FC Bayern 16/17 discussion

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Blackwidow

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Uhm...there's a reason we ae called "La bestia negra" by them. 12-2-8 in favour of us, we knocked them out in 2007 and 2012.
That "bestia negra" is a thing of around the turn of centuries when Real Madrid fielded some Galacticos and Bayern was inferior to them but beat them...

In 99/2000 we played Real three times - lost once - but somehow it was them that threw us out of the CL. The next season it was one win/one loss - but because of away goals Bayern was through.

That year after it was again Real.

That 8 matches in three years in which Real had the superior team on paper with a lot of superstars but Bayern won 6 of 8...
 

Balu

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In 99/2000 we played Real three times - lost once - but somehow it was them that threw us out of the CL. The next season it was one win/one loss - but because of away goals Bayern was through.
Hell, no. In 2001 we won home and away, both in the quarterfinal against United and in the semifinal against Real.
 

giorno

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Yeah. 2-1 and 1-0. Figo's first season. Still can't understand how we lost those games...
 

Blackwidow

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Yeah. 2-1 and 1-0. Figo's first season. Still can't understand how we lost those games...
The galacticos shone too much so they blinded themselves... :cool:

I remember how much I loved and enjoyed this matches. I still have videotapes somewhere of all of the matches (I just do not have a functioning VCR anymore). It was different to today as it really was like the superstars came to town - Bayern to them was the underdog. I do not know if I just believed in that narrative the German media spread - but it was just ordinary or local stars to that band of superstars. An Elber never got really chances in the Brazil nationalteam, Effe and others were just national heroes but weren't bigly mentioned in European or World football. Liza was World Champion - but he was just a sidekick to Zidane. The only one that might have be seen as "star" was Oliver Kahn - but I think that was even later.
 

MullerUtd

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Uhm...there's a reason we ae called "La bestia negra" by them. 12-2-8 in favour of us, we knocked them out in 2007 and 2012.
My bad if this is true. Because in recent times, everytime I saw Bayern Munich up against Real Madrid, they get knocked out. The Roberto Carlos freekick against Oliver Kahn was one that stood out, and the semi-final mauling 3 years ago.
 

fcbforever

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My bad if this is true. Because in recent times, everytime I saw Bayern Munich up against Real Madrid, they get knocked out. The Roberto Carlos freekick against Oliver Kahn was one that stood out, and the semi-final mauling 3 years ago.
"In recent times" is literally one tie in the last 10 years, we've won the rest.
 

Cristiano Lell

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"In recent times" is literally one tie in the last 10 years, we've won the rest.
The rest, in the last 10 years, being literally one tie as well lol. Unless you count 06/07, that's another. Before that, we lost two meetings.

So we can either continue to stroke our cocks while whispering "la bestia negra", or we can shut the feck up about our selection of history and concentrate on beating these clowns.
 

strongwalker

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or we can shut the feck up about our selection of history and concentrate on beating these clowns.
I'm busy focussing on tomorrow night, because i don't wanna be the one to blame for a loss because my performance in Block 232 row 9 was weak :D

on a side note, Lewa abandoned the final training today after 15min.
 

fcbforever

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I'm busy focussing on tomorrow night, because i don't wanna be the one to blame for a loss because my performance in Block 232 row 9 was weak :D

on a side note, Lewa abandoned the final training today after 15min.
Was planned, nothing new. He's fit, it was just a security measure.
He can wreck that academy guy tomorrow without any problems.
So glad Pepe is out, this way I don't have to look at him.
 

charlenefan

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Quite the rebuilding job they have on in the summer what with Lahm and Alonso retiring and Robben and Ribery injury prone and not getting any younger, guess they'll just go and sign Weigl, Pulisic, Dembele and someone else from Dortmund to address that though
 

totaalvoetbal

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If they go out this will be the first time since 2011 (5 years) that they have been out before the semis. This time they have no Guardiola to blame.
 

SirMattBugsby

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If they go out this will be the first time since 2011 (5 years) that they have been out before the semis. This time they have no Guardiola to blame.
Most reasonable Reds didn't blame Pep against Atlético. Dropping Müller for the first leg was debatable but understandable.

