ETH on United philosophy: “Built a side to play direct football”… “Impossible to play like Ajax”

[Mainoldo]

You do realise Murtough hired ETH and ETH works for Murtough right?
The point I am making is Murtough should not be taking orders from ETH, its not surprising though because Murtough has never had this job before and has zero experience in the role.

And if you read my post you can see I said I'm not absolving ETH, point is though Murtough is accountable here and not ETH because ultimately its his decision

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’ve said Murtough should have said no. But seeing as he got what the manager wanted it’s on ETH. It’s his fault.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Maybe he's not allowed to get rid of players like Bruno and Rashford who are clearly not suited to his system?

2 Things

1. We are doomed
2. ETH is thick for taking the job knowing that he wont be allowed to ship certain untouchables.

 

[2 man midfield]

The excuses made to absolve him of blame are getting ridiculous

Am I wrong? Are they excuses or just the facts?

How much do you think we should be spending when we're already the highest bar whatever maniac stuff Chelsea are pulling?

Hojlund, Onana, Mount.
That's 170-180m which is huge.

Did you think we'd be lashing 400m instead?

Say what you like about the wisdom of these signings, that's quite another question.

It’s a fair old whack, but you can’t look at the squad we’ve got and think it’s enough. We’ve got a 20 year old starting every game because the alternative is Antony martial.

 

[antohan]

Its exactly what he did, they didn't start playing attacking football till the 3rd season, they struggled to score goals before that and focused more on being defensively solid for the first 2 seasons

Pragmatism is to be expected, but did he go out and tell Arse fans he wanted to go back to the DNA of the George Graham era?

Most of us have been putting up with this shower of shite and basketball derby scores assuming it was the necessary pain of transitioning to a better future. Now we are told we never planned to go anywhere.

 

[lsd]

He was hired to replicate what he did at Ajax and would have agreed that when he came.

Now he is saying he can't do that and thus has failed by his own admission.

The only question is why is still here?

Every second we fail to sack him is an error on our part.

 

[Cassidy]

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’ve said Murtough should have said no. But seeing as he got what the manager wanted it’s on ETH. It’s his fault.

You are disagreeing with me then

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Every manager has a set of quotes that turned the fan base and lead to their eventual sacking. Undoubtedly this is ETH's own.

He's been such a disappointment.

Still lost for words tbh. I really thought he was trying to implement his Ajax system but he chose to die on the "UTD DNA" hill.

 

[astracrazy]

I just don't get it. What happened over preseason? Did someone above decide he has to play the "Utd way"?

Ok, it was slow progress last season. But pre-world cup at least you could see the direction. Post world cup I doubt there was anytime to work on anything.

Why change something that got us 3rd, a cup and a final? I can't imagine EtH being that daft.

It explains why it feels there is no direction, style or identity this season. EtH doesn't even know how to play this way.

 

[Cassidy]

Pragmatism is to be expected, but did he go out and tell Arse fans he wanted to go back to the DNA of the George Graham era?

Most of us have been putting up with this shower of shite and basketball derby scores assuming it was the necessary pain of transitioning to a better future. Now we are told we never planned to go anywhere.

ETHs vision for United is basically similar Klopps Liverpool fast intense press and fast transitions high up the pitch. I don't see an issue with that, just because fans didn't realise that ETH plays different styles at all his previous clubs based on personal and club vision, does not mean he should be blamed for that.
He is also on record saying we need to improve in possession, so I don't see the issue with what he is saying. We are already taking the pain of the transition because this season he is no longer hiding the players like he did last season.

Execution of the plan not working out so far is another issue altogether, what he said is not a problem, he never intended for us to play how Ajax did and he was not hired to do so, fans having a different picture in mind is not his fault. He has never once said he wanted us to play like Ajax and neither has anyone at the club

 

[The Purley King]

Reading between the lines there is too much interference from above Ten Hag. There is no focused approach. There are undroppable players that Ten Hag has no control over.
Sounds like a classic case of too many cooks

I’m sorry but that is almost certainly wrong.
He’s the fecking boss.
He wants to drop the entire first XI he can do it.
The problem he hasn’t got the bollocks to drop those that need it most.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I just don't get it. What happened over preseason? Did someone above decide he has to play the "Utd way"?

Ok, it was slow progress last season. But pre-world cup at least you could see the direction. Post world cup I doubt there was anytime to work on anything.

Why change something that got us 3rd, a cup and a final? I can't imagine EtH being that daft.

