They did, but if that facilitated the signing of a good player, don't see the issue. Jury is out I guess, but so far, I like what I've seen.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss United's last 3 games - two much-needed wins vs. Burnley in the Premier League and Palace in the League Cup, as well as a the 4-3 loss away at Bayern. They discuss the defence, new options in midfield with Hannibal and Amrabat now in contention and look forward to games vs. Palace (again!) and Galatasary.
We didn’t lose this game because of takeover talks, we didn’t go down 0-2 to Forest in the first few minutes because of that, our inconsistent play since March or so is not because of these talks. These are just excuses.
Imagine there is a talk about takeover for the next couple of years. So, should these players continue to lose? I had changes in my management, but never anything like this. The President of our university quit after 30 years or so, then the Provost stepped down after a decade. Well, we all continued to do our jobs.
That's an incredibly reductive way of looking at it. We lost this game because both the squad composition and mindset of the players is not right. Both these things are affected by the uncertainty of the ownership. The former because no-one at senior level knowing what the financial situation will be over the next 5 years means that decisions have to be made moment to moment in a piecemeal fashion rather than with a long term view.
And the latter because these players know that half the senior management team might not even be there in 6 months time, making it hard to know what their future will be either. Bear in mind this is an insanely competitive world, which I suspect is unlike your (or my) workplace. For me, I could easily get by just putting in 80% effort for a few months and no-one could really tell. But in football even if you're giving less than maximum effort in training and recovery, it shows up in games.
The takeover is not the only factor, that's for sure. But uncertainty in any organisation is disruptive, and in a field where such fine margins make a tangible difference on the pitch, it certainly is detrimental.
I dare say the pressure and scrutiny that come with your job isn’t exactly comparable with being a Utd player. And they aren’t excuses, look at us when Fergie announced his retirement the first time before reversing it, the drop and subsequent uplift in form are well documented.
Add on top of that the small inconvenience of half the squad on the treatment table then it’s not a surprise that it’s pretty hard to be a good football team right now. I’m by no means saying that we will suddenly become the best team in Europe once we sort these issues out, imo our ceiling atm is still top 4 and a good cup run here and there, but we know these players, inconsistent and flakey as they are, are capable of better and the current situation surrounding the club doesn’t help them showcasing that. If you are up thinking at night about how you might not be here after the next window for the past few months, your preparation, mindset and effort level will not be, to put it delicately, optimal.
If we sack ETH then this club is beyond hopeless.
That is a great point. I've thought about how easy the players here have it and have had it for years, but if a takeover happens - especially Qatari (leaving aside other considerations) then their security at the club is likely gone.
Another thing I've wondered about is whether players who may have anything to hide - just stuff they want kept private, not criminal - may be on the edge now because of the open season on United and intense scrutiny.
https://apple.news/A6qU37UedSwS7_DS821UzXw
Looks like the upper ups are trying to protect themselves. But this does contradict the “staff concerned by influence of ETH agent” article. Which is what makes me think that leak came from players eg Maguire (who reportedly left after 15 minutes on Saturday) and Sancho etc.
Anyways the article above is a self preservation piece of PR for Matt Hargreaves. Our newly appointed transfer negotiator. Tbf i think he’s done a crap job so far. We over payed by £10m for Hujland (but long term won’t be a big thing if the signing works out), paid exactly what Fiorentina wanted for Amrabat and delayed his arrival by months, so effected the football side for nothing. Didn’t accept a great offer for McTominay, sold Fred for less than other teams offered etc.
Also don’t forget Kim min-Jae was ETH primary target so it’s arguable Hargreaves coming in and trying to play hard ball is what fecked it up. Because by many reports that deal was pretty much agreed. Also a few observers mentioned a shift in ETH tone during pre season. Matching the dates it occurred around and just after the time Min-Jae joined Bayern.
We don’t have a lot to decipher. But from the nuggets.
ETH: Is not overjoyed with the window and time it’s taken for some signings to arrive. He is very disappointed with the of lack sales because of the negativity he knows unwanted players will bring. Also I think he wanted that ball playing CB desperately and until Matt arrived he thought he was getting Kim min-Jae
Players: Something has changed. Remember the unity, fist bumping, chest smashing warrior spirit of last season? Where has it gone. Unfortunately we didn’t sell the players the manager wanted sold and a rotten smell affects everyone.
Upper ups.
Hargreaves is protecting himself. Why we’d hire someone who worked for Adidas to negotiate players I don’t know. You could be the best negotiator in the world but if you don’t understand how clubs think you can easily offend them.
