Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[JPRouve]

He signed Casemiro, Mount, Amrabat, Antony and Malacia who are all now deadweight. £240m outlay.

He gave Rashford a giant new contract and made him undroppable. £15m a year.

Made Bruno captain and lets him play every minute of every game despite regular shitshow performances.

It's also largely ETH's fault we still have Martial, Maguire and McTominay all stinking up the place. A different manager would have firmly pushed at least some of them out the door. ETH has made them all indispensable at different stages.

And that's point I made. Even if people will have a different take on some players, the reality is that a fair amount are directly linked to ETH whether they been bought, loaned, signed for free, been undroppable or put in terrible tactical contexts.

Which makes me question his judgement more than have faith in his ability to "clean" the squad this summer or during any summer. Especially since he has never done such a thing in his career, his experience is as a head coach not a "british" manager.

 

[hobbers]

You could argue that only Antony and maybe Casemiro have been poor transfers.

The rest are fine.

Not debating the other stuff as that's got nothing to do with my point.

Mount was an abysmal transfer, Amrabat and Malacia both poor, thats not debatable. Even if Amrabat only cost £8m and Malacia £12m. They contribute nothing now. They cant even contribute positively in cup games. Malacia has vanished and Mount is 6th choice even when fit. Amrabat will probably not kick a ball for us again.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

He signed Casemiro, Mount, Amrabat, Antony and Malacia who are all now deadweight. £240m outlay.

He gave Rashford a giant new contract and made him undroppable. £15m a year.

Made Bruno captain and lets him play every minute of every game despite regular shitshow performances.

It's also largely ETH's fault we still have Martial, Maguire and McTominay all stinking up the place. A different manager would have firmly pushed at least some of them out the door. ETH has made them all indispensable at different stages.

Behave hobbers with Mount.

Behave with Martial, Maguire and McTominay. Martial has the protection of the glazers. No pushing him out. Maguire we tried to sell he didn’t want to leave and McTominay we also tried to sell (and by reports would have bought a DM like Onana in his stead)

We have as many injuries as Villa and Spurs and the reason why we are.missing out it's not just because of injuries or squad profile but because he is the worst of those three managers, finito!
Brentford had more players missing out yesterday than we did.
Since Emery came to Villa, they have gotten more points than us with arguably a far more inferior squad trying to survive relegation the previous season.
It is delusional to think this man is any good, he sold us a dream but the reality is completely different.

The injuries thing is demonstrably false and this lie has been clearly addressed several times now.

We have without question had the most injuries in the top 6.

 

[Berbaclass]

Mount, Amrabat and Malacia have also all been poor transfers, thats not debatable. Even if Amrabat only cost £8m and Malacia £12m. They contribute nothing now. They cant even contribute positively in cup games. Malacia has vanished and Mount is 6th choice even when fit.

Players like Malacia, Bayandir and Amrabat are punts. Every manager/club signs them. Some work, some don't.

Mount is still up in the air.

 

[Toshey]

He signed Casemiro, Mount, Amrabat, Antony and Malacia who are all now deadweight. £240m outlay.

He gave Rashford a giant new contract and made him undroppable. £15m a year.

Made Bruno captain and lets him play every minute of every game despite regular shitshow performances.

It's also largely ETH's fault we still have Martial, Maguire and McTominay all stinking up the place. A different manager would have firmly pushed at least some of them out the door. ETH has made them all indispensable at different stages.

What the actual feck?
Mount looked lively in the few cameos he had and he scored his first goal.
He has a great future for us. He'll find his form.

Casemiro is our most experienced midfielder and invaluable example for Mainoo.

Amrabat is on loan.

Antony might still prove to be useful, might be sold.

Malacia got horror injury and complications how is this ETH's fault?

Maguire was literally out of the door, he couldn't agree personal terms with West Ham! And he proved to be professional and good for us this season.

I agree about Bruno and Rahsford to some extend.

 

[Leftback99]

@Leftback99 still waiting.

@DSG still waiting

Key point here when fit.

We’ve never played this XI together. We’ve never had them all simultaneously fit.

Just take the first 10 in the league for a start.

 

[Stadjer]

We have as many injuries as Villa and Spurs and the reason why we are.missing out it's not just because of injuries or squad profile but because he is the worst of those three managers, finito!
Brentford had more players missing out yesterday than we did.
Since Emery came to Villa, they have gotten more points than us with arguably a far more inferior squad trying to survive relegation the previous season.
It is delusional to think this man is any good, he sold us a dream but the reality is completely different.

