Eric ten Hag Sackwatch

[TheNewEra]

So our success under SAF was all down to the Glazers then?

This is the point you're trying to make.

The owners are important, but they're not managing the team on the field.

No but since the Glazers enter the club they haven't invested a penny in the likes of the stadium.

Under SAF we had continuity and good coaches, but since SAF retired we have other aspects of the game we didn't have before.

Sports science and sports phycology was in its infancy. Carrington was opened in 2001, the last stadium extension was May 2006.

17 years and feck all done to the footballing side, still no DOF we are miles behind other clubs.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

Managers not the problem, the owners are.

Just like Jose wasn't a shit manager either. We have idiots running the club, running the entire infrastructure into the ground.

We are a decade behind other clubs. And those 1% differences add up across the board.

The Glazers won't spend a single penny on the club, we can continue to blame players and the manager but the clubs a shell of itself.

The entire club is rotten while they stay. We can continue to change managers, buy players. Other clubs like Newcastle, City, Liverpool, Villa with good owners will continue to invest and we will continue to fall behind.

Under the Glazers ownership we've gone from 1st, to 2nd, now to 4th to 6th because of what other owners have done for their respective teams.

None of this is on ETH, on Ole, on Jose or LVG.

Everyone knows and wants the owners out but they do not coach the players!

The rot started in the last couple of seasons under Fergie, we played pretty uninspiring stuff and got by through key individuals, this has been the way ever since. None of the managers since have been able to implement a consistent winning style of play and have generally all spent a lot of money on average players, or good/great players and simply played them in the wrong positions.

Why is ETH not playing 2 holding midfielders and insisting on them staying there and not roaming wherever they want?
How do players like Bruno and Rashford who’ve played together for years not have any sort of chemistry?
Why are our wingers and full backs not playing as a pair and helping each other out?

The manager/coaches and players have to take responsibility for that.

 

[redcucumber]

Really can't believe we're here already. Is Moyes the only one who beats him for brevity, assuming he gets sacked in the very near future?

 

[ShamrockD]

Since we could not afford players in the summer, I suppose we cannot afford 15M compensation to Erik due to FFP.

 

[redcucumber]

So our success under SAF was all down to the Glazers then?

This is the point you're trying to make.

The owners are important, but they're not managing the team on the field.

SAF was successful in spite of the Glazers because he was the greatest of all time who had already won it all. Anybody coming into present day United is doomed from the start. That much is fecking obvious at this point ffs.

 

[gaffs]

Yeah I think it's clear the players aren't giving it their all for him now which kind of puts the writing on the wall. It sickens me this same group for the most part will get away with it but then I think how can we actually fix what is happening here and it's by writing off this season. We don't have the players for the system we want, that's on ETH/Murtough/recruitment in general so if we're going to play direct bring in someone as interim who is hands on and coaches an aggressive elite press with direct football. Flick is free, Hasenhuttl is free, that nutter Marsh is free. None of them are good enough long term (Flick aside maybe) but we need to get an identity and become hard to beat again. Currently every team fancies themselves against us.

What is the system that we want?

This is big issue for me. It has never been clear. He has said not the Ajax system, yet he has 8+ players with Dutch league experience.

Even if Murtough and co doesn't understand the players required for the system, ETH should, and his signings have failed him.

Whoever comes in next, needs to have Premier League experience. ETH bought in players he thought could cut it in the PL. They cant.

 

[KD6-3.7]

This season has potential to be worst then anything we’ve seen from Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole and Ragnick especially if we don’t have the money to even sack Ten Hag. A bottom half of the table finish is entirely plausible.

 

[TheNewEra]

I get all of this but you really think investing in club's infrastructure is going miraculously change our performances on the pitch? The players are not responding to the coach anymore and the only viable option at this current moment in time, based on the circumstances is to replace the manager.

I agree, but the point is the infrastructure does matter. We don't really have a modern footballing structure around the club and the owners are the ones that sign off on that.

The Glazers just sit in Florida and have zero interaction with the managers.

We can replace the manager all we like but nothing is going to change. Until the Glazers go this is going to be the state of the club.

Sure sack ETH, get the new up and coming manager. Maybe get a little bounce but look 12 months down the line and itll be same old united.

 

[matherto]

He had nothing to say in the post-match interview.

No answers.

Just get gone.

 

[PTSTSL]

If these results were unlucky solid performances with losses due to a slight lack of quality due to injuries, then give him the season.

Three 3nil defeats at home by the 2nd November? Is taking the piss.

We need higher standards.

Get your coat Erik.

 

[TomSkalle]

They dont even look like they are able to score a single goal.
Completly lost and clueless..
He put on all the best players the last 30 min and it didnt even get better.

I mean, all they have to do is lay low and play counterattack fotball, and we loose by default.