Arnold seems to be untouchable. Will probably be a PR piece to divert attention from the glazers.
Glazers: loving it. All this keeps attention away from them. But if the sale is real it does lower their bargaining power slightly. I’m sure Snapdragon have clauses about performance etc. So it’s good in regards to keeping favs attention off them. But if the bad form continues it affects their bargaining power. But could uncertainty be what makes them make an impulsive move and accept an offer?
Looks like the upper ups are trying to protect themselves. But this does contradict the “staff concerned by influence of ETH agent” article. Which is what makes me think that leak came from players eg Maguire (who reportedly left after 15 minutes on Saturday) and Sancho etc.
Anyways the article above is a self preservation piece of PR for Matt Hargreaves. Our newly appointed transfer negotiator. Tbf i think he’s done a crap job so far. We over payed by £10m for Hujland (but long term won’t be a big thing if the signing works out), paid exactly what Fiorentina wanted for Amrabat and delayed his arrival by months, so effected the football side for nothing. Didn’t accept a great offer for McTominay, sold Fred for less than other teams offered etc.
Also don’t forget Kim min-Jae was ETH primary target so it’s arguable Hargreaves coming in and trying to play hard ball is what fecked it up. Because by many reports that deal was pretty much agreed. Also a few observers mentioned a shift in ETH tone during pre season. Matching the dates it occurred around and just after the time Min-Jae joined Bayern.
We don’t have a lot to decipher. But from the nuggets.
ETH: Is not overjoyed with the window and time it’s taken for some signings to arrive. He is very disappointed with the of lack sales because of the negativity he knows unwanted players will bring. Also I think he wanted that ball playing CB desperately and until Matt arrived he thought he was getting Kim min-Jae
Players: Something has changed. Remember the unity, fist bumping, chest smashing warrior spirit of last season? Where has it gone. Unfortunately we didn’t sell the players the manager wanted sold and a rotten smell affects everyone.
Upper ups.
Hargreaves is protecting himself. Why we’d hire someone who worked for Adidas to negotiate players I don’t know. You could be the best negotiator in the world but if you don’t understand how clubs think you can easily offend them.
Arnold seems to be untouchable. Will probably be a PR piece to divert attention from the glazers.
Glazers: loving it. All this keeps attention away from them. But if the sale is real it does lower their bargaining power slightly. I’m sure Snapdragon have clauses about performance etc. So it’s good in regards to keeping favs attention off them. But if the bad form continues it affects their bargaining power. But could uncertainty be what makes them make an impulsive move and accept an offer?
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Manchester United staff express concerns about growing involvement of Erik ten Hag’s agent Kees Vos in transfers
https://manutdnews.com/manchester-u...of-erik-ten-hags-agent-kees-vos-in-transfers/
Rasmus Hojlund joined SEG before he moved to Man United from Atalanta in the summer, while the agency also acted for the club during the negotiations over the loan signing of Morocco international midfielder Sofyan Amrabat from Fiorentina.
Zidane Iqbal also joined them some weeks before the Red Devils sold him to Utrecht, and the growing influence of Vos’ firm has left other agents unhappy as they reckon it would make them lose out on potential deals due to his strong relationship with Ten Hag.
https://manutdnews.com/manchester-u...of-erik-ten-hags-agent-kees-vos-in-transfers/
Rasmus Hojlund joined SEG before he moved to Man United from Atalanta in the summer, while the agency also acted for the club during the negotiations over the loan signing of Morocco international midfielder Sofyan Amrabat from Fiorentina.
Zidane Iqbal also joined them some weeks before the Red Devils sold him to Utrecht, and the growing influence of Vos’ firm has left other agents unhappy as they reckon it would make them lose out on potential deals due to his strong relationship with Ten Hag.
Isn't this the same thing that happened with Mourinho and Ole?
In what way?
edit
Actually, I remember Ole signing loads of players from jim solbakken
This Kees Vos thing is really grinding my gear. His son works there? Unacceptable.
Yeah. Under Mourinho a lot of players were in some way connected with Jorge Mendes, and under Ole it was Jim Solbakken if I recall correctly.
Isn't this precisely why we have a DOF? To prevent this type of recruitment?
Over the course of a season, sure. Other teams that don't have similar issues will eventually outperform us in the table.
