Which was better?
ETH's first Ajax v second Ajax
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
Preferred the first
2nd is better.
Who to trust?
Did anyone watch more than 3 games total of both teams?
Why do people on this forum ask such silly questions? If you don't want to be part of the intended conversation, don't
Good to think that he had experience to rebuild the square and still got the result.
The first was far better. None of the players in the 2nd team would make the starting line up of the first. That also goes for the 2nd teams Tadic compared to the 1st teams Tadic where he somehow turned into prime Messi (that ridiculous pirouette and assist against Madrid or the fantastic goal come to mind). Pasveer was the keeper mostly last year who did decent, but Onana in that first team had one of the best seasons in Europe.
The only one on paper you could switch is maybe Alvarez for Schöne, but Schöne fitted perfectly into that team.
There's a reason the 2nd team folded at the first hurdle and the first annihilated Real Madrid and Juventus (and Spurs to a large degree, but in the end they were Dutch and fecked up).
I think this year's Ajax will also outperform that 2nd team. Bassey looks like a Unit and even though Tadic turned to shite, Bergwijn is a great addition and Kudus looks like he's finally coming into his own too.
The only one on paper you could switch is maybe Alvarez for Schöne, but Schöne fitted perfectly into that team.
There's a reason the 2nd team folded at the first hurdle and the first annihilated Real Madrid and Juventus (and Spurs to a large degree, but in the end they were Dutch and fecked up).
I think this year's Ajax will also outperform that 2nd team. Bassey looks like a Unit and even though Tadic turned to shite, Bergwijn is a great addition and Kudus looks like he's finally coming into his own too.
It was a genuine question. A lot of people on here were claiming to be expects in Ten Hag football before he was appointed, I was impressed we had so many stealth Eredivisie watchers in our midst.
We all saw them play in the CL, I watched the latter stage games with great interest and we all certainly knew they had arrived when they dispatched Madrid at their home.
I guess we'll see how many people genuinely do watch Ajax on a regular basis depending on how many replies this thread gets, at least a third of the Caf was 'well informed' when we were looking for a new manager.
It makes me sad that you think Antony and Martinez couldn’t get in over Blind and Ziyech
Again not what the thread is about, if you want to start that conversation why not start your own thread instead of polluting this one and derailing it
Martínez displaced Blind from CB. Ziyech was very good in the Ajax system but has been a squad player at Chelsea.
De Jong and De Ligt are the only two from those squads to be near world class although a few might develop in the coming years
Okay, team A was better. Contribution completed, thread back on track.
Martinez is better than Blind has ever been as a CB, but Blind and De Ligt where a perfect pair, a bit like Stam and Frank de Boer.
Ziyech at Ajax was far better than Antony at Ajax in my opinion. The season where they drew against Chelsea Ziyech made Quincy Promes look like a fecking world beater. Antony may well have a higher ceiling though. Though I am curious to see what our Ajacieden like @AjaxCunian @BrilliantOrange @Terranova think.
So guys, Ajax Ziyech or Ajax Antony. You can only pick one.
Ziyech was unreal that season to be honest, I'd personally take Martinez over Blind though
I think if you moved Blind out left and brought in Martinez, that would probably be the best combination of the two teams. Harsh on Antony, and he probably could replace Neres with Ziyech shunted left, but Neres and Ziyech were sensational that year and it just seemed to click. Having said that, first team beats second 9.5/10 times.
The first, only the tasks were performed better with the 2nd team.
Ajax now has a team that can even win the champions league.
It remains a pity that an Antony has left, that is the problem at the moment with an Ajax.
We are really going to miss him 1 on 1 Antony is one of the best, he breaks open a duel when the pot is closed.
Our weapon is called Bassey, no striker in the world is going to beat him
Never seen such a good defender at an Ajax.
He is as strong as a de Ligt and as fast as Oshimen.
I'm curious next week against a Liverpool, they were really bad against Napoli.
Ajax now has a team that can even win the champions league.
It remains a pity that an Antony has left, that is the problem at the moment with an Ajax.
We are really going to miss him 1 on 1 Antony is one of the best, he breaks open a duel when the pot is closed.
Our weapon is called Bassey, no striker in the world is going to beat him
Never seen such a good defender at an Ajax.
He is as strong as a de Ligt and as fast as Oshimen.
I'm curious next week against a Liverpool, they were really bad against Napoli.
His first team has Kluivert and Huntelaar starting. Then you have the one with Promes, Veltman and Dest, then you have Antony, Gravenberch, Klaassen, Haller taking over and then the bottom starting XI that is in the OP.
The better ones were with De Jong and De ligt.
The better ones were with De Jong and De ligt.
