Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

[Redstain]

No serious ownership can be that stupid to not take into account the way United have been stylistically playing and performing on the pitch since around March 2023.

I think it's naivety to a large degree but changing people in the hierarchy isn't suddenly going to make a manager become competent. Regardless of what Berrada and co do it's the same manager that's leading training sessions, choosing the match squad and providing the instructions before a game from their own assessment of how to approach specific fixtures.

It feels like a similar trajectory with Liverpool and Brendan Rodgers, Liverpool changed some of the hierarchy around and the backroom staff under the same manager yet they still produced the same results.

INEOS real success will be the actions they take to improve upon ETH. I think it's pretty much set in stone unless in a few months Erik suddenly becomes one of the best coaches in the league, because that's what it will take for him to be deemed successful at a club the size of United with the resources available.

 

[Denis79]

What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.

I think most, pundits and fans are surprised how poorly he has performed in the PL. Don't think there were many who predicted it to be as bad as it is.

 

[crossy1686]

I'm pretty sure it'd be the most impossible managerial appointment you can think of.

People said the same about Benitez joining Everton or Chelsea. I'm not saying it will happen or it could, but you need to rule out the possibility of it happening by at least asking the question instead of assuming it won't happen.

 

[golden_blunder]

There's probably a thousand reasons why this is close to the single most unlikely "signing" in the entire footballing world, and if you can't see that I must reevaluate my second sentence. Should Liverpool call Alex Ferguson and say "Hey we have a good thing going here, why don't you join us?"
Unless you also think there is a world where that could happen, I don't know what to tell you.

Read my post. I’m talking about having a conversation.

 

[JPRouve]

Will keep a look out. I’m so disillusioned with him, I’m not really taking in games on a tactical level because I don’t believe in anything he’s trying to do anymore.

To be clear I'm not saying that it is what will happen but how it should happen. And I myself don't believe in him because I don't understand how he doesn't see the issues or maybe how he repeatedly fails to teach his idea if the issue is solely execution. Within our system I don't think that required changes are massive, it's a serie of small adjustments that haven't happened since 2022.

 

[RedRover]

How not to run a football club. It’s a complete circus.

Just sack the man and get an alternative in since you’re clearly completely unconvinced by him considering you spent weeks sounding out alternatives before deciding to stick with him - and preferably do it silently and without briefing the media every 15 minutes?

I’d assume this sort of approach which involves a) micromanaging the coach’s every move and b) briefing the media every morning on your current feelings about the coach can’t be conducive to convincing a decent alternative to take up the job either.

Correct. This does nothing for INEOS reputation with the fans. They either decided to stick with him because he won one game, or because you couldn't decide whether any of the other options were good enough. Either scenario is concerning.

 

[crossy1686]

Klopp will be fecking up his whole legacy at Liverpool if he joins us. He will never do that, for obvious reasons.

Many managers have fecked up their legacies in the name of money and a promise of a bigger legacy elsewhere

 

[RedRover]

Sort of. But in last years thread one of the most bogus of many bogus reasons given for why ETH deserved more time was because Wilcox and Ashworth would 'rescue our football' and force ETH to coach a better style and change his tactical approach.

Completely oblivious to the fact that technical and football directors are not tacticians or coaches. They dont devise how the team plays. They influence the 'game model' only by choosing managers and coaches who have the playing philosophy they want. And then signing players who also fit that style.

Which is why Wilcox wanted ETH sacked, and why Ashworth will want him sacked, if he doesnt already.

Exactly. What's the point in having a Manager / Head Coach if they're not managing or coaching?

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I think we should cut top Management some slack ( that is Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox etc) they have said openly, they were not involved in keeping ETH around.

So in keeping ETH, the decision rests solely on Ratcliffe,Blanc, Brailsford, Recce the Directorship level of Ineos.
And true to it, they are not football people. So like Glazers they made a monumental error.

We can excuse the Ineos team, as they needed to make the decision early and bite of the luck that ETH won't be as bad as he was last season.