ETH must go.
Its time.

 

[Jericholyte2]

The players he brought himself are arguably even worse than the ones he inherited so allowing him to just get rid of the squad and replace them with new players is kind of pointless.

I’m not suggesting keep things as they are. We should have a stable structure above the manager and a transfer team that he’s a part of to decide transfer targets.

But try and make me a manager that could get a consistently winning team relying on the likes of Rashford, Bruno, Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Martial, McT?

Name a manager who could do a good job with these frauds?

 

[2 man midfield]

Upon further look, you are correct. OptaJoe looking like idiots missing that.

Nah I got it wrong, we played West Ham away in between.

 

[Gavinb33]

I've said this before but for 3 seasons in a row every poster on here if they were and Arsenal fan would be calling for the managers head and now look at them last season and into this.

The 1st sign of any trouble you all want to sack the manager, it will never get better unless we stick with a plan and see it through Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Woodzy]

Time to go. Ole didn’t get a pass for doing well the season before and nor should he.

 

[VP89]

This season has potential to be worst then anything we’ve seen from Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole and Ragnick especially if we don’t have the money to even sack Ten Hag. A bottom half of the table finish is entirely plausible.

Nah Ole was still the worst. I will never forget being thumped 4-0 by a relegated side in the league

We didn't create shite today but I guess we ran. Under Ole it was comfortably worse. Recency bias is always real though.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

When do we play Galatasaray Away?

In a few weeks. Kick off will be every ten minutes.

 

[Delano]

An interesting question is... will he realistically be sacked pre Ratcliffe?

If he's taking over the football department, I don't see how it's attractive for him to spend over £1bn without a say on structure or the next manager.

It's a really dire state.

 

[bosnian_red]

I've said this before but for 3 seasons in a row every poster on here if they were and Arsenal fan would be calling for the managers head and now look at them last season and into this.

The 1st sign of any trouble you all want to sack the manager, it will never get better unless we stick with a plan and see it through Rome wasn't built in a day.

There is trouble, and there is having the big any half decent opponent record that Ten Hag has level of trouble.

 

[VP89]

I've said this before but for 3 seasons in a row every poster on here if they were and Arsenal fan would be calling for the managers head and now look at them last season and into this.

The 1st sign of any trouble you all want to sack the manager, it will never get better unless we stick with a plan and see it through Rome wasn't built in a day.

Youl get a poster telling you that's a one off.

Maybe it was, who knows. Wel find out with ten hag soon enough.

 

[bosnian_red]

An interesting question is... can he feasibily be sacked pre Ratcliffe?

If he's taking over the football department, I don't see how it's attractive for him to spend over £1bn without a say on structure or the next manager.

It's a really dire state.

Yep that's the thing - we shouldn't be touching anything until Ratcliffe comes in. Don't waste any more money. Leave it all to the next people.

 

[jderbyshire]

I wanted ETH in the job, but he's lost me entirely this season.

As for the bolded: Constant humiliations vs rivals. A GD of -1 over our last 37 games. Our performances since the cup final. Our start this season. A clear regression in performances compared to a year ago. No progression in our style of play. Awful recruitment by him. He seems completely incapable of constructing an attack that is top level. I could go on and on.

But I would argue everything was going quite well until the Glazers put the club up for sale and the uncertainty dragged on and on.

He's had the Greenwood situation, Sancho, etc to deal with as well as a sport science department that can't keep half the squad fit at any given moment and yet still no resolution to the ownership situation.

I just don't see how anyone can succeed under these conditions.

Just seen Shay Given smirking when he was told Varane is "ill" - obviously there's a fall out there that I guess is being kept behind closed doors.

There needs to be leadership from above. I agree Ten Hag's transfers have been shite - he had good technical directors above him at Ajax with Van Der Sar and Overmars. Here he's got accountants, bankers and Darren Fletcher. Klopp doesn't have full say over players at Liverpool... I don't even think Pep does. Ten Hag should never have been able to sign Antony for £80m but no one was there to prevent it.

He needs to be at least given a chance under competent leadership.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

I've said this before but for 3 seasons in a row every poster on here if they were and Arsenal fan would be calling for the managers head and now look at them last season and into this.

The 1st sign of any trouble you all want to sack the manager, it will never get better unless we stick with a plan and see it through Rome wasn't built in a day.

So what is the plan? Can you describe how it translates to our tactics on the pitch? Pep would not get much out of this bunch but he doesn't sign 85m Dutch wingers.

 

[VP89]

An interesting question is... can he feasibily be sacked pre Ratcliffe?

If he's taking over the football department, I don't see how it's attractive for him to spend over £1bn without a say on structure or the next manager.

It's a really dire state.

Doubt we can afford to sack him to be honest.