Same thing happened with LvG. We did so good with his 433 and suddenly next season he decided to play the double pivot with Memphis at 10. Failed incredibly.

 

[podurban2]

ETHs vision for United is basically Klopps Liverpool fast intense press and fast transitions. I don't see an issue with that, just because fans didn't realise that ETH plays different styles are all his previous clubs, does not mean he should be blamed for that.

Ok so why did we buy Antony? Seems more like ETH doesn’t have a clear plan.

 

[r0663664]

I guess he needs another billion pound to get the team playing his way. If a billion is given to him, I cannot see immediate success. He bought Antony for god sake who until today has no right foot and couldn't care less about crossing. How about Mount? Running like a headless chicken contributing nothing. Onana who has butter fingers who gives me a scare when close down. Maybe we should kept Rangnick as DOF, he probably identify better targets than ETH. He is probably against signing Antony, Martinez and Casimero. We might have 3 better prospects playing with a lower combined transfer fee. This club is really f-up at so many levels. Maybe we get relegated 3 years from now.

 

[astracrazy]

Most of us have been putting up with this shower of shite and basketball derby scores assuming it was the necessary pain of transitioning to a better future. Now we are told we never planned to go anywhere.

Quiet concerning when you put it like that.

 

[Mainoldo]

You are disagreeing with me then

No you don’t seem to understand yes and no.

 

[astracrazy]

Ok so why did we buy Antony? Seems more like ETH doesn’t have a clear plan.

And Mount and Erikson

 

[antohan]

Ok so why did we buy Antony? Seems more like ETH doesn’t have a clear plan.

He is our Salah

 

[Cassidy]

Ok so why did we buy Antony? Seems more like ETH doesn’t have a clear plan.

Because he is adept in the pressing structure high up the pitch and understands the pressing triggers etc, he also works hard off the ball and is good at retaining the ball under pressure (which you need to be when playing this style)
Because you have to not give the ball away in silly areas when the team is implementing an aggressive press (something we have not been good at this season)

Antony has not worked out, that's fine, not every signing will work out. Pep signed plenty of players that did not work out in his first 2 season at City, same for Klopp at Pool

A signing not working out is not an indication of not having a plan

 

[Jev]

I want ETH to be sacked but those comments are way overblown. He's not saying what the OP is suggesting, that he bought players to make us more like Ajax and then changed his mind. Doesn't say that anywhere. He's merely saying that a manager should adapt to the players available to him, and that United have different players than Ajax.

It's a storm in a teacup. Just people insisting on misunderstanding a non-English speaker.

Much more concerning were his post-match comments where he said the first half went "perfectly". If that's his idea of a perfect United performance, that's sackable in itself.

 

[Cassidy]

I’m sorry but that is almost certainly wrong.
He’s the fecking boss.
He wants to drop the entire first XI he can do it.
The problem he hasn’t got the bollocks to drop those that need it most.

This is proven wrong, he's dropped plenty of players some very high profile.
He has not dropped players who last season did well for him, that's not the same thing.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

It’s a genuinely terrible sign when you lose a Derby 3-0 at home and the reaction of most of the Fanbase is ‘meh nothing unexpected’. I think the fact that 18 months into his reign we are still in such a stage is just terrible

 

[fallengt]

Rangnick didn't help himself in fairness, his time as manager was an abject failure. Plus the transition plan that Rangnick offered amounted to basically "replace everyone", which isn't viable for a team that can only afford 3 signings per summer.

Or maybe he could say "You can't play from the back with De gea, TenHag mate. Sign Onana he's free". Could've saved club 50m since we ended up replacing DDG anyway.
Or "Oh you want to play transition football. This Szoboslaiz lad, my mates at Red Bull really rate him". How about that? He has a scouting network so we our list wouldn't be limited to ex Eredise players

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Has anyone confirmed that this isn’t fake news? A journalist from the Second Captains podcast said he trawled through the Viaplay feeds and couldn’t find the quotes anywhere.

 

[acid_fuji]

ETHs vision for United is basically similar Klopps Liverpool fast intense press and fast transitions high up the pitch. I don't see an issue with that, just because fans didn't realise that ETH plays different styles at all his previous clubs based on personal and club vision, does not mean he should be blamed for that.
He is also on record saying we need to improve in possession, so I don't see the issue with what he is saying. We are already taking the pain of the transition because this season he is no longer hiding the players like he did last season.

