He’s not a bad manager. He’s a similar level to Emery. Look at the job Martino did before he steadied them.
Ernesto Valverde
- Thread starter El Jefe
- Start date
This was a trophy that was there for the taking, and he made the exact same mistakes he made in both the Roma game and the Liverpool game the previous week. If he wanted to defend a lead, he should have played a third CB and told him "sit behind the others and if the ball comes anywhere near you, smash it into orbit". Or go out to cut Liverpool open and get a goal. Not just a weird halfway house where the general plan is "do nothing, and hope Messi can conjour something despite being triple marked at times".
He has also allowed the squad to slowly grow a core of pudgy aging players in a Euro era where athleticism and searing pace are matched together with technical ability. It's not enough to "just" be technical anymore with teams like City and Liverpool out there. These guys need to be replaced, with someone with verve and energy to match the new players coming in.
Valencia have drawn with Barca in both league games. That is an easily loseable final.
He has also allowed the squad to slowly grow a core of pudgy aging players in a Euro era where athleticism and searing pace are matched together with technical ability. It's not enough to "just" be technical anymore with teams like City and Liverpool out there. These guys need to be replaced, with someone with verve and energy to match the new players coming in.
Valencia have drawn with Barca in both league games. That is an easily loseable final.
I said at the beginning of the season, and kept repeating it all the way until we eliminated United, that we cannot win the Champions League with Valverde. He is simply not on this level, his tactics are essentially defensive and reactionary. You can see this in pretty much any game we play against an opponent that has enough quality to challenge us - we cede possession, or at the very least it drops significantly and we tailor our football to the opponent. Some may call this pragmatic, I’d call it cowardice.
Valverde is not only not fit for this level, he’s also a coward. Was and still is, and this is why we cannot match the biggest teams. We beat Madrid this year because they’re in transition, but we still needed luck, misses from the Madrid players and Ter Stegen heroics in two of the three games. And this after the 5-1 against Lopetegui. This shows you that our level remains the same - average - and our results depend on how the opposition does. Come across a good team that plays football and we have no answers.
When I wrote about my lack of confidence in Valverde earlier in the season, people said excuses are already being prepared for a bottle job by Messi. How’s this for a bottle job then? We bested the Roma debacle and this can only be down to the manager. The players were afraid, they got shaken at Anfield and we disappeared as a team. That’s a major no-go for a club that aims to win the Champions League and it all stems from the low level of our manager. No tactics, no guts, no motivation for the team.
He has to go as soon as possible. I wouldn’t allow him the decency of managing Barça in the Copa Final because he doesn’t deserve it after two historic meltdowns. The only reason we aren’t prime examples of choking on the biggest stage is that PSG is around. Remove them and the biggest bottle jobs in recent Champions League history belong to us. This is horrific and both of those happened under Valverde.
Valverde is not only not fit for this level, he’s also a coward. Was and still is, and this is why we cannot match the biggest teams. We beat Madrid this year because they’re in transition, but we still needed luck, misses from the Madrid players and Ter Stegen heroics in two of the three games. And this after the 5-1 against Lopetegui. This shows you that our level remains the same - average - and our results depend on how the opposition does. Come across a good team that plays football and we have no answers.
When I wrote about my lack of confidence in Valverde earlier in the season, people said excuses are already being prepared for a bottle job by Messi. How’s this for a bottle job then? We bested the Roma debacle and this can only be down to the manager. The players were afraid, they got shaken at Anfield and we disappeared as a team. That’s a major no-go for a club that aims to win the Champions League and it all stems from the low level of our manager. No tactics, no guts, no motivation for the team.
He has to go as soon as possible. I wouldn’t allow him the decency of managing Barça in the Copa Final because he doesn’t deserve it after two historic meltdowns. The only reason we aren’t prime examples of choking on the biggest stage is that PSG is around. Remove them and the biggest bottle jobs in recent Champions League history belong to us. This is horrific and both of those happened under Valverde.
klopp has a good record against barcelona. his tactics are troublesome. no matter which team he is managing... so long as he has decent players... he will get results against barcelona 7/10 times
at the nou camp it was like liverpool were at home and suffered a shock defeat. the high pressing... coaching
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Koeman to replace him according to the spanish press.