Villa were only that low because Gerrard is an absolute clown manager. They had very good players when Gerrard was the manager. Does Villa really have a far more inferior squad compared to the players that played most games for Manchester United this year?

From their game against Wolves, Watkins, Diaby, Bailey, Luiz, Pau Torres (he was a caf favorite to sign at one point) arent worse than who started for us against Brentford. I would also prefer Tielemans to McT or Moreno/Digna over left back Wan-Bissaka. Their goalkeeper is amongst the better goalkeepers in the league too and Diego Carlos is a good defender too. Aston Villa just have a really good squad (and manager). Scott McT wouldnt start for them. Garnacho likely wouldnt be. Awb wouldnt start as their left back.

 

[E-mal]

He has three of the most selfish attackers I've ever seen at utd in terms of Rashford, Garnacho and Anthony. I'm not saying he is amazing and can't do better but it is well documented how poor we are in attack and we're often refered to as moments fc.

Too many excuses mate, I am tired of all those excuses. You might be right but even when he gets opportunities his finishing his often off and his overall game not great but look, it is not just his fault we are where we are. In an ideal world he should not be a starter but for what we paid he can only be a starter sadly.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

@Leftback99 you going to name these managers that would have dealt with this season better you said most so I’m assuming 10 (at least a majority).

Or is this silence a concession that you were talking out your left backside?

 

[Atheist]

How are we still making injuries as an excuse for the performances? Are we the only team in the league dealing with injuries? Brentford themselves have a ton of injuries, especially in defense and we barely troubled them. Injuries cannot fly as an excuse forever. Besides which of the injured players currently would have made a significant difference? Maybe Luke Shaw but hard to think of anyone else.

 

[Sandikan]

Manchester United are.

I'm definitely not. He looks more clueless now than Moyes ever did even! But Ratcliffe and co seem content. It really shows our standards compared to other big clubs, that this level is considered acceptable for so long.

What gives you this impression? When there's clearly stories brewing about potential replacements?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Just take the first 10 in the league for a start.

Including Moyes yeah? You WUM.

 

[E-mal]

Villa were only that low because Gerrard is an absolute clown manager. They had very good players when Gerrard was the manager. Does Villa really have a far more inferior squad compared to the players that played most games for Manchester United this year?

From their game against Wolves, Watkins, Diaby, Bailey, Luiz, Pau Torres (he was a caf favorite to sign at one point) arent worse than who started for us against Brentford. I would also prefer Tielemans to McT or Moreno/Digna over left back Wan-Bissaka. Their goalkeeper is amongst the better goalkeepers in the league too and Diego Carlos is a good defender too. Aston Villa just have a really good squad (and manager). Scott McT wouldnt start for them. Garnacho likely wouldnt be. Awb wouldnt start as their left back.

Trust me if we had any of those players, we will be here asking for them to be sold.

 

[Stadjer]

How are we still making injuries as an excuse for the performances? Are we the only team in the league dealing with injuries? Brentford themselves have a ton of injuries, especially in defense and we barely troubled them. Injuries cannot fly as an excuse forever. Besides which of the injured players currently would have made a significant difference? Maybe Luke Shaw but hard to think of anyone else.

Maybe Luke Shaw? How can you say maybe? Luke Shaw or AWB as a left back. That isnt a maybe, that is a massive difference. A 90 minute and match fit Martinez makes a huge difference. Casemiro might not have been great this season but when he is fully fit and plays the results are usually better.

That Brentford game was horrible. Even with the injuries but the injuries do matter. Some on here will just pretend that the injuries arent having any effect at all. They make a big difference but you can argue about how much of a difference they make or should make. Pretending that there arent any injuries and that those injuries have no effect at all is just unfair though.

 

[hobbers]

What the actual feck?
Mount looked lively in the few cameos he had and he scored his first goal.
He has a great future for us. He'll find his form.

Casemiro is our most experienced midfielder and invaluable example for Mainoo.

Amrabat is on loan.

Antony might still prove to be useful, might be sold.

Insane levels of copium.

£60m and £250k a week for a player who "looks lively" in just 400 minutes of football, total. And scores 1 (meaningless) goal. And is not be in the manager's top 5 midfield picks in any position.