Execution of the plan not working out so far is another issue altogether, what he said is not a problem, he never intended for us to play how Ajax did and he was not hired to do so, fans having a different picture in mind is not his fault. He has never once said he wanted us to play like Ajax and neither has anyone at the club

+1 on this. Wonder where people actually are taking this idea that he came for this specifc style. I‘m actually ok with having a style similar to Liverpool.

 

[The Hilton]

Or maybe he could say "You can't play from the back with De gea, TenHag mate. Sign Onana he's free"

Onana had an agreement with Inter in like Februrary, we were way too late to get him.

 

[astracrazy]

I want ETH to be sacked but those comments are way overblown. He's not saying what the OP is suggesting, that he bought players to make us more like Ajax. Doesn't say that anywhere. He's merely saying that a manager should adapt to the players available to him, and that United have different players than Ajax.

It's a storm in a teacup. Just people insisting on misunderstanding a non-English speaker.

Much more concerning were his post-match comments where he described the first half as "perfect". If that's his idea of a perfect United performance, that's stackable in itself.

Well not really. This sort of goes all the way back to Raphs speech about identity.

If this "DNA" is the way we want to play then the board should have brought in a manager whos style is similar.

If you bring in a manager who has a way of playing then the team has to be built around that style, not the other way round. Surely.

City and Liverpool brought their managers in and then built a team to their style of play. Not the other way round. You wouldn't sign Pep and tell him no possession football, we don't have the players for that. That would be ridiculous.

 

[r0663664]

Rangnick didn't help himself in fairness, his time as manager was an abject failure. Plus the transition plan that Rangnick offered amounted to basically "replace everyone", which isn't viable for a team that can only afford 3 signings per summer.

I think this is not true, the club has a fixes budget and not number of players. As long as the manager can balance the book, he can buy as many players as he wants. The transfer fee for Antony could gotten 2 players and Casemiro may also got 2 players. Hoijund could have bought for a much lower fee (maybe he was under Rangick's radar). Onana was a free transfer from Ajax to Inter and again, there should be keeper that is cheaper. Mount was 1 season walking from Chelsea on free transfer. ETH screws up big time with transfer. There could be more players at United with similar quality and potential. I still cannot why the club sanction these stupid moves. All involved in transfer discussion should be sack with immediate effect.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

feck the Man Utd DNA style of play. It’s not good enough ETH.

 

[Cassidy]

Well not really. This sort of goes all the way back to Raphs speech about identity.

If this "DNA" is the way we want to play then the board should have brought in a manager whos style is similar.

If you bring in a manager who has a way of playing then the team has to be built around that style, not the other way round. Surely.

City and Liverpool brought their managers in and then built a team to their style of play. Not the other way round. You wouldn't sign Pep and tell him no possession football, we don't have the players for that. That would be ridiculous.

So Ajax played the same style as Utretcht who played the same style as Go Ahead Eagles who played the same style as Bayern II?
Maybe you should educate yourself before making baseless assertions, we didn't bring in a manager who is fixed to a specific style of play
ETH himself has reiterated this plenty of times

 

[TsuWave]

Exactly. Ten Hag could well turn out to be as good as Klopp if we give him another couple of seasons. If we give ETH five seasons, he'll be the next Fergie for sure.

I don’t even know when people are/aren’t taking the piss anymore

 

[TsuWave]

Reading between the lines there is too much interference from above Ten Hag. There is no focused approach. There are undroppable players that Ten Hag has no control over.
Sounds like a classic case of too many cooks

think it would be prudent for people not to buy into these conspiracy theories, to be honest

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[The Hilton]

I think this is not true, the club has a fixes budget and not number of players. As long as the manager can balance the book, he can buy as many players as he wants. The transfer fee for Antony could gotten 2 players and Casemiro may also got 2 players. Hoijund could have bought for a much lower fee (maybe he was under Rangick's radar). Onana was a free transfer from Ajax to Inter and again, there should be keeper that is cheaper. Mount was 1 season walking from Chelsea on free transfer. ETH screws up big time with transfer. There could be more players at United with similar quality and potential. I still cannot why the club sanction these stupid moves. All involved in transfer discussion should be sack with immediate effect.

What you think is irrelevant, Ole has made it clear that he was limited to 3 major signings per season, it's a known constraint on the team.

You're blaming ETH for the transfers, when the club sanctioned these moves because they didn't have any better ideas. We don't have a good talent identification and recruitment system, and so we're relying on a manager to do a job that shouldn't be his.

On top of that, some of your examples are bogus. Onana signed his contract before ETH joined, Mount was wanted by multiple clubs and would have gone to Liverpool or Arsenal if not us. Hojlund wasn't available for a lower fee, especially as clubs knew we were desperate for a striker.