I should specify its his optimal first team or rather his first successful team. That squad was built from 2017-19 and then got picked apart. The second is his best team from 19-22
I guess it could thought of as ETH Ajax 2019 v ETH Ajax 2022
ETH 2017 would have been largely inherited like his current United team. Hopefully ETH United 2024 is another great squad
The second one isn't the best team of 19-22, it's just last seasons team, 21-22. In my opinion the 20-21 was better.
Obviously I can't speak for all Ajax fans, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority will be saying Ziyech. United fans will now say Antony but they didn't watch more than 10 Ajax games.
I am also pretty confident the vast majority of Ajax fans rate the 18-19 team much higher and definitely will in the future. Onana, De Ligt, Frenkie, Ziyech, prime Blind and prime Tadic make the 2018-19 team superior.
Even the 19-20 team that was eliminated in the group stage because it was robbed twice against Chelsea, was better than last years team.
Ah forgot to tag you, sorry
Yeah, I agree with that last bit. Ziyech was sensational that CL campaign (probably why Chelsea bought him). Those "indraaidende voorzetten" from the right were so fecking lethal with Promes walking them into the goal. I hope Chelsea's new manager will utilize Ziyech the right way, because I'm still convinced he can destroy the premier league in the right set up and with enough confidence from his trainer, because he does need to get a little love to perform optimally.
Agreed I can't really explain it but I do think that 19-21 was better than last season's team. I could be wrong but I have the feeling that there was a nicer balance between possession and direct football, the team could go from one to the other with relative ease.
No worries.Ah forgot to tag you, sorry
Yeah, I agree with that last bit. Ziyech was sensational that CL campaign (probably why Chelsea bought him). Those "indraaidende voorzetten" from the right were so fecking lethal with Promes walking them into the goal. I hope Chelsea's new manager will utilize Ziyech the right way, because I'm still convinced he can destroy the premier league in the right set up and with enough confidence from his trainer, because he does need to get a little love to perform optimally.
I hope so too (re: Ziyech), although I think it will be difficult for two reasons. In the end of the day Ziyech has now been a bench player for about two seasons. I am wondering if a player nearing his 30s, that's been on the bench most of the time in his prime years is even able to recover from that. Moreover as we know he's the player that needs confidence and needs to be involved in the game a lot. At Ajax basicly every attack ran through him (that's also why he was more influential at Ajax than Antony was) and he needs that kind of involvement to be that influential.
Even with a new manager I don't see how that would be the case at Chelsea. He hasn't build the reputation in the team that his teammates are now going to trust him to be the focal point of every attack.
However I completely agree with you that he is good enoguh to be that and to be a PL star. Honestly if you take Odegaard out of Arsenal and put Ziyech in that spot, Arsenal won't be worse and Ziyech would kill it.
The 2019 team could beat you in more ways and was more mentally resilient, had dazzling chemistry to go with fine-tuned structures once it reached boiling point, posed a superior and multifarious offensive threat with the brilliant combination of Tadić (especially when he started featuring regularly as a deep-lying forward instead of Dolberg) and Ziyech — who produced 59 goals and 47 assists on their own, had a better orchestrator in the central-ish parts of the pitch with Frenkie de Jong (one of the absolute best midfielders in club football that year), and was quite defensively sound too (particularly the central core of de Ligt and Blind). From the 2022 team, I think only Martínez (at a stretch, mind you...I'm quite biased) and Mazraoui can make a case — with Blind moving to left-back (regrettably?) and Mazraoui supplanting his younger self (or the likes of Veltman). Other than those two (and honorable mention for Timber), it's Ajax 2019 all the way with regard to a combined Starting XI — it was just better, more adventurous in spirit and more whimsical than the relatively conservative and qualitatively lopsided team from last year. Not a surprise that it did so well against some of the foremost clubs in European football, and positioned itself as one of the most noteworthy, punching above its perceived weight class, “hipster teams” in the Champions League since peak Dortmund from the earlier parts of the decade.
the only position in which the second was better than the first was right back, which is the same player only a couple years older.
Either way, it's impressive how well they seemed to replace almost the whole first eleven and this is even a discussion
well i didn't like Ziyech, so that's easy
But i can't deny he was brilliant at Ajax, at times.Really?? Quite rare to come across an Ajacied who doesn't like Ziyechwell i didn't like Ziyech, so that's easy
On the pitch maybe, off the pitch quite a few people didn't like him. Including me.Really?? Quite rare to come across an Ajacied who doesn't like Ziyech
Oh sure, I think he's a bit too proud and entitled. Honour usually plays a bigger role in his culture than in ours (And I know he's Dutch and mean no disrespect) which is sometimes a bit hard to fathom for the self deprecating Dutch.
First one had better players, second one had better coaching and would probably beat the first one.
1st team miles better.
The first team was outrageously much better..
The first team that eliminated Juve and Real in the final stages of the Champions League?