).
Tbf our attacking play has always lacked systemic patterns, you can see it in how we always aimlessly pass it around from side to side before punting it long or going around the sides for a full back to put in a shit cross - even when we were blitzing teams scoring 4 earlier in the season. Almost all of our creativity came through Pogba then (in a midfield 2 would you believe!!) and most of our goals came late in games, after having laboriously scored the first and forcing teams to come out leaving space.
I found it odd that Mourinho chose the Brighton game to lay in to the players for our poor build up. We’ve almost always played like that during his tenure and he’s never displayed taking particular issue with it. We’re a passive, reactive team rather than one that imposes it’s own style and we’ve no problem ceding the lion’s share of possession to the opponent even at Old Trafford. The philosophy seems to be to ‘control the game without the ball’ and take advantage of any mistakes with rapid counter attacks. I can’t imagine how the players are supposed to drop almost 2 years of indoctrination at the drop of a hat and begin to dominate the ball with quick build ups.
Like I said, at least it’s entered his thinking now and I’d personally be more happy to see us develop this till the end of the season, even if it means we don’t win a token F.A cup playing shite and finish 3rd as opposed to 2nd. It would show intent and I feel we’d end the season with the fans full of optimism, which right about now, we really fecking need tbh. But then again I can’t speak for everyone I guess; there are plenty who are not that bothered about forever snoozing through matches as long as we win. Because Manchester united’s trophies count towards our own personal accolades in life.
Edit: I probably worded that last bit rather poorly. Of course United winning stuff feels great, I’m not denying that. What I meant to say is that surely there has to be a bit more to it though, stuff that gets you off your seat when watching the game. That’s why we watch football, right? Winning trophies and excitement don’t have to be mutually exclusive, especially for a club of our stature and resources as @Varun pointed out on the first page.
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Whenever we win no matter how ugly, it put a smile on my face, even to the very least a sigh of relief.
Playing wonderfully but losing... ouch... it'll hurt, especially on big game.
Playing wonderfully but losing... ouch... it'll hurt, especially on big game.
I am happy with 3 points when I just check the results... when I have to sit through the game I want to be entertained
Would say that just about figures.
It can be coexist.
As Varun said, a club like Utd should always aim for both. Given the importance of global marketing I doubt it can be good for business to be known as the ugly sister of football. Not as bad as losing of course but trying to sell the club world wide is easier with a style that is appealing.
3 points imo, for entertainment I have other outlets.
Of course you can have both but it’s a process and we are still building the team. It also makes it more difficult with our backline. The football and results will get better.
United should put a magic show or something like that before every match so that our fans are 'entertained'.
3 points. First half of last season we battered teams especially at home having 30 shots but failing to score. It was frustrating, more frustrating than playing bad but winning.
From now until the end of the season, I don't care about style. It's all about results now on in.
Next season the style has to change. City and Liverpool are streets ahead of us and that is a joke considering the amount of money we have spent.
That's all on Jose.
Next season the style has to change. City and Liverpool are streets ahead of us and that is a joke considering the amount of money we have spent.
That's all on Jose.
They should print shirts with this.
The man is not for changing, that his MO. Second place will justify to him that his approach is correct and same again next year.
Sir Matt Busby allegedly put entertainment as a big priority, United was for the fans a moment away from their job. In essence it hasn't changed, football is a game that you play to have fun, that you watch to be entertained. The only real problem isn't entertainment vs 3pts, it's that some weirdos are somehow entertained by seeing a w on premierleague dot com.
It should be both.
But if I have to pick one, it will be 3 pts. Beyond a point, it is difficult to get 3 pts on a consistent basis without being slightly entertaining. There is no glory in playing super attractive football and losing
But if I have to pick one, it will be 3 pts. Beyond a point, it is difficult to get 3 pts on a consistent basis without being slightly entertaining. There is no glory in playing super attractive football and losing
A bit silly, would you rather be rich or full of bliss? I’d take both! We should not be deciding between 3 points and entertaining football, we want both. Only one team delivers on that front these days and that’s City. They play by far the best football in the country and win almost every game. United are second in the league, it’s not like we’ve only won 1-0 following close encounters since 2017.