Koeman could work, whoever the manager is they need to restore the team first ethic. Messi is bigger than the club, and despite having very talented squad, they rely to much on one player.
Clearly significant changes required for CL away games given almost identical disastrous away CL defeats two seasons in a row.
Clearly significant changes required for CL away games given almost identical disastrous away CL defeats two seasons in a row.
Klopp has never played against Barcelona and he made a point of highlighting that particular fact in his pre match conferences, but that aside and going slightly off topic I think him never having any experiences against Barca essentially highlights how much of a class manager he is because even after his team got thrashed in the 1st leg he still knew his team would go through.
Now getting back on topic, I don’t think that debacle happens for Barca if they had a similarly world class manager. I’m no Arrigo Sacchi but even I could see they were better off playing a defensive game by playing three at the back. He also should have had the balls to not play that wee gobs**** Coutinho at Anfield because literally everyone who knows their stuff knew he would come and shit the bed.
i know but in the couple of friendlies they played he always came out on top. edit: and now in a serious match. he has the beating of barcelona... barcelona under valverde. barca were very nervous at home... struggling to get out of their own penalty box.
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His approach is largely "just Messi will do something" which is something Barca have relied on too much. It's not an accident that they won a Treble in 2015 with world class Neymar and Suarez also operating around Messi, so you can't just double mark him and close down the attack.
Imaging thinking they hire Koeman and that makes them CL contenders. 
0-4 vs. PSG
0-3 vs. Juve
0-2 vs. Atletico
That happened before Valverde.
Pep himself with 100 point winning City lost 1-5 over 2 legs against a worse Liverpool with Karius in goal. All the fans (90 % of the Barca fanbase) who joined around 2009 onwards will be in for a surprise when Valverde is gone. They think winning domestic doubles means nothing, they HAVE to win CL. Boy oh boy will I laugh when they hire a real clown as coach (Valverde ain't that at all) and both Madrid clubs pip them domestically as well.
0-4 vs. PSG
0-3 vs. Juve
0-2 vs. Atletico
That happened before Valverde.
Pep himself with 100 point winning City lost 1-5 over 2 legs against a worse Liverpool with Karius in goal. All the fans (90 % of the Barca fanbase) who joined around 2009 onwards will be in for a surprise when Valverde is gone. They think winning domestic doubles means nothing, they HAVE to win CL. Boy oh boy will I laugh when they hire a real clown as coach (Valverde ain't that at all) and both Madrid clubs pip them domestically as well.
He made the exact same mistakes as last season, the team never showed up to the away leg and were content to just pass it around for 90 minutes without any urgency at all
I don't know who could come in and take them up a level there isn't many managers out there that are available I don't think
I don't know who could come in and take them up a level there isn't many managers out there that are available I don't think
Deeper problems than manager.
Suarez 32
Messi 31
Pique 32
Rakitic 31
Busquets 30
Vidal 31
Alba 30
+ Dembélé perma-crooked.
Years of decline awaiting (I don't rate De Jong by the way, like Coutinho he is just part of a great collective, never have I felt he was top 3 player for Ajax).
Yeah their definitely needs to be some rejuvenation made of the team, a lot of their transfers also haven't worked out since Guardiola left they have had a lot of expensive misses
He should just have parked the bus. His team is individually superior even when every one is fit and that has always been the most reliable tactic in beating a Klopp team, especially when they're playing at home and you're leading. Even Pep, the most stubborn of all managers, realized it. If you go all out against them (or play some half assed hybrid tactic like Valverde did in Anfield) there is always a pretty big chance that you get battered, no matter how good you are.
Domestic doubles are important, yes; but they were won on autopilot with Messi doing eveything other than defending. Valverde was just there, any other spanish manager would have won those 2018 and 2019 ligas, especially with Atletico slowly but clearly losing gas since 2016 and Madrid with two consecutive mediocre liga campaigns.Imaging thinking they hire Koeman and that makes them CL contenders.
0-4 vs. PSG
0-3 vs. Juve
0-2 vs. Atletico
That happened before Valverde.
Of course half of the squad is guilty as well and has to go (couple of years).