The reasons this time around are different and perhaps more insightful. The game management of Real was far, far better than that of Bayern. Bayern just didn't know what to do with one man down. To see how ill-equipped they were to handle the situation shows the drawbacks of monopoly in the league. They just aren't battle-hardened enough.

The board and Ancelotti are to blame for not having back-up for Lewandowski. I remember Ancelotti experimenting in all other positions except this one. Why the board didn't invest in a young forward is baffling.

Bayern had a great chance to do it this time, with Alonso and Lahm motivated for a final hurrah. It's not over yet, but very difficult now..
 

Cristiano Lell

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Most reasonable Reds didn't blame Pep against Atlético. Dropping Müller for the first leg was debatable but understandable.

The reasons this time around are different and perhaps more insightful. The game management of Real was far, far better than that of Bayern. Bayern just didn't know what to do with one man down. To see how ill-equipped they were to handle the situation shows the drawbacks of monopoly in the league. They just aren't battle-hardened enough.

The board and Ancelotti are to blame for not having back-up for Lewandowski. I remember Ancelotti experimenting in all other positions except this one. Why the board didn't invest in a young forward is baffling.

Bayern had a great chance to do it this time, with Alonso and Lahm motivated for a final hurrah. It's not over yet, but very difficult now..
Very good points and I agree 100%.

Let me expand a little.

The game management observation is crucial.
We did not behave well tactically, but not just after the red card, but already after the equalizer. Martinez's two yellows were already a consequence of our bad game management - the first he got after making a completely unneccessary dribbling foray in the middle and losing the ball, the second he got because we got outcountered once again while running ahead in search for an equalizer.

The backup striker point, I've been vocal about this here numerous times, starting with the first post.
People pointed out that Lewa is never injured and Müller can play striker.
Well.
Lewa was injured, and I think we can now once and for all bury the argument that Müller can play as CF if must.
He can't.
He neither has the physique nor the technical skills to play the position at a top level, to control and hold up balls in tight spaces. He was absolutely terrible yesterday, having a guy perform like that in such an important position in such an important game is frankly unacceptable at that level.

About the battle-hardened point, another crucial observation. It's surely no coincidence our best peak level coincided with a high point in terms of Bundeliga competition - peak Kloppmund.
This season, Bundesliga has been disappointingly poor, and especially the supposed top teams.
BVB was no match at all last weekend, all of Leverkusen, Gladbach, Schalke, Wolfsburg are nowhere near a level where they could meaningfully challenge us or compete with us.
That means, we play too few games at top level during the season. I think it is a huge problem.

Now the smaller clubs have performed well in Bundesliga, and they are never that easy to beat, they make it tough for us within their means and don't 'roll over' or some such BS; but the individual quality is just not comparable to, say the quality the top La Liga teams have to face week in week out.
Look at our defense - we afforded space and time to Ronaldo that we get away with when it's Burgstaller. We wouldn't get away with it if it was Griezmann or Jovetic.
 
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schwalbe

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The thing with the Lewandowski backup is that who would be happy with playing second fiddle to lewandowski (which means basically playing never) but would still be better than Müller as a striker. There's not many i can think of.
 

Keeps It tidy

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The thing with the Lewandowski backup is that who would be happy with playing second fiddle to lewandowski (which means basically playing never) but would still be better than Müller as a striker. There's not many i can think of.
And Muller should be the ideal backup since he can also fill in at three other positions. And going into the season no one knew his form would drop this dramatically.
 

Cristiano Lell

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And Muller should be the ideal backup since he can also fill in at three other positions. And going into the season no one knew his form would drop this dramatically.
Sorry but that's simply not true. His form had already dropped in spring 2016, and the Euros were a giant showcase of just how terrible an out-of-form Müller playing in the CF position can turn out to be.
 

SirMattBugsby

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The thing with the Lewandowski backup is that who would be happy with playing second fiddle to lewandowski (which means basically playing never) but would still be better than Müller as a striker. There's not many i can think of.
And Muller should be the ideal backup since he can also fill in at three other positions. And going into the season no one knew his form would drop this dramatically.
Sorry but that's simply not true. His form had already dropped in spring 2016, and the Euros were a giant showcase of just how terrible an out-of-form Müller playing in the CF position can turn out to be.
Exactly. Moreover, the role of Lewy in Bayern's system is very different from Müller's qualities. Lewy fends off defenders, holds the ball up and brings other attackers into play. Müller is, ideally, one of those attackers. He is a shadow striker, never the main man.