But now, the dilemma is there must be a power struggle on the decision of either to keep the manager or not. You can be sure the management team, the football people, are shocked by how we are playing now are probably assessing why ETH was kept and the director level team wouldn't want a scenario where they fluked the first instance of keeping the manager.

And going forward, will the Ineos people gave out power to management team to pull the trigger of manager without a Veto from them.

In more ways than one, we are the point of success or failure. Or if we assume our problems then we will remain stuck here forever.

So let's see if, Ineos will trust the judgment of Berrada and Ashworth and accept their mistep.

 

[SungSam7]

As Dan Ashworth said in an interview, you can't keep swapping out managers with different styles and expect the club to be successful soon after.

Maybe the reason ETH kept his job was that they couldn't find a suitable manager to match the style they want and gave him a shot after another window.

I could be wrong, not sure but I'd agree with Ashworth anyway.

 

[despairingfool]

They should sack him now and say they want a change of approach. Decisive, quick, act now Ineos.

 

[Shark]

As Dan Ashworth said in an interview, you can't keep swapping out managers with different styles and expect the club to be successful soon after.

Maybe the reason ETH kept his job was that they couldn't find a suitable manager to match the style they want and gave him a shot after another window.

I could be wrong, not sure but I'd agree with Ashworth anyway.

If the style isn't working in English football, and results of said style is the club and it's brand being dragged through the mud, why would you persist? It's not like we have Arene Wenger when he was delivering CL football every season. It's unambitious, but in that case I kind of understand why Arsenal stook with him for his style. It was delivering some level of results.

ETH isn't even on that level.

 

[JPRouve]

As Dan Ashworth said in an interview, you can't keep swapping out managers with different styles and expect the club to be successful soon after.

Maybe the reason ETH kept his job was that they couldn't find a suitable manager to match the style they want and gave him a shot after another window.

I could be wrong, not sure but I'd agree with Ashworth anyway.

It only makes sense if two things are true at the same time. The current manager has a very peculiar style and the squad is built with specialists due to that style.

Neither of these things are true for us, our current style is very common at all levels. There is nothing special with being a fast transition team that uses a mid block in defense, it's the vanilla equivalent of Football.

 

[Footyislife]

The decision to fire him is not that simple. Clearly injuries have had an impact. The issue with TenHag is that he clearly isn't a coach who excels at maximizing the talent he has.

Is that necessary if there is the right squad around him? If he has a good squad can he deliver? That's the question Dan & INEOS will be asking themselves.

Clearly work still needs to be done with the squad with Rashford, Antony, Casemiro. Why bring in a new manager and set them up for failure?

It's a shrewd calculated move by INEOS that I would also do, even if in my heart of hearts I knew TenHag isn't the level of manager we need.

 

[Blood Mage]

As Dan Ashworth said in an interview, you can't keep swapping out managers with different styles and expect the club to be successful soon after.

Maybe the reason ETH kept his job was that they couldn't find a suitable manager to match the style they want and gave him a shot after another window.

I could be wrong, not sure but I'd agree with Ashworth anyway.

I've yet to see evidence that Ten Hag even has a style. If high pressing and sharp transitions is what we want then there are plenty out there who can do that. Nagelsmann, Rose and Iraola are three examples.

 

[RedRocket9908]

As Dan Ashworth said in an interview, you can't keep swapping out managers with different styles and expect the club to be successful soon after.

Im not really sure this is true though, look at Chelsea for example who last 3 titles were all won the season after sacking a manager and replacing him with one with a different style.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Wasn’t this what the post season review was all about? Surely a whole season is a big enough sample size to determine whether or not this managers style is the way forward or not? We’re now at risk of writing off yet another season while the folk in charge dither about for months before inevitably sacking him mid way through the season. He’s now in his 3rd season, he isn’t suddenly going to change up and start playing a completely different brand of football.

 

[Blood Mage]

Wasn’t this what the post season review was all about? Surely a whole season is a big enough sample size to determine whether or not this managers style is the way forward or not? We’re now at risk of writing off yet another season while the folk in charge dither about for months before inevitably sacking him mid way through the season. He’s now in his 3rd season, he isn’t suddenly going to change up and start playing a completely different brand of football.