Pep himself with 100 point winning City lost 1-5 over 2 legs against a worse Liverpool with Karius in goal. All the fans (90 % of the Barca fanbase) who joined around 2009 onwards will be in for a surprise when Valverde is gone. They think winning domestic doubles means nothing, they HAVE to win CL. Boy oh boy will I laugh when they hire a real clown as coach (Valverde ain't that at all) and both Madrid clubs pip them domestically as well.
Koeman or the new manager is supposed to win another treble with that squad (plus new signings coming) just like Juve, PSG, City or Madrid. Winning ligas is simply not enough when you are Top Elite. And the only prestigious league left is the PL anyway.
Valverde himself said many times this season that he didn't feel that winning the UCL was mandatory: the words of a joyless, clueless non-elite loser.
He tried to. His 4-4-2 is focused on the defensive side of the game — the closest thing to it is Simeone’s 4-4-2 interpretation. The problem is, with Vidal (who individually had a good game though) and Rakitic next to Busquets they sorely lacked press-resistance. And in Messi & Suarez they’ve had 2 players who didn’t participate in the defensive side of the game (and failed to punish Liverpool on the counter, despite having multiple chances due to Klopp’s suicidally adventurous pressing).
Coutinho and Rakitic shouldn't have played a single minute at Anfield. And the substitution of Vidal was the final nail in the coffin.
Barça should have played with:
Stegen-Semedo-Piqué-Vermaelen-Lenglet-Alba
Roberto-Vidal-Busquets
Messi-Suárez
Yes, a bus, looking for a Alba-Messi-Suarez counter. But it's hard to moan if your team is in the final. The only objective was a) don't concede. 90 minutes left till the final.
But you said it: half-assed hybrid tactics from a joyless loser who relied too much on Crapinho and Messi.
In my opinion, his approach was neither attacking nor parking the bus. It was pretty similar to how they played at the Camp Nou and how they've been set up all season IMO, which is still rather defensive and reactive relying on Messi to bail him out (which worked in the first leg tbf), but his fullbacks were still pushing forwards quite regularly. I'm not sure if he intended to park the bus, but in the end this definitely wasn't how they actually played.
Barcelona has never, ever played PTB. You think they would change their entire philosophy and tacticts for just one game? If they had tried parking the bus they would have been down 5-0 by half time. You are basically saying that the hole Valverde dug up for himself, he sould have digged deeper.
Hindsight is 20:20, but that approach you post would have been absolutely horrible. Barcelona had way more chances of going trough with what Valverde did than that.
Valverde wanted to trade punches. He knew he would concede chances, but he would also create chances, the same exact game as the first leg. On the first leg, he won every single coin toss, Liverpool missed all their chances, and Barcelona scored theirs, mainly because Messi played at his best. However, on the second leg, football being football, the complete opposite happened. He lost every coin toss. He thought it would end up 1-1, 2-2, 2-1, 1-2 or something like that, both teams hurting each other, and it actually makes sense, thats what it should have happened, except, again, he loss every coin toss.
I dont blame him 100% for that loss, but i do believe that he drifted away too much from Barcelona's philosophy. Controlling the game its something that Barcelona needs like water.
A Barcelona with Messi on his current form should never go out to "trade punches". That team should go out to control the game from beggining to end and capitalize on Messi's greatnes and good collective play. Thats why a different coach is needed.
Valverde is a good coach, but the way he lost on two different CL campaings in a row is too much. That on top of the shitty play style Barca currently has, its enough to tell him good bye and good luck.
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Perhaps my suggestion of a 5-3-2 would have been too radical, but definitely a defensive 4-4-2 was needed to survive Anfield.
His 4-4-2 with Rakitic and Coutinho was the same "trade blows" formation you mention, that never truly worked in CN (midfield overrun but a solid match by the CBs and Semedo in the second half prevented the 3-1 or 3-2). Luck was on their side in CN (3-0), the mark of a UCL Champion: luck when its needed, luck also counts.
All Valverde had to do was to put Roberto-Vidal-Busquets-Arthur in midfield, and Semedo as RB, if his idea was to find a balance between defense (4-4-2) and control of the game (Arthur), forcing Liverpool to chase the ball in midfield and play violently, which in a UCL semis often means yellow cards. But Rakitic and Cou in the Starting XI and then the substitution of Vidal was literally the worst mistake he could have done. So blatant that it's pretty much obvious he's clueless about how to turn Barça into a pragmatic-reactive defensive/attacking 4-4-2 (not what Barça fans want anyway). It's also pretty much obvious that he's overall a joyless guy, unable to properly motivate and guide the players before "dangerous/this is it" games. He has to go. Even Paco Jémez would win LaLiga with this squad.
