More possession and more passes than Arsenal that half.
ETH: "We want to be the best transition team in the world"
- Thread starter sullydnl
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Which is why it's laughable when people say things like "get rid of ETH and hire De Zerbi". As if that would solve any of our underlying structural problems.
You can see the base of it in this first half.
That's not surprising actually. People ignore facts just to moan. There were periods we completely dominated but couldn't find a break.
I dont like the way of inviting pressure but that's what it is.
Our defence against Arsenal comprises of AWB, Dalot and Lindelof. The former two are bad in possession. The latter is average. They are not passing through anything even if they’re instructed to.
Superb goal, but it had to be perfect.
Aside from that we've not even had a sniff.
Aside from that we've not even had a sniff.
Really have to check the definition. Because either it has lost all meaning or I am watching a different game.
For all the (usual) moaning the tactics have worked fine. We scored a good goal but as usual we've given away an absolute freebie.
Across our own area yeah
Arsenal know we are only dangerous on the counter so just let us have the ball. They often do it and it has worked very well the last few years. Needed magic from rashford to break through.
When they chased the guy we looked like we couldn't stand the heat, especially after the changes at the back to players that have barely played in a long time
When they chased the guy we looked like we couldn't stand the heat, especially after the changes at the back to players that have barely played in a long time
We are transitioning outside of Top 6 presently. With the football we are playing at least.
Transition from taking the ball and giving away 5 seconds later.
But seriously, why does team looks clueless on counter attack? Thought that was the only thing United good at.
Every player tries to walk it in by himself instead of spotting teammates who making run
But seriously, why does team looks clueless on counter attack? Thought that was the only thing United good at.
Every player tries to walk it in by himself instead of spotting teammates who making run
In the first 30 minutes we were comfortably the worst transition team in the world. Then we did it brilliantly once
Hahaha
You ain’t gonna be the best transition team in the world with one of the worlds slowest midfield pairs. Casemiro and Eriksen have lots of qualities but quick incisive interceptions and transitions isn’t one of them! Actually find it bizarre that ETH can’t see that
We're starting to look like Van Gaal's United again with plenty of the ball and passes in areas that don't hurt the opposition for the sake of saying we had the ball. And very few ideas of how to actually use the ball to make openings
The writing was on the wall when he said this.
My translation was, "We are going to play Oleball, but just not as good".
We peaked playing this system from 2019-2021. Ole transition football actually got us goals, ETH's version is a mix of Oleball and boring LVG passing at the back.
My translation was, "We are going to play Oleball, but just not as good".
We peaked playing this system from 2019-2021. Ole transition football actually got us goals, ETH's version is a mix of Oleball and boring LVG passing at the back.
Except against Forrest and Spurs.
We were away from home against one of the best sides in the league. I think the tactics were ok
We would have been turned over if we had allowed them to have more of the ball and been more open
We would have been turned over if we had allowed them to have more of the ball and been more open
We've played on the counter against Arsenal since the majority of Sir Alex's time at the club. Relegation sides will have more of a threat going forward than we did in the first half
I agree we didn’t offer enough of a threat. Mainly as the midfield didnt get on the ball and pass forward. ETH even said so. Second half we played a bit more.
I don’t think that was down to tactics. The plan was not to just keep the ball at the back as ETH said they missed opportunities to pass forward.
I actually thought Arsenals defensive shape and Bruno going missing in yet another big game were the issues for us
I think a large reason for this is that none of our midfielders can carry the ball. So if the players can't do that, but are still keeping possession it means that once they receive the pass from the defense, they have to pass it back to a defender to keep the opposition press from winning it back. This is a micro improvement from some of our usual midfield who can't even do that well, but still lacks in getting us to stay up the pitch or creating chances. I would say that only Eriksen provides that safe passing option for our midfield, but also can't carry the ball. Casemiro and Bruno can do neither from their position.
You mix that in with Martial not being able to provide the wingers/fullbacks a runner to stretch the defense, nor even provide what he usually does in holding up the ball and it's tough for us to create from the back or even get the entire side further forward where Eriksen or Bruno can do something on the ball.
And that's with having two widemen who are not trustworthy in providing that themselves. Rashford is more of a moments player now, and Antony provides what our midfield should provide, but provides no attacking threat. Hence if you pass it off to them, Rashford's only weapons are to try to dribble past multiple players to shoot or pass it back, when he actually is getting the basics right. Antony will provide a wide option where he will dribble 10-20 yards, but then pass it back. Martial doesn't help Antony or Rashford. Antony doesn't have the capacity to create something for Rashford or Martial. Rashford doesn't want to create something for Antony or Martial. Best case scenario is that Antony improves in his shooting so that he can provide a Rashford like mini contribution to the final third (provide for himself).
What a mess. At this point, from an attacking point of view I'm actually more satisfied with my defenders than I am with the midfield or attackers. Meaning with Ten Hag's instructions I can only picture our defenders doing their job right. Onana might have to take more risks with his drifting forward in order to get our attack to be more potent.
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Well we surely are capable of playing one moment of quick counter with lightning pace of Rashford, Garnacho and Hojlund.
So you're saying we made progress!
We are a counter attacking team
I’m really confused as to what our “style of play” actually is. ETH himself says he wants us to be the best transitional team in the world which suggests to me he wants us to move the ball from back to front really quickly and effectively and yet when you watch us play, we knock the ball around the back line and Onana before eventually just hitting it long for Rashford to chase.
ETH bemoaned at the lack of forward passes in his post-match presser.
I believe the intent was to suck Arsenal in and then break with a vertical pass to bypass their press and take advantage of isolations/numerical superiorities.