The excuse will be that Berrada, Ashworth and Vivell weren't there to make the decision. We definitely weren't in constant communication with them. The truth is that our flashy new team of experts dropped a massive bollock here.

 

[lex talionis]

Klopp will be fecking up his whole legacy at Liverpool if he joins us. He will never do that, for obvious reasons.

It’s not going to happen anyway, but if Klopp did take the job and won major trophies, his legacy would be stratospheric. But it ain’t gonna happen.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Wasn’t this what the post season review was all about? Surely a whole season is a big enough sample size to determine whether or not this managers style is the way forward or not? We’re now at risk of writing off yet another season while the folk in charge dither about for months before inevitably sacking him mid way through the season. He’s now in his 3rd season, he isn’t suddenly going to change up and start playing a completely different brand of football.

It's been 3 games, even if it gets to 10 games season isn't over. Look at Chelsea who ultimately ended up finishing above us despite spending good periods of time in the bottom half of the table.

The excuse will be that Berrada, Ashworth and Vivell weren't there to make the decision. We definitely weren't in constant communication with them. The truth is that our flashy new team of experts dropped a massive bollock here.

I mean they literally weren't there to make the decision. Ashworth has openly said that.

 

[NK86]

We played a more defensive brand of football under Mourinho & Ole, and look where that got us. And yes, the scatter gun approach to buying players which we’ve seen for the past decade has resulted in a squad not fit for a big club like Manchester United. That’s not exempting Ten Hag from criticism, but describing the reality that any manager at the club will have to deal with.

The manager has had to face issues but he seems to be making it worse with his style of football. That’s not getting the best out of his resources but being too stubborn to not try and get the best of what is available to him.

 

[GoodTimes]

Imagining finishing 8th with a negative goal difference and realising things have to get even worse in order for a change to happen.

 

[In Absentia]

brailsford and blanc are the ones who primarily made the indecision in the summer, with advice from Wilcox (who wanted ETH sacked)

Coincidentally the two Ineos board members who are responsible for Ineos sport doing so badly at everything they try.

We can only hope the only people making football decisions from now on are Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada. Ratcliffe should only be acting on the advice of those 3 or we definitely won’t get anywhere.

Has it been reported that Wilcox wanted Ten Hag gone?

Now that Berrada’s here, I think Ten Hag’s on shakier ground. Wilcox is his man.

 

[CtrlAltDeLigt]

The poll is now 83% in favour of sacking. The same poll was around 65% when he won the cup, in favour of him staying.

3 games at the start of the season shouldn’t dictate the heavy investment and the trust we’ve shown towards him. Atleast waiting till we are 7-8 games in to get a fair idea whether this is going towards something good or not.

Not like we are anyways winning the league, if we get a suitable replacement with 30 games left, we can still hope for top 4.

 

[stevoc]

Did we? I don't think so, at least under Ole we scored more goals and we had some good periods. We played more conservative football but that was to our strength. I certainly don't think we're playing more attacking football now. We're pressing higher but that doesn't translate in anything other than tennis matches.

Some people think pressing = attacking. Pressing is defending further up the pitch.

 

[RedBanker]

The poll is now 83% in favour of sacking. The same poll was around 65% when he won the cup, in favour of him staying.

3 games at the start of the season shouldn’t dictate the heavy investment and the trust we’ve shown towards him. Atleast waiting till we are 7-8 games in to get a fair idea whether this is going towards something good or not.

Not like we are anyways winning the league, if we get a suitable replacement with 30 games left, we can still hope for top 4.

Bravo!! That's the spirit.

 

[stevoc]

Why?

He was the Liverpool manager for almost a decade and seems very connected to the club.

 

[MadDogg]

The poll is now 83% in favour of sacking. The same poll was around 65% when he won the cup, in favour of him staying.

3 games at the start of the season shouldn’t dictate the heavy investment and the trust we’ve shown towards him. Atleast waiting till we are 7-8 games in to get a fair idea whether this is going towards something good or not.

While that is true, the same should be said that 1 game at the end of the season shouldn't have dictated the heavy swing towards 'keep him' that it did. That was the anomaly, not what is happening now.