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Barca have routinely parked the bus with over rotation of the ball in their history.
Not all park the buses are 11 men in their own box. Its why their (and Peps) away record is below average
Not all park the buses are 11 men in their own box. Its why their (and Peps) away record is below average
Imagine thinking anyone who criticizes the manager joined around 2009 onwards.Imaging thinking they hire Koeman and that makes them CL contenders.
0-4 vs. PSG
0-3 vs. Juve
0-2 vs. Atletico
That happened before Valverde.
Pep himself with 100 point winning City lost 1-5 over 2 legs against a worse Liverpool with Karius in goal. All the fans (90 % of the Barca fanbase) who joined around 2009 onwards will be in for a surprise when Valverde is gone. They think winning domestic doubles means nothing, they HAVE to win CL. Boy oh boy will I laugh when they hire a real clown as coach (Valverde ain't that at all) and both Madrid clubs pip them domestically as well.
The results you mention were bad, but we turned the PSG tie around, while the other two results were against defensively strong teams who kept us out. Valverde's first collapse came against a weaker team that had no business knocking us out like that, and his second collapse came despite having the warning of the first one that happened to this same team, all while having perfect circumstances and luck on our side in the tie.
It makes no difference if a player is 25 or 35, Valverde is equally incompetent. In his Barça, Champions League, World Cup and Euro winners look like clowns who can't find their feet in a difficult game to save their lives.
Might be going there to get revenge for 2006 and implode the club. Koeman's Benfica knocked out SAF's United and european champions Liverpool before getting robbed big time at Camp Nou in the 2006 quarter finals.
Valverde is a terrible manager and I have maintained this ever since his first season. People probably looked only at domestic trophies and not their actual performance on the pitch.
Is Barcelona's board in some sort of winter hibernation? How on earth he hasn't been sacked yet?
Last time Koeman managed in Spain he almost relegated Valencia
Doesn't strike me as a Barcelona manager who fits into the Cryuff mould. His managerial style would likely suit the English leagues as opposed to the possession based adopted in Spain.
Liverpool even in the first leg felt like the more dangerous team, Barcelona should never be a team to drop off, soak up pressure and counter attack. They have enough clinical players in different positions to control a game.
Liverpool even in the first leg felt like the more dangerous team, Barcelona should never be a team to drop off, soak up pressure and counter attack. They have enough clinical players in different positions to control a game.
Koemann would be a terrible appointment.
He also doesn't adhere to Cruyff's style and I don't think he'd be too dissimilar from Valverde.
He also doesn't adhere to Cruyff's style and I don't think he'd be too dissimilar from Valverde.
Whatever.
Anyway, proof that Koeman always was and is a good.manager. He gets the stick for his "failure" with Valencia, but he had to deal with major assholes and vacas sagradas there (Albelda) or even backstabbing jokers (Joaquin). He won the Copa del Rey.
Maybe because sacking a manager who has walked everything domestically for 2 years would be stupid when no one clearly better is even available?
Imagine sacking a coach for not winning the treble.
They haven't played Cruyffs style in years?
That's not a problem, are we still pretending they're more than a club? They sold out years ago.
That's not the reason. It's the way they were eliminated twice in a row.
This ain't England or the PL.
Bayern, Madrid, Barça, current PSG or even Juve with CR operate differently. Might add City as well and their UCL dreams with Pep on board.
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it's the way they lost for the second year in row that is tragic, not the fact they didn't win the CL. you can't have 4-1 against Roma last year and still lose, you can't have 3-0 last week and still go out. I mean, you could say Atletico were rather unlucky to lose both finals vs Madrid, and I think both fans and the board would find it easier to accept and forgive if the same happened to them. but Barca weren't unlucky at all, they were simply lost in both games and their faith in manager is completely gone now.
it also doesn't help that he's not getting much from any of their expensive signings.
it also doesn't help that he's not getting much from any of their expensive signings.
they have been god awful for the first half of the season and the only reason they win la liga this year is, because the competition is worse and Messi carried them all the way. Its criminal how bad Barca played for the majority of this season. A team with their quality shouldn't have to rely on one player making the difference week after week. The only other player who can be really happy with his performance over the last 1,5-2 seasons is Ter Stegen, which is quite telling. There is also no tactical development and very few individuals improved.