We just didn't manage to find the forward passes until late in the 1st half.
Yesterday we had 2 examples of good transition actions (I am still not sure how this differs from counter attacking, seems like this phrase is just not so fashionable these days).
Both situations brought us goals.
The rest of the game we lumped the ball forward or passed in around between defenders.
If ETH thinks this is sustainable and will bring us long term success then he's out of his mind.
I don't fully blame him as we are really struck with injuries, so that has to be taken under consideration. However, I don't like the brand of football we played under ETH earlier this season so really not sure where this team is heading.
Both situations brought us goals.
The rest of the game we lumped the ball forward or passed in around between defenders.
If ETH thinks this is sustainable and will bring us long term success then he's out of his mind.
I don't fully blame him as we are really struck with injuries, so that has to be taken under consideration. However, I don't like the brand of football we played under ETH earlier this season so really not sure where this team is heading.
We have scored those types of goals plenty under Ole and Jose, especially against the top teams. We played Jose football with a mix of some Van Gaal philosophy.
Looks to be heading back to Ole's way of playing against the big teams. Not sure that's what EtH was hired for tbf. However since we really don't have any actual football director , I don't think playing style was ever mentioned during his job interview.
We look like a Tony Pulis team
Don't like ten Hag, we need a new manager to complain about
Don't like ten Hag, we need a new manager to complain about
We lack players in the middle who can receive the ball under pressure, retain and keep momentum. Maddison is a great example of a player available this summer, a younger Eriksen and would have made a huge difference on Sunday. Casimero was never that player and is even less capable of it now. Bruno is not that player as he loses the ball too often and then throws himself to the ground, it was embarrassing how often he did that yesterday. Whatever we think of Mount he doesnt change this gaping void. Maybe its Amrabat but lets see.
Not the first team to do this Vs us.
They didn't press much.
Said it near the start of thread, but I do think it's fair to question when we'll actually see more of what he talks about on the pitch. We do have plenty of injuries, but a style of play shouldn't only be achieved by the first 11 names on the team sheet, but the entire squad.
Exactly what I have felt so far this season. We seem to have nailed the first part of becoming the best transition side in the woeld.....keeper to defenders.
The premiership as a whole is a much slower tempo currently with the obsession of everybody copying Guardiola, but our failure to penetrate, our current football is slower and less imaginative than it wass under Van Gaal, its currently a painful watch
As good as Onana has been with the ball at his feet, it has actually taken away any intensity and tempo from our football when the defenders dont have the ability or confidence to play the ball forward, there seemed to be an over reliance several times yesterday on a safety first back to Onana pass.
On MOTD2 Jermaine Jenas did a good piece showing this witht the much maligned Antony. I see he got slated a lot again yesterday but despite the weak flicks or final ball, think he was one of our brightest players always makig nhimself available and gettig involved....but as Jena highlghted, there were several occasions he hugged the wing in acres of space and Bissaka and especially Lindelof failed to find him and his frustration was rightfully evident.
Of course we can poit to the fact three of our first choice back four were missing for a lot of the second half, our possible first choice midfield havent played yet and we only had 20mins or so of our first choice attack. We have been riddled with injuries so far this season, but agai that highlights for me why this has been a far from ideal window where we have made errors not addressing squad problems:
RB: Dalot did well yesterday at left back but is he an attacking right back, think there are far better out there. I personally like Bissaka but he does have his flaws and I really feel we should have been looking at a more attacking rb option to compete with him for certain games, we have seen both Gusto and Livaramento at new clubs for reasonable fees this summer, two great alternatives to Bissakas one on on excellence
CB: We missed Varane for several periods last season and Martinez. Shaw did well at cb but Malacia isnt rally ready to be the starting left back, so that should be an emergency situation.......but time and time again we saw both Maguire and Lindelof are not 3rd choice cb's to play 20odd games a season. NOt just defensively, we saw with Magurie on more reluctance to play the ball at the back especially from free kicks and again I saw as Jenas showed plenty of evidence that goes against a theme I see on here of Lindelof being good on the ball....he really isnt. And we sign Evans? Not siging a quality cb for the squad this summer I think will prove a big mistake and be prevelant in us finishig outside the top four
CM: Eriksen looked shot last season, he has been a bit better but again defensively in that role he is a liability and not up to the role, what do we do....spend £60m on for me a similar player and also add a player similar to Casemeiro who suits his role in Araambat, er havent really added anything different to our midfield, only improved the squad options. We really needed a box to box ball carrier, defensively sound, physical with good passing. I think both Mainoo and Hannibal could actually be the answer, but both are very inexperienced and Hannibal I am not sur even gets opportunities....but every other club in the top four last season as well as Liverpool, Chelsea and othes....for me have made signings that would have been ideal for us......and a lot of them cost the same or far less than Mount.
CF: Before Grenwood left I think we should have signed two strikers, with him leaving it was really important.
I am not all doom and gloom, I think our first eleven with the right selections is actually on paper better than it has been for some time and I also think there are good squad options in several positions,but over a premiership season no cb and second cf signing could well cost us 20+ points which doesnt cost us competing for the title, it costs us qualifying for the CL
Now De Gea has gone, teams don't press our GK & CBs anymore, instead they press FB and midfield cuz these players are useless when it comes to ball progression.
It's why United has more ball possession (on our half) now but pretty much clueless with it. That's not "dominate", opponents know they can win ball back when it matters.
United have been in transition the past 10 years, so they should have everyone beat on experience.
Possession is all about passing it around the back though. You don’t dominate possession around the final third or you end up toothless in attack.
It was only last season we were told how we crumbled away from home to the high press. The is progress and it’s just from changing the keeper alone