But within any given game? I think you're being too easy on them. When a player has to go close down someone, they're not thinking about senior management. When Rashford is trying to make a decision whether to pass or shoot, he's not thinking about takeover talks. Actually the worry is he's not thinking at all. When ETH saw that his diamond formation was being overrun in the last game and did nothing to fix it, he was not being weighed down by the lack of a sporting director.
Even as a fan, I will be grumbling right until the whistle. Once the whistle goes at Old Trafford and we start to go forward, I'm excited. I forget all this rubbish. I'm sure professional players are capable of a decent amount of compartmentalisation too in those 90-100 minutes. At least they should be. If not, then it's on ETH for selecting them. He could've easily played a full B-team against Brighton and only been slightly worse off. Besides fecking off Ronaldo, I don't see much of this "bringing high standards" back that he's claimed to be doing.
I think that's just giving them excuses. The takeover barely makes the news there has been so little happening. It will have no effect on day to day training at the club.
In the press conference, Erik always say we played well at certain passage of the game but we lost the game. Keep saying it is a process, keep saying we were unlucky and etc. Whatever you say, it doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is we lost those games. We beat 2 relegation teams with difficulty and lost 3 games against opponents that are same level or lower than us. You are running out of excuses and very soon you will be looking for a job in 2024. Rashford is likely back to his mediocre self with a new contract, Casemiro would likely return back to his childhood club, Eriksen will probably retire, Sancho and Maguire will sit of the bench until his contract is up, Antony is likely your average RW in EPL. United will be at their average best, drifting from outside top 4 in the next 3-4 years. Total mismanagement from top to bottom. Speechless, I think I will stop watching United until New owners are place to shake things up. I hope my Lakers can bring joy to me.
Here we go fellas. The leaks start to come out in the media. I think this is the beginning of the end for ETH. Murtough need to find a scapegoat soon to save his job if the results deteriorate.
What's the point of sacking the manager when Murtough is still there? The cycle will just continue with the new manager comes in after spending 0.5 billions and be sacked after 2 years.
What's the point of sacking the manager when Murtough is still there? The cycle will just continue with the new manager comes in after spending 0.5 billions and be sacked after 2 years.
Manchester United staff (DoF and other titles for the sake of it) are expressing concerns about not doing their job
The most sensible post I've seen on this forum in recent weeks.
Sack ETH, hire the german with the skateboard, watch him grind out a couple of wins, maybe win a cup or make a good CL run.
By the same time next year you'll be calling for his head.
The problems in United start from the top.
This leads to the facts that Ronaldo pointed out.
Outdated facilities, methods, shit fitness coaches, shit dietitians, shit recovery.
No sporting director.
Throw crazy money at transfers because the shit scouting has zero backup plan if target A doesn't work at desired price.
We are set to fail.
Surely every fan should have a clue what's going on after the same pattern happens to 5th manager in a row?
By the same time next year you'll be calling for his head.
The problems in United start from the top.
This leads to the facts that Ronaldo pointed out.
Outdated facilities, methods, shit fitness coaches, shit dietitians, shit recovery.
No sporting director.
Throw crazy money at transfers because the shit scouting has zero backup plan if target A doesn't work at desired price.
We are set to fail.
Surely every fan should have a clue what's going on after the same pattern happens to 5th manager in a row?
I think it's totally obvious that everyone except the manager is doing absolutely nothing within their role that might cause them any accountability and ultimately cost them their job. The DOF is now allowing managers to find, scout and sign his own players while he joins in for the negotiation phase. Just mental really.Manchester United staff (DoF and other titles for the sake of it) are expressing concerns about not doing their job
This is the same reductive argument again. What happens on match day is a direct consequence of everything that goes before it. This isn't about just willing it to happen. If you aren't at your physical and mental peak, you underperform. I don't even think this is debatable. Like, what do people think the purpose of training actually is if it makes no difference to your performance? They're not just running laps to stay fit.
Nagelsmann signs for the DFB now, he will be available again after the Euro next summer.
They do a bit of PR and that's about it.
I mean, this is the same club who not only gave Ole all the power, but also left stunned when he finally cracked. Got Rangnick to asses the players only to move him after players who were shit and he was there to asses how much shit they are played like they did.
We are now operating in a way where managers will say feck that would rather go to a club where I will be... erm just a feckin coach.
I said the other day we could start seeing leaks from big Utd sources, looks like Custis is the first of those today. Until I see this team show that desire to turn games around then fear Erik doesn't have a dressing room united in fighting for him.