If Barca wants to improve they need new tactical inputs and allow some of the younger talents to grow/increase their responsibilities. Barca can't rely on Pique, busquets, Rakitic and Suarez to be the central axis of their team.
He'd be sacked for having a mother of all meltdowns for the second time in a bloody row. Obviously a theoretical domestic double with a CL semi exit is a great season, it's the manner in which they lost that is the problem.
You can bet if he god forbid stays for the next season, Busquets, Rakitić and Suarez will play nearly every minute, the same as this season. The man is completely oblivious, he has his pre-determined favourites in the squad, reality of their current ability and form is obviously not his concern.
I hope Koeman stays with the Dutch team, they have a good thing going.
The voice of reason. Hear hear!
He is awful. People who want him to stay must really hate Barca. The way he set up twice the same way away to Roma and Liverpool He treated it like going away to Eibar or Levante with the title in the bag without really caring defensively or attacking. Bet Klopp couldnt believe his luck once he saw that team and formation and the opportunities he would get to press the shit out of them.
Awful manager, what is his particular strength, something where he is the best among the managers? Good football? Good defensively? Good attacking? Great tactician? Great motivator? Promoting youth? Making players/the team better? He has nothing going for him where you really say thats where he is the top dog, the future looks bright. A nice guy for sure, someone that doesnt rock the boat, but that is what he is, a decent and nice manager. No where near good enough for the top teams though. He looks to me like a short term solution, someone to take til the top manager becomes available. The only issue is he has one of the best teams and talents in the world and does only the minimum with it. He is clearly out of his depth. The Semedo for Coutinho or Roberto substitution must be a running joke for Barca fans. Predictable and lame, he is a reactionary manager that makes changes once the game has slipped away, instead of influencing the direction of the game by himself.
He treated it like going away to Eibar or Levante with the title in the bag without really caring defensively or attacking. Bet Klopp couldnt believe his luck once he saw that team and formation and the opportunities he would get to press the shit out of them.Awful manager, what is his particular strength, something where he is the best among the managers? Good football? Good defensively? Good attacking? Great tactician? Great motivator? Promoting youth? Making players/the team better? He has nothing going for him where you really say thats where he is the top dog, the future looks bright. A nice guy for sure, someone that doesnt rock the boat, but that is what he is, a decent and nice manager. No where near good enough for the top teams though. He looks to me like a short term solution, someone to take til the top manager becomes available. The only issue is he has one of the best teams and talents in the world and does only the minimum with it. He is clearly out of his depth. The Semedo for Coutinho or Roberto substitution must be a running joke for Barca fans. Predictable and lame, he is a reactionary manager that makes changes once the game has slipped away, instead of influencing the direction of the game by himself.
That's not even the truth. Barca played very well in the first half of the season. 5-1 against Madrid without Messi, 4-2 away to Tottenham with a very dominant possession display, 1-1 vs. Inter away (result aside very dominant display, also without Messi) etc.
The "only Messi did anything" thing is totally exaggerated as usual. Messi didn't join Barca last season.
Ter Stegen is also overrated now. What safe did he have to make against United for example? ONE in the entire tie against Sanchez after 175 minutes. What saves did he have to make against Liverpool? One straight shot at him from Milner. The rest he let everything in. Lyon in the first leg didn't have a shot on target either.
Barca players did PSG level bottling. That can't be simply attributed to the coach. He isn't a clueless hack, a clueless hack doesn't get 92 % undefeated statistics. He might not be elite or era defining or instill a specific style but he is also not clueless. For example I don't think Pochettino is better even though you could say that because Spurs are in the final of the CL now. But if Barca got through to the CL final after surviving a 96 minute VAR call by the skin of the teeth then proceeded to get completely torn apart by Ajax, only for 1 individual player to score a hattrick in the last 45 minutes of the entire tie to win it in the 96th minute, that coach would be call a fraud at Barca who only survives with luck and individual quality.
And how did ten Hag smash Madrid and Juve but then bottled it to Spurs in just 45 minutes? Because it's football, these things happen.