Anthony and Casemiro cost a lot, I agree, and the transfer dealings of the club have been poor, but the problem is that target identification shouldn't be the manager's job, that should be handled by an entire department as it is for well run clubs. Until we have that, no manager will be set up to succeed.

 

[desirere]

Guys, seriously, take a chill pill and relax. There is nothing wrong with what the manager said. Does anyone here truly believe that there is a manager out there to get us playing good football? Does anyone think changing the manager makes any difference whatsoever? If the answer to any of those questions is „yes“, please try and look at the bigger picture, spanning from 2008/2009. We have serious issues that were unfortunately left for far too long, the consequences are going to be severe and only God knows when and if at all we ever are going to be truly „back“.

The only thing that can save us is the change of ownership, allowing us to make s quick reset and hopefully steer us in the right direction. The other thing being the current owners do all these necessary changes, which is less likely.

Oh yeah, the „serious issues“ are things like: Player recruitment(Who? When? For which manager?, Management decisions (Picking who, not supporting the manager, sacking in wrong moments),THE fn scouting department (we have one, right?), Sport science investment, Sports facilities investment (stadium, training facilities etc.), Financial decisions altogether (Player evaluation, player wages & idiotic constract extensions, dividends, Not selling the club and further worsening the situation). Also one thing that I absolutely loathe, allowing the security our players seem to have with underperforming for managers at critical times. At certain points I would loved to have just released the whole team (sold who you can) and started from scratch with our academy and smart purchases.

And just consider this from the manager’s perspective, the players he guided to a trophy and another final, coupled with the highest finish in some time (first time to win a trophy and finish in top 4 since the invention of the wheel), have seemingly given up on him. How do you expect him to teach a philosophy when the players aren’t responding?

If things stay in this limbo, better just keep the manager, please no more rinse and repeat. Erik is the correct man.

 

[fallengt]

think it would be prudent for people not to buy into these conspiracy theories, to be honest

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the only player that fit this bill is Mason Mount unless he's talking the piss and also count Onana/Hojlund.
Casemiro is another one but he was a panic signing.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

But thats the point of hiring coaches and having daily training sessions isn't it, to train players to play a certain way. I don't understand how clubs with the fraction of the budget of ours are able to play this way, but it's a seemingly impossible job at United?

Exactly, why is it that we can’t get a way of playing drilled into these or any players we have had in the last 10yrs. I don’t even care what that style is anymore I just want to see us play like we’ve done something in training!

 

[Reiver]

Exactly, why is it that we can’t get a way of playing drilled into these or any players we have had in the last 10yrs. I don’t even care what that style is anymore I just want to see us play like we’ve done something in training!

LVG managed it, but I know what you mean. I'm not even sure what style some of them were going for.

 

[The Purley King]

This is proven wrong, he's dropped plenty of players some very high profile.
He has not dropped players who last season did well for him, that's not the same thing.

So how long do Bruno and rashford have to stink the place out before they get dropped?
It’s already been 10+ games for the pair of them.
This is not a meritocracy at the moment.
And it will kill ETH if he sticks with it.

 

[stevoc]

Sir Jim and Dave Brailsford are already calling the shots and Hag has been told to play Brexitball. Pump it up the park. They don't like it up em.

Find a dark room and have a lie down mate.

 

[Zed is not dead]

ETHs vision for United is basically similar Klopps Liverpool fast intense press and fast transitions high up the pitch. I don't see an issue with that, just because fans didn't realise that ETH plays different styles at all his previous clubs based on personal and club vision, does not mean he should be blamed for that.
He is also on record saying we need to improve in possession, so I don't see the issue with what he is saying. We are already taking the pain of the transition because this season he is no longer hiding the players like he did last season.

Execution of the plan not working out so far is another issue altogether, what he said is not a problem, he never intended for us to play how Ajax did and he was not hired to do so, fans having a different picture in mind is not his fault. He has never once said he wanted us to play like Ajax and neither has anyone at the club

Pretty much this.
People are getting overboard because he said he wasn’t trying to implement the Ajax style while they though he would even though nobody said he would and even he said he wouldn’t.

At this point this place just wants to sack him

 

[Zed is not dead]

But thats the point of hiring coaches and having daily training sessions isn't it, to train players to play a certain way. I don't understand how clubs with the fraction of the budget of ours are able to play this way, but it's a seemingly impossible job at United?

Well because these clubs don’t play every 3 days and actually full weeks to train and limited travelling during the week.