£85m for a player who "might prove useful, might be sold (say the at a £65m loss part very quietly)"

And what example is Mainoo suppose to follow? Being comfortably the worst regular starter at the club in a full calendar year? Becoming a catastrophically shit holding midfielder who lunges in and takes himself out of play at every available opportunity, never tracks back and makes passes like he's being electrocuted? We should keep Mainoo as far away from him as possible.

 

[Leftback99]

Including Moyes yeah? You WUM.

Yep. Beat us at Home and pretty unlucky to lose away. Only 4 points behind with a far inferior West Ham squad.

As poor in the underlying stats as us though so I'd have Frank or Iraola over him if it winds you up.

NOTHING Ten Hag has done this season sets him apart from the average PL manager.

 

[JPRouve]

Insane levels of copium.

£60m and £250k a week for a player who "looks lively" in just 400 minutes of football, total. And scores 1 (meaningless) goal. And is not be in the manager's top 5 midfield picks in any position.

£85m for a player who "might prove useful, might be sold (say the at a £65m loss part very quietly)"

And what example is Mainoo suppose to follow? Being comfortably the worst regular starter at the club in a full calendar year? Becoming a catastrophically shit holding midfielder who lunges in and takes himself out of play at every available opportunity, never tracks back and makes passes like he's being electrocuted? Follow the lead of someone who packed off to United to put his feet up for a nice fat payday.

You are letting your emotions get the better of you.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Maybe Luke Shaw? How can you say maybe? Luke Shaw or AWB as a left back. That isnt a maybe, that is a massive difference. A 90 minute and match fit Martinez makes a huge difference. Casemiro might not have been great this season but when he is fully fit and plays the results are usually better.

That Brentford game was horrible. Even with the injuries but the injuries do matter. Some on here will just pretend that the injuries arent having any effect at all. They make a big difference but you can argue about how much of a difference they make or should make. Pretending that there arent any injuries and that those injuries have no effect at all is just unfair though.

Brentford had their entire first choice back four missing and their holder so the poster you quoted has a point. Hickey, Pinnock, Mee, Henry, Norgaard all out for them. In the overall context of a season injuries of course affect teams. But in a one off game when two teams have injuries and the one in the bottom five of the league has more injuries you deffo can’t justify such an abomination of a display on “injuries”.

 

[hobbers]

You are letting your emotions get the better of you.

Somewhat but also not really. Casemiro has absolutely nothing to offer Mainoo. They're not even the same type of midfielder for a start. And Casemiro is not a model professional or a club statesman. Carrick at 32 would be an ideal role model for Mainoo.

Casemiro has never been good at the parts of the game that Mainoo clearly thrives at.

 

[TsuWave]

like, what's the visio/masterplan here that I'm not seeing:



High-press with a low defensive line? How does that make sense or how's that ever going to work? Teams can just break through it with two or three passes, then you have Mainoo - isolated - and both him and the wide players having to cover a lot of ground. This happens multiple times per game. I don't get it - what am I missing?

 

[RedRocket9908]

Only Antony is really a waste of money at this point. Doesnt look like he can step up from the Ajax level and was already too expensive anyway.

If you want to be harsh and forget about last season i suppose you could add Casemiro to the list as a waste of money. He surely wasnt a waste last year. Mount has not been able to play because of injuries so you can call him a waste when it suits your narrative.

Onana and Hojlund were expensive but are showing why they cost so much money. Martinez was really good last season but has been unlucky with injuries. Malacia is a cheap back up with potential and didnt cost much. Just like Bayindir is just a cheap reserve goalkeeper.

I find the 'wasted 400m' narrative a bit boring. Only Antony is really a failure at this time but unfortunatly the failed singing was the most expensive of them all.

When he came in the 2 positions we needed to fill were a DM and a Striker but by the time the season started he hadnt signed either of those and had instead wasted 57m on a defender we didnt need, 12m on a LB we didnt need, and 81m on a RW winger we didnt need before pannick signing a DM close to deadline day.

Last summer he spent 55m on Mount who again we didnt need and spent 64m on a poor Haaland tribute act who cant play a full 90 minutes and has probably spent more time on the docters bed than the pitch.

 

[Stadjer]

Trust me if we had any of those players, we will be here asking for them to be sold.

Most likely, we also do that for our current players so that doesnt mean those Aston Villa players are any worse than ours. Sure, Tielemans seems to be disliked as a player on this forum but i take him over McT if i wanted to keep the ball in my team. Hojlund is talented but Watkins is currently atleast as good. Garnacho could become a great player but Diaby scored and assisted more in less minutes. And isnt Luiz on some people their wishlist as our next midfielder to play next to Mainoo? People claimed we should have signed Emiliano Martínez instead of Onana because the former is better.