Then ETH should say that none of them are training to their max potential because of these reasons, yet he chose to play them, and that too in a suboptimal formation. He should also front up about why he didn't want to work with Rangnick.
Instead, here he is, talking about VAR camera angles, or saying that Brighton also spend money, as if it's comparable in any way to us.
Is there any expectation for ETH you have that can't be dismissed by pointing at the club hierarchy and these issues? Would you say that regardless of the crap above the team, ETH should be finishing at least top-5? Top-8? Top-17? What is the bar for you below which these excuses about senior management just won't wash? I'm curious because it seems you can use it to excuse any outcome for however long you want.
Sadly we will never get to find out why he didn't want to work with Rangnick. Especially frustrating when you look at the quality of players he suggested to us as well.
Does also feel like too many players were overplayed last season and has led to unnecessary injury issues piling up already
I hardly think that stoking the fires of hate against the powers that be would help ETH get the job done, no matter what he may think privately.
What has this got to do with anything we're talking about?
I said right in my first post its not the only factor, so I don't know what you're going on about here.
I don't think he's anywhere close to being sacked and maybe rightly so. All of our failures started with recruitment, starting from last summer when they (Directors included) misdiagnosed the team. If they did a little bit of homework they'd find out ETH didn't build the Ajax team and wasn't ready to be chief transfer strategist without someone giving substantial help. In fact deferring transfer strategy was probably just a convenient way to hide not having a first clue how to build a team either. Even factoring questionable targets ETH is probably still the best teambuilder in the club hierarchy, which is sad.
Get rid now before he does more damage.
There's plenty of very good people available, Zidane, Conte, Lampard or even have a player manager, there's not.been one of those for a while. Sancho would be an interesting pick.
There's plenty of very good people available, Zidane, Conte, Lampard or even have a player manager, there's not.been one of those for a while. Sancho would be an interesting pick.
Sancho, Maguire and Jones triple team.
I tried explaining the idea of a player-manager to my 11yo, he looked at me like I was making it all up.
That is simply not true. He has some good sources that provide really good information.
I believe that is the most acute problem at the club right now. It is why our squad has not improved since last summer.
The glazers have started their media machine in order to prepare the ground for ETH sacking.
Until we get rid of them nothing will change.
I dont want ETH gone but this agent shit and his son working there is utterly bizarre and totally unacceptable
Spot on. All coming from the Glazers.
Not a bad shout...but how about we save a few million and just promote Phil Jones to first team coach with Eni Aluko as the new dof.
Too early to tell since Mount, Höjlund and Amrabat have mostly been injured so far, but Höjlund aside I would be surprised if they improve our XI massively.
God I’m sick of this shit.
The management structure is to blame.
- Sell the players he doesn’t want. It’s not like he’s asking for players to be sold that the next manager would want. This is made 100% true by the fact that nobody is trying to buy them at knockdown prices. Just get rid of them. Even if we receive £50m for 5 players. Get them gone. They’re not of the required standard, and are mostly damaging to the club.
- Get a system in place that is able to identify cheap and talented players. Just like Liverpool, City, Brighton, Brentford do. Yes it’s hard to win a title like that from the position we’re in. But it’s sure as not hard to secure players that would see us fight for European spots.
We won’t win anything meaningful, we won’t challenge for the league. We are a bad club that forever sits 3 years away from a position to start building from. Signing old players on expensive contracts is nothing like forward looking enough.
With all that said, our injuries have decimated us to a point that we look far worse than we are. We’re a top 4-6 team with a Top 8-10 squad.
It’s the owners and management that need to fix this shit. They won’t.
The management structure is to blame.
- Sell the players he doesn’t want. It’s not like he’s asking for players to be sold that the next manager would want. This is made 100% true by the fact that nobody is trying to buy them at knockdown prices. Just get rid of them. Even if we receive £50m for 5 players. Get them gone. They’re not of the required standard, and are mostly damaging to the club.
- Get a system in place that is able to identify cheap and talented players. Just like Liverpool, City, Brighton, Brentford do. Yes it’s hard to win a title like that from the position we’re in. But it’s sure as not hard to secure players that would see us fight for European spots.
We won’t win anything meaningful, we won’t challenge for the league. We are a bad club that forever sits 3 years away from a position to start building from. Signing old players on expensive contracts is nothing like forward looking enough.
With all that said, our injuries have decimated us to a point that we look far worse than we are. We’re a top 4-6 team with a Top 8-10 squad.
It’s the owners and management that need to fix this shit. They won’t.