I have seen lots of games this season where Tottenham, Arsenal and of course Chelsea have played absolutely dull football. I have also seen us play wonderful football many times, but due to the media spotlight our struggles are highlighted, whilst a dull game by Tottenham interests exactly nobody from the media. It’s how the world works for the big sharks.
The start of the season was great, then we have looked very lethergic going forward ever since. God knows why? The answer is Mourinho of course, but I can’t explain why we have good from pretty good to pretty awful with the same players and setup (seemingly). We’ve beaten Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea and Liverpool whilst we’re at it - games where I couldn’t care less about the approach as long as we win.
Who cares the most about the attacking football award? Liverpool and Tottenham, clubs and fans that seldom lifts any trophies - so there’s that. However, we need to fix things - we can’t have this ghost present at all times, there is no reason for Pogba, Martial and Sanchez to be playing boring football.
I have seen lots of games this season where Tottenham, Arsenal and of course Chelsea have played absolutely dull football. I have also seen us play wonderful football many times, but due to the media spotlight our struggles are highlighted, whilst a dull game by Tottenham interests exactly nobody from the media. It’s how the world works for the big sharks.
The start of the season was great, then we have looked very lethergic going forward ever since. God knows why? The answer is Mourinho of course, but I can’t explain why we have good from pretty good to pretty awful with the same players and setup (seemingly). We’ve beaten Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea and Liverpool whilst we’re at it - games where I couldn’t care less about the approach as long as we win.
Who cares the most about the attacking football award? Liverpool and Tottenham, clubs and fans that seldom lifts any trophies - so there’s that. However, we need to fix things - we can’t have this ghost present at all times, there is no reason for Pogba, Martial and Sanchez to be playing boring football.
Americans have cheerleaders for a reasonUnited should put a magic show or something like that before every match so that our fans are 'entertained'.
Bit of a weird one, these people that only care about a win and winning the league should they be labelled glory hunters? Does make you wonder what they would be up to if say we were 10th a couple of seasons in a row. Or would they just bite their lip and grind it out.
I get the impression they seem to think the folks who aren’t chuffed with Jose demand 4/5-0 victories every week when that isn’t the case at all. People want to win, but a 1-0 will be fine, it’s just how the game is played, if it’s fast and adventurous with good defending, with players who move off the ball and look like they know what they are doing, full of confidence, just playing the game we love with a smile.
Personally I want us to win, but I want us to at least make an attempt at playing decently because I’m finding these big victories in recent times just soulless and empty. UEFA Cup, victory against Chelsea and Pool Just didn’t feel like it should.
I get the impression they seem to think the folks who aren’t chuffed with Jose demand 4/5-0 victories every week when that isn’t the case at all. People want to win, but a 1-0 will be fine, it’s just how the game is played, if it’s fast and adventurous with good defending, with players who move off the ball and look like they know what they are doing, full of confidence, just playing the game we love with a smile.
Personally I want us to win, but I want us to at least make an attempt at playing decently because I’m finding these big victories in recent times just soulless and empty. UEFA Cup, victory against Chelsea and Pool Just didn’t feel like it should.
The obvious answer is both, we should be focussing on playing attractive football and getting the 3 points. At the end of the line the objective is winning titles, so as long as you get the titles the end justifies the means, I'm sure if we won the League and the Champions League while playing the boring football we are playing right now none of us would be complaining, playing attractive football is the cherry on the cake, but if we are not getting titles then it's pointless to continue playing this shitty football style, I will much prefer ending up in 4th place playing like liverpool/spurs than ending in second playing like we are right now.
I feel that the football is sometimes dull because of the poor decision making on the pitch. Wide players have the chance to take on their opponent and get to the byline then turn round and pass it back. Players in midfield drop back slowly to receive the ball then pass it back- rarely turning and looking for a pass forward. Our crossing for the vast majority of the time is rubbish. How much of that is down to the manager I don't know.
However, it is so much better than LVG. Last on MOTD seemingly most weeks. I remember one game where we needed a goal with only a few minutes remaining and the defenders just stood around passing the ball to each other, not even a 'lump it forward' attempt. The ref blew his whistle and that was it. Week in, week out it was awful.
No team is going to play scintillating swashbuckling football every half, but we are doing better. There have been fun games to watch this season, quite a few.