Rashford is the most hated player on this forum and while Bailey hasnt really lived up to the hype of when he was a young talent, he is having a better season as Rashford. Rashford his peak has been higher but this year Bailey is likely the better out of them.

Not saying Aston Villa has better players everywhere but i dont think they are far inferior to our squad. We might be Manchester United and that is a big name but this squad, and surely the players that have been playing a lot because of all the injuries, arent the type of players that should play for Manchester United. Not many of them are amongst the best players in their positions world wide.

 

[Abhinav]

This season has been one of the worst in terms of performances since SAF retired. Very close to Moyes’ season, LVG’s last season and Ole/ Ragnick season. What did all those season have in common? The manager got sacked. I hope EtH goes the same way. I have no confidence in his ability to coach this team to success.
Yesterday was such a horrible performance that even when Mount scored, there was no feeling of elation. Just pure hollowness knowing that no matter the result, we are so bad that we have no realistic chance of catching Spurs or Villa.
If INEOS does not make any change, then we are screwed.

 

[soapythecat]

There’s zero chance he gets sacked between now and the end of the season

I know. Wishful thinking lad

 

[VP89]

The point is he has wasted 400m and most of his signings wernt loans and freebies

He doesn't decide the fees, and he hasn't been able to call upon 2 big signings whilst seeing a 3rd brought in as a "project" not for immediate impact.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Somewhat but also not really. Casemiro has absolutely nothing to offer Mainoo. They're not even the same type of midfielder for a start. And Casemiro is not a model professional or a club statesman. Carrick at 32 would be an ideal role model for Mainoo.

Casemiro has never been good at the parts of the game that Mainoo clearly thrives at.

Take a break hobbers. Too far hyperbolic now to suggest Casemiro can’t help at all.

 

[RedRocket9908]

He doesn't decide the fees, and he hasn't been able to call upon 2 big signings whilst seeing a 3rd brought in as a "project" not for immediate impact.

You dont pay 64m for a project

 

[Stadjer]

When he came in the 2 positions we needed to fill were a DM and a Striker but by the time the season started he hadnt signed either of those and had instead wasted 57m on a defender we didnt need, 12m on a LB we didnt need, and 81m on a RW winger we didnt need before pannick signing a DM close to deadline day.

Last summer he spent 55m on Mount who again we didnt need and spent 64m on a poor Haaland tribute act.

We needed a defender. Remember meme Maguire from that time? You wanted to go into the season with that Maguire, injury prone and at that time France international Varane and Lindelof? We needed a defender and we got a very good one. Remember our back up left back from that time? I dont because he was shite but it was Telles. We needed a back up left back. He signed a cheap one that had potential to develop and had a very good game against Salah. The injury is just very bad luck. Shaw went on to have a good season.

Antony, a failed signing but looking for a left footed right winger made sense. We only had Sancho and he didnt show that he was going to be any good. Besides that we had unproven Amad and Pellistri. We needed a right winger, we just didnt need one that hasnt been able to step up from Ajax to Manchester United.

With the amount of times that McT has started this year, i would argue that singing Mount isnt a bad deal. Hojlund is a bad singing now too? He is a bit of a project player but he has shown to have potential and surely to be more than a 'Haaland tibute act'. Hojlund his injury just came at a bad time it seems.

Casemiro might have been a panic signing (although reports say that there were talks for a long time so that would rule out a last minute panic signing) but Casemiro was good and important last year. This forum was crying because missing suspended Casemiro against Arsenal would be the end of our title hopes....

 

[TsuWave]

United's league position is, imo, quite flattering. The results haven't always accurately reflected the performances. We "should" be lower.

 

[VP89]

You dont pay 64m for a project

Well they did, and that was well documented. It was also well documented that Ten hag wanted an experienced striker to help him, but of course you can't get everything so hey ho.

 

[JPRouve]

like, what's the visio/masterplan here that I'm not seeing:



High-press with a low defensive line? How does that make sense or how's that ever going to work? Teams can just break through it with two or three passes, then you have Mainoo - isolated - and both him and the wide players having to cover a lot of ground. This happens multiple times per game. I don't get it - what am I missing?

The issue isn't the high press and low defensive line. A typical example of that would be prime Atletico Madrid or any of Mourinho's top teams, the initial pressing is a method to gain time.