If there was ever a trial opportunity to test the whole "rome wasn't built in a day" theory it's probably now. Likely too exp to sack him and the new structure that's tipped hasn't yet taken place.

They can do that this season, sound out and agree on the successor, and monitor ten hag in tandem. Max they likely lose is CL football and European football. Not like they would stand much chance with an interim anyway.

Potential upside high if he turns it around and progressed, though it looks more bleak as games tick by.

 

[the_cliff]

I've said this before but for 3 seasons in a row every poster on here if they were and Arsenal fan would be calling for the managers head and now look at them last season and into this.

The 1st sign of any trouble you all want to sack the manager, it will never get better unless we stick with a plan and see it through Rome wasn't built in a day.

That's Arsenal this is Manchester United.

No Manchester United manager will survive finishing 8th twice in a row and rightly so. In fact no United manager will survive finishing 8th once.

 

[THE ZOL]

All of this blaming the owners and club structure is a currency of limited validity that keeps enabling Ten Hag’s lack of accountability. Ten Hag cannot control what happens above him, but do you know what he can control? What happens on the pitch.

Yet, I am genuinely questioning his tactical understanding of football. There are so many tactical issues; but I will only focus on the main one.

The 3-1-6 has not been working out since the first game of the season. The 1 is too isolated. It doesn’t matter if it is Eriksen, Casimero or Amrabat. It could be prime Busquets and the DM in this system would look awful. It is no surprise that we keep conceding goals either from: cutbacks, transitions and turnovers in the build-up because the passing angles to and for the 1 DM are cut off.

The infuriating thing is that Ten Hag could fix this so easily either by inverting one of the full-backs or playing a double pivot.

He needs to be sacked immediately. It can’t get any worse than this. While another rebuild is not ideal, it is unfortunately necessary.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Yep that's the thing - we shouldn't be touching anything until Ratcliffe comes in. Don't waste any more money. Leave it all to the next people.

I will rather be relegated than let ETH spend another pound. He can have 10 pounds to spend in the megastore. That is it.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I will rather be relegated than let ETH spend another pound. He can have 10 pounds to spend in the megastore. That is it.

To buy Onana a keeper kit that fits.

 

[TheNewEra]

All of this blaming the owners and club structure is a currency of limited validity that keeps enabling Ten Hag’s lack of accountability. Ten Hag cannot control what happens above him, but do you know what he can control? What happens on the pitch.

Yet, I am genuinely questioning his tactical understanding of football. There are so many tactical issues; but I will only focus on the main one.

The 3-1-6 has not been working out since the first game of the season. The 1 is too isolated. It doesn’t matter if it is Eriksen, Casimero or Amrabat. It could be prime Busquets and the DM in this system would look awful. It is no surprise that we keep conceding goals either from: cutbacks, transitions and turnovers in the build-up because the passing angles to and for the 1 DM are cut off.

The infuriating thing is that Ten Hag could fix this so easily either by inverting one of the full-backs or playing a double pivot.

He needs to be sacked immediately. It can’t get any worse than this. While another rebuild is not ideal, it is unfortunately necessary.

At this point ETH is as good as gone, I think we can't deny that.

The point is no matter who takes his place the same issues will persist.

 

[edgecutter]

I've said this before but for 3 seasons in a row every poster on here if they were and Arsenal fan would be calling for the managers head and now look at them last season and into this.

The 1st sign of any trouble you all want to sack the manager, it will never get better unless we stick with a plan and see it through Rome wasn't built in a day.

I don't see a plan, and that should be very concerning.

That said, this club picking a new manager with the structure that is in place will only continue causing problems.

 

[tomaldinho1]

What is the system that we want?

This is big issue for me. It has never been clear. He has said not the Ajax system, yet he has 8+ players with Dutch league experience.

Even if Murtough and co doesn't understand the players required for the system, ETH should, and his signings have failed him.

Whoever comes in next, needs to have Premier League experience. ETH bought in players he thought could cut it in the PL. They cant.

The DM with two 8’s

 

[Judas]

I just hope this current regime don't get to pick another manager, save us Ratty.

 

[Rooney24]

Still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until we can get our first choice (or at least settled) back four in the pitch.

We are missing Luke Shaw more than I ever imagined.

While it’s not going in a good direction at the moment I don’t think its time for the chop just yet.

 

[Gavinb33]

I don't see a plan, and that should be very concerning.

That said, this club picking a new manager with the structure that is in place will only continue causing problems.

The last bit is the key here we could and have got any number of managers over the past decade we gone for UK manager, continental philosophy, serial winner, club legend etc etc they have all failed in one way or another but another change and the new man is going to succeed?

 

[golden_blunder]

Do we really need 2 sack threads? Use the sack or keep thread