It's high time Bayern consider a young centre-forward who can also play on the wings. This way, playing time won't be an issue. Martial is one such player, although I obviously don't want him leaving United.
 

schwalbe

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A Mandzukic for example.
I thought of him when i was writing my post because he would be ideal but he would never ever do that. See the first Pep year and then we didn't even have Lewandowski.
 

Cristiano Lell

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It's high time Bayern consider a young centre-forward who can also play on the wings. This way, playing time won't be an issue. Martial is one such player, although I obviously don't want him leaving United.
It's pretty clear who is the ideal player ticking those boxes, another young Frenchman named M...
Not that we can get him, I guess.
 

Adisa

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They are fully capable of beating Real in Madrid. Need everything to go right for them next week.
 

schwalbe

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They are fully capable of beating Real in Madrid. Need everything to go right for them next week.
I think to even have a small chance we need to play Müller + Lewandowski. Otherwise it's going to be the same unimaginative offensive play as yesterday i think. There needs to be another threat in the box.
 

SirMattBugsby

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I think to even have a small chance we need to play Müller + Lewandowski. Otherwise it's going to be the same unimaginative offensive play as yesterday i think. There needs to be another threat in the box.
I'm pretty sure that's going to happen. Müller starts with Alonso on the bench. Three goals should be the target.

Please guys, win this. You have a better team, they just need to use their heads on the pitch.
 

Xivon

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Oh, look, Boateng is injured. Who needs CBs anyway.
 

VorZakone

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I think the only team capable of beating Real in the Bernabeu with more than 2 goals is Barca. Bayern is finished IMO.
 

giorno

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I think the only team capable of beating Real in the Bernabeu with more than 2 goals is Barca. Bayern is finished IMO.
They don't need to win by two goals and i have bad memories of penalty shoot-outs against them at the bernabeu

Still, yeah, all we need to do is not lose, at home. Bayern will need to be perfect AND hope we're not
 

Piratesoup

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Boateng suffers a worrying amount of muscle injuries...
 

Blackwidow

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I think to even have a small chance we need to play Müller + Lewandowski. Otherwise it's going to be the same unimaginative offensive play as yesterday i think. There needs to be another threat in the box.
It is not only the box. Müller you cannot man cover - and as a defender you have always to decide whether to pay attention to him or actually the man you have to cover. We need his movement for the three others - especially Lewy and Arjen - and we need Thiago and Vidal central. Alonso had one tackle and no interception Wednesday. Thiago can distribute the ball as well as he does but we need him as ball winner etc. in the center and Müller's movement will make it a lot easier to play forward.

Arsenal matches apart we had one winger or striker goal since 2011/12 in the final stages whenever we played with 3 midfielders and even that was when the opponent needed goals because we were ahead (Müller against Lissabon). No matter what coach, who was winger or striker or midfielder... So this is not about Lewy or Müller but Lewy and Müller.

Boateng suffers a worrying amount of muscle injuries...
Lately it seems like he never really comes out of his injuries... Luckily Martinez seems to be out of his. Süle will get enough match time...
 

GhastlyHun

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Oh, look, Boateng is injured. Who needs CBs anyway.
Supposed fit for Real, though. Question marks with Hummels.

My ideal line-up for the second leg would look like this, with Martinez out and hopefully everybody else fit:

Neuer
Lahm - Boateng - Hummels - Alaba
Vidal - Thiago
Müller
Robben - Lewandowski - Ribery
Vidal the muscle in securing the midfield. Thiago a litttle more defensive than usual, switching between defensive and offensive positions to play alongside Müller in attack / Vidal in defense.
Still guess Carlo will go with Vidal - Alonso behind Thiago.
 

SirMattBugsby

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Vidal the muscle in securing the midfield. Thiago a litttle more defensive than usual, switching between defensive and offensive positions to play alongside Müller in attack / Vidal in defense.
Still guess Carlo will go with Vidal - Alonso behind Thiago
I don't think he will. Carlo plays Alonso for stability, this is no time for that. I'll be very surprised if Müller and Lewandowski don't start, injuries permitting.
 
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