People on this forum tend to think about pressing as a way to immediately regain possession but that's only true for the extreme version of for example gegenpress. More often than not a high press is meant to disturb the opposition transition and allow most of your own players to transition defensively and the height of the line is kind of irrelevant. The issue for United is the organization of the high press, what are the players supposed to take away? And how are they supposed to systematically execute it.

In the clip that you show there is no coordination between the for "pressing" players", they are also not playing a zonal, individual or hybrid marking, they are not cutting passing angles and none of them is anticipating passes or runs. That clip shows poor coaching, poor execution or both.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Well they did, and that was well documented. It was also well documented that Ten hag wanted an experienced striker to help him, but of course you can't get everything so hey ho.

He has literally had 4 transfer windows to sign one and hasnt, he signed Weghorst instead

 

[VP89]

He has literally had 4 transfer windows to sign one and hasnt, he signed Weghorst instead

Winter windows isn't exactly something you can count on, he inherited Ronaldo who both he and the club wanted to work with. Ronaldo was over the hill and should have never been at the club in the second stint. We both know he really only had one window to look at the summer problem, and the options from our wonderful scouts weren't exactly better than Hojlund.

 

[E-mal]

Insane levels of copium.

£60m and £250k a week for a player who "looks lively" in just 400 minutes of football, total. And scores 1 (meaningless) goal. And is not be in the manager's top 5 midfield picks in any position.

£85m for a player who "might prove useful, might be sold (say the at a £65m loss part very quietly)"

And what example is Mainoo suppose to follow? Being comfortably the worst regular starter at the club in a full calendar year? Becoming a catastrophically shit holding midfielder who lunges in and takes himself out of play at every available opportunity, never tracks back and makes passes like he's being electrocuted? We should keep Mainoo as far away from him as possible.

Man,God bless for being the voice reason

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

I don't think ETH is a poor manager, but maybe he is just not good enough to get a tune out of this bunch of players.

Other managers have tried and failed with most of this squad too.

I do not think many managers would succeed with this bunch because they have proven many times they are unable to raise their game to a certain level to win constantly.

Our whole defence is beyond shocking, the way they fall apart under any pressure is insane , its like amateur hour most of the time.

If ETH got a whole new defence, one decent midfielder and a striker, then I would be quite happy to give him another season.

But to be honest, he looked like a broken man after the last game.

 

[AndrewMac]

He doesn't decide the fees, and he hasn't been able to call upon 2 big signings whilst seeing a 3rd brought in as a "project" not for immediate impact.

Not sure i quite agree on that. No club has an infinate budget, especially now with spending restrictions. It showed some inexperience, naivity on his part in my opinion to allow the club to spend such inflated fees.

 

[Stadjer]

You dont pay 64m for a project

You do these days. Goal scorers are expensive. Real Madrid stuck a deal worth 70m For a 16 year old striker project.

The finished article like a Kane or Oshimen will cost 100m+

Someone like Nunez who isnt a total project but also not a finished article did also cost a lot of money. Haaland his clause just made him cheap (atleast the fee owed to Dortmund, not cheap otherwise)

 

[Berbaclass]

You do these days. Goal scorers are expensive. Real Madrid stuck a deal worth 70m For a 16 year old striker project.

The finished article like a Kane or Oshimen will cost 100m+

Agree. It's just the going rate these days unless you get lucky.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

United's league position is, imo, quite flattering. The results haven't always accurately reflected the performances. We "should" be lower.

Looking across the league table and you’d say him and Poch are easily getting the least out of their teams

 

[JPRouve]

I don't think ETH is a poor manager, but maybe he is just not good enough to get a tune out of this bunch of players.

Other managers have tried and failed with most of this squad too.

I do not think many managers would succeed with this bunch because they have proven many times they are unable to raise their game to a certain level to win constantly.

Our whole defence is beyond shocking, the way they fall apart under any pressure is insane , its like amateur hour most of the time.

If ETH got a whole new defence, one decent midfielder and a striker, then I would be quite happy to give him another season.

But to be honest, he looked like a broken man after the last game.

The vast majority of our current players have only had Ole and ETH as manager at United. But the key point to keep in mind is that the difference between a top manager and the rest is the ability to get a tune out of players and help them reach top level Football. And you are right not many managers would succeed with this bunch, not many managers would succeed with any bunch, that's why most top clubs have had as many managers as United in the past 10 years, elite managers are rare.