In saying that, considering we did keep him I personally am putting last season behind me and giving him a fresh start to some extent. I expect he's going to fail, and seeing as we've started poorly it's even more likely, but I'll give him another four or so games before I actually vote in this poll and basically write him off.

 

[stevoc]

Been backed better than any of his predecessors yet the results keep getting worse and worse over time.

I'd also argue that amongst that list, we also play the worst brand football.

Let's hope we can make top 4 this season.

If all goes well of course, we can't be exptected to overcome any adversity in trying to achieve that goal.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

The excuse will be that Berrada, Ashworth and Vivell weren't there to make the decision. We definitely weren't in constant communication with them. The truth is that our flashy new team of experts dropped a massive bollock here.

My only explanation is that it was a combination of impact on finances (this transfers) and Tuchel deciding to take a break. He was clearly their top choice and once he wasn’t available they weren’t willing to sacrifice potential signings to fire Ten Hag and instead decided on the coin flip that maybe he turns it around.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I was thinking this the other day, Sky Sports I think had his spend at £616m. He could have bought a new first eleven with over £55m for each position with that.

It's staggering how in his 3rd year and after this massive outlay that we still look like a team with a new manager with players who don't fit his system.

No to mention much of our “best XI” still relies on players that were here before him. Dalot, Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho, Amad, Mainoo, Shaw. He didn’t buy any of them yet all but one of those would start in our ideal team right now

 

[Offside]

The facts are, after 10 years of mismanagement United are miles and miles behind Man City.

We're living in an era of Man City dominance where, even traditional big clubs like Liverpool and Arsenal who have spent years in the wilderness only to finally built a great team, still always end up behind Man City.

United should therefore play the long game and target a period in 2-3 years where not only can they have built a great team, but the inevitable cycles of football may also mean Man City are dwindling. This could happen even quicker with all the FFP fire they're under and the fact a lot of their success is down to Pep brilliance who will likely leave soon.

United have to therefore stop searching for the cyclical top 4 finishes, making signings like Casemiro, Cavani, Matic, etc. who can get you top 4 in the short term but become deadwood very quickly. They also need to stop getting in players who are good enough to play for years in a top 4 team, but not for a title challenging team, such as Fernandes and Rashford. Crucially, they need to stop getting in managers who can get you top 4 but not in a pretty way or in a sustainable style, such as Mouriniho, Ole and LVG. Liverpool in 2019 and Arsenal in 2023 were in positions a lot stronger than United have had for 11 years now, and they had both recently spent 5+ years outside the CL. We haven't even spent more than 1 year out of it because that's all we cared about.

The club therefore need to make changes deeper. This has been happening for months now with changes upstairs. The transfer policy and the manner in which deals were done has clearly improved already. This will take a long time for it to be reflected on the pitch. The squad is not very good, consisting mostly of deadwood ready to be moved on at a later date or players who are years away from their prime (including new signings). Yes, you could address this by signing a short term striker/midfielder etc. and finishing 4th, but the deadwood cycle would just go on indefinitely.

So importantly, the next managerial appointment has to be right. If you get a short term option who can improve us this season how sustainable is it? The same cycle will continue. Look at Ole. If that means waiting months for the right target to emerge or become available whilst we finish 8th again, that's fine. the goal has to be long term. We could have a prime Fergie reincarnated and they wouldn't be able to topple City for at least 2 years anyway.

In the meantime, during this period of City dominance, what can United hope for? How about beating them in a cup final? ETH did that in 2024. How about finishing high enough in the league and winning the only trophy City didn't? ETH did that in 2023. It's obvious to me and everyone else that he isn't the man who will lead us back to glory, but at the moment I don't see the target out there who is. If we just binned ETH and got in another mediocre manager, they would be given time and we'd just end up in the same cycle. Maybe a cycle like under Ole where we can finish top 4, but then you'd all be missing the cups won under ETH. This club should be where Man City are, winning league titles on a regular basis, and the board are right in choosing to wait for the right managerial target.