However, it is so much better than LVG. Last on MOTD seemingly most weeks. I remember one game where we needed a goal with only a few minutes remaining and the defenders just stood around passing the ball to each other, not even a 'lump it forward' attempt. The ref blew his whistle and that was it. Week in, week out it was awful.
No team is going to play scintillating swashbuckling football every half, but we are doing better. There have been fun games to watch this season, quite a few.
Winning, is entertaining. You can win 3-1, 1-0, or lost 1-3 by a bunch of schoolboy going for glory. Some people say Liverpool's rollercoaster is better, only because they are NOT a Liverpool supporter having to suffer those set-back.
I think entertainment isn't just winning in style, but the individual game itself. Playing teams who sit back can be boring, but i've found United more entertaining than not entertaining. Maybe i'm easily entertained who knows...
It's very hard to win most games and not be entertaining. I think winning the match changes perception and if we won lots of games and were top of the league, our perception changes.
I think because we support Man United we're hypercritical, bar City, Liverpool and Spurs, I don't find many teams in the prem entertaining and even with Pool and Spurs its not every game that its exciting.
I think now we live in a highlights culture and we see the best bits of other teams and become overly critical of our own team.
We've never been the worlds most exciting team, its been a long long time when we can say Man United most exciting team in the world.
The whole entertainment angle is interesting angle to beat Jose with but i've enjoyed games this season, though some games we've had to grind.
It's very hard to win most games and not be entertaining. I think winning the match changes perception and if we won lots of games and were top of the league, our perception changes.
I think because we support Man United we're hypercritical, bar City, Liverpool and Spurs, I don't find many teams in the prem entertaining and even with Pool and Spurs its not every game that its exciting.
I think now we live in a highlights culture and we see the best bits of other teams and become overly critical of our own team.
We've never been the worlds most exciting team, its been a long long time when we can say Man United most exciting team in the world.
The whole entertainment angle is interesting angle to beat Jose with but i've enjoyed games this season, though some games we've had to grind.
While I feel that we’re not even in the top 4 most entertaining sides in the league, I still believe that we’re the second best team in the league, due to factors such as our fairly strong defence and plentiful top players.
Winning is always nice for my soul. No matter if ugly or entertaining.
If it comes to losing, I´d rather see us losing 2-3 while playing entertaining and trying than playing boring shitty football and still lose (like vs. Sevilla)
If it comes to losing, I´d rather see us losing 2-3 while playing entertaining and trying than playing boring shitty football and still lose (like vs. Sevilla)
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm not bored by counterattacking football (either fast breaks or long balls). I also enjoy watching good defending, and was spoiled over the years with Ferdinand, Vidic, Stam, Irwin, Keane etc. Perhaps it's because I grew up watching Football Italia; where Maldini, Cannavaro, Nesta & Thuram were considered every bit the equal of Baggio, Zola, Vierri & Batistuta (apologies if there's some spelling issues). I love watching great saves & a goalkeeper psychologically owning a striker. Of course I also love defence splitting passes, great moments of skill to create a chance, brilliant dribbling, and incredible goals.
The only times I really hate watching is when a team doesn't play like a team, or when it becomes about something other than winning the game. The reason for dribbling, slide tackling, through-balls, pressing on mass... when these things are done to win the game I'm entertained. Just as I'd rather watch boxing than WWE, I want to watch players play as a team to the best of their ability, following a game plan they believe can win them the game.
So I'd choose the 3pts, with "entertainment" second. Because I want the team to play to win, because that for me, is entertainment. It's got absolutely nothing to do with bragging rights.
The only times I really hate watching is when a team doesn't play like a team, or when it becomes about something other than winning the game. The reason for dribbling, slide tackling, through-balls, pressing on mass... when these things are done to win the game I'm entertained. Just as I'd rather watch boxing than WWE, I want to watch players play as a team to the best of their ability, following a game plan they believe can win them the game.
So I'd choose the 3pts, with "entertainment" second. Because I want the team to play to win, because that for me, is entertainment. It's got absolutely nothing to do with bragging rights.
You like wasting 90minutes of your life then admiring United’s football kit?
Look at the entertaining 0-0s we had last year
Points in the bag!
Points in the bag!
I want both. But being a fan isn't always about what you want. It's about the story of getting there.