 

[Telsim]

I've been trying to think of a bigger fraud than this guy and I keep coming up short. Like, you obviously have many cases of managers failing to make the step up and quickly disappearing, or just straight up worse and mediocre managers out there but no one really expects anything of them. Take, I don't know, Frank de Boer, or Nuno Espirito Santo, for example, off the top of my head. Pochettino's myth lasted for a while, but he never really stuck around in one place for long because he inevitably got sacked, for better or worse. Potter practically vanished as well, although he is still getting paid by Chelsea. And you also have Southgate. But did anyone really like or believe in Southgate outside of any patriotic feelings one might have?

But I don't think I have seen a guy defraud so many people into thinking that he is this great mastermind, this impeccable tactician, that has The Plan™, and if you just give him enough money and enough time he will suddenly turn into Guardiola, despite so clearly not being different than those guys above and will eventually end the same way. Much closer to Nuno than anywhere close to Pep. And it's not just random people, but journalists, and apparently INEOS as well? Is it sunk cost fallacy? Or just not wanting to admit one is wrong? Indecision? Blind loyalty? It doesn't sound any different to a VC scam to me. One of those that you wonder how people fell for it in the first place, even smart people. But that can at least be explained with greed. Is his just a case of the right place at the right time?

My friends that support other clubs barely even banter anymore, they just keep asking me how he still has the job. Imagine if I start explaining how he is actually great and will have United challenging soon. I’d sound like a lunatic. Exactly like the people that invest into those VC scams and remain utterly convinced they are about to be millionaires if they believe hard enough and hold on, despite the entire thing being a complete and obvious scam to everyone else.

Same thing here. This manager is so obviously and clearly not good and no amount of support will change that. This team isn’t going to be utterly shit for three years and then suddenly become world class on the fourth, or fifth, or whatever year. His football has been exposed time and again. And what happens when 1-2 players get injured? Just fall apart completely again? He is all out of pathetic excuses. So, what’s the point of wasting any more resources? There’s the matter of replacement, but if INEOS are so professional and have a style in mind, then surely there’s someone out there that can do much better with this squad? Because unlike 2 years ago, I think the squad is quite good now. Not brilliant, certainly, but should be enough to challenge Top 4 comfortably. I'm certain a proper manager can do that, and could also use to prepare for next season better. So, just sack now and move on.

 

[flameinthesun]

3 games into the season and people already getting upset that INEOS haven't sacked Ten Hag after...3 games.

 

[lex talionis]

I endorse the long run argument, but on what basis can it be argued that ETH is right man for the long run? It can't just be that he won the FA Cup, because apart from that his tenure as manager of United our performances and results have been rather shit. I went through this point a few months but I'll just state briefly we won a lot of games last season by one goal against supposedly inferior opponents. We were thrashed out of the CL group stage. We were nowhere near touching the top four at season's end.

Moreover, ETH's recruitment has been remarkably ridiculous. I can go through the names but everyone here is familiar with the tragedy of the ins prior to this summer. As for this summer, that remains to be seen. As for the tactics, his tactics don't suit the players he has at his disposal.

Still, I don't see a good option to turn to right now so slog on with ETH we must.

 

[Shark]

3 games into the season and people already getting upset that INEOS haven't sacked Ten Hag after...3 games.

How many times does it have to said on here that these people, including myself, wanted him gone for over a year now. Especially after the FA Cup. He had to start well this season, and he's continuing to shit the bed. This reaction was always going to happen in this case.

 

[flameinthesun]

How many times does it have to said on here that these people, including myself, wanted him gone for over a year now. Especially after the FA Cup. He had to start well this season, and he's continuing to shit the bed. This reaction was always going to happen in this case.

3 games.

 

[Shark]

3 games.

It's not three games in the winder scheme of things though, is it? Everyone and their granny knew he had to start this season flying after the disgrace of a season he overseen.

 

[lex talionis]

3 games.

Has ETH been manager of Manchester United Football Club for only "3 games"?

 

[doomy20]

Imagining finishing 8th with a negative goal difference and realising things have to get even worse in order for a change to happen.

Imagine doing this. Then getting a new contract, coaching staff around you and the most money to spend out of all clubs again (except Chelsea) and still getting worse.