'Feeder Clubs'

[Mr. MUJAC]

The FA are to have a debate on English football to look at lower league 'feeder clubs'

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/19/fa-english-football-feeder-clubs

This will be a very interesting step in the history of the game in this country.

There are two ways of doing it reallly:

1. Like they do in Spain and France where Barcelona B (for example) actually sit in the equivalent of the Championship and play league matches. The plus side for Barcelona is obvious and culturally/historically people are used to this in Spain.

In England I can't see the likes of Leeds etc happy that Manchester United or Chelsea suddenly have a B team in their league. It would have a massive impact on lower league clubs with less spaces open for promotion etc.

2. The other option would be for United to link with one club, say Birmingham City for example, and all our U/21's etc would go on loan there rather than a host of different clubs.

Lot's of downsides to this as well, including the fact that if I was a Birmingham City fan I wouldn't want my team to be made up of Manchester United second string players and thus lose my own clubs identity.

However, from a youth player's development perspective, playing regularly in the Championship would help immensely...including a potentially better pool of talent for the national team.

Feeder clubs have been tried over the years starting in the 1920's and 1930's.

Here is an article on Arsenal and Spurs 'Feeder Club' system pre-war from the excellent 'Soccer History' magazine:

http://www.soccer-history.co.uk/arsenaltottenhamnursery.pdf

United started their 'A' team (third team) in 1932 when they entered the Manchester League playing against Works teams. These were mainly young amateur players 17-19 years old who weren't ready for Reserve team football or not yet given professional contracts.

A little later we had an arrangement with 'Goslings', another successful Manchester League outfit and would use them as a nursery/feeder club. Players like Jack Crompton, Henry Cockburn, Joe Walton and others all had spells with 'Goslings' before getting into the United first team.

For those interested in youth football, this will certainly be a topic to follow.

 

[LR7]

I read about this earlier.

It'll be interesting to see how this progresses. Apparently if there were B teams they would have to work their way up from the very bottom. I think most PL clubs would vote for developing a link with a lower league club though, but I'm sure there would have to be limits and regulations to prevent those Clubs from completely morphing into a Manchester United reserves team for example.

People didn't like the Udinese/Watford thing (same owners), but in a way I suppose that was the opposite to this, as it was preventing young English players getting games, whereas this in theory, should increase that likelihood.

 

[backofthenet]

Very difficult situation this. If you formalise a relationship with a lower league club, what happens if that club gets promoted to the top flight? Suddenly, for two games a season, half the players in the squad are not going to be available to the team. You can't prevent the likes of Birmingham in your example from being promoted, so do you force a situation where the link has to be broken if the team is promoted to the top flight?

Do you also have to force all sides in the premier league to have a link up with a lower league team, or is it only on request? What really is in it for the lower league side, unless there's a whacking great sum of money involved per season? What control would the premier league side have over the manager and coaching setup of the lower league side? You can't have a situation where a side is selected based on the coaching philosophy of one manager being similar to the premier side, only for him to be sacked 3 games in and a totally different managment style be introduced.

Personally I think that the formal linkup is more likely than B side setup, simply because of the number of professional clubs in this country and the history of a lot of them have. You can imagine if, say, Sheffield Utd were eventually relegated out of the league because Chelsea B got promoted to League 2 proper that there would be an almighty noise made. There's a lot of barriers to sort out for either version however.

 

[MrMarcello]

It's similar to how minor league baseball and hockey work in the US. Pro clubs have affiliation agreements and basically "loan" the players to these clubs at various development levels (the farm system in baseball). The parent club purchases the contract of a player and call him up to "the show." He can then be optioned back to a minor league club, however, after x options the player can become a free agent/enter waivers and another club can sign/claim him. There are other player work stipulations as well. But there is no promotion/relegation.

I'm sure Eboue can expand on this as he seems to have lots of baseball knowledge. I'm not as familiar with hockey but they have a minor league system and a juniors league as well.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

The problem is that in Baseball (or whatever) the system has been in place for 100 years so everyone is used to it...there is no relegation/promotion as you say and most people support a major league team...the minors do not have a social history like most football clubs here...many of which have been in the top flight in the past and have substantial cultural significance.

To do that here with say a non-league team, two things would happen. The leagues would object to a PL team suddenly having a B side in their league and would request that the team start at the lowest possible level...like AFC Wimbledon and FC United have done. Well, playing at that level is hardly development for an U/21 player at a senior club. They would have to win the league for 5/6 seasons to reach the football league and then get promotion naturally.

Maybe it's a long term plan and that's what PL clubs need to think about...

 

[KM]

I don't think there's any chance that any lower league clubs will allow to it, particularly since they already are a bit upset about the EPPP.

It's better to have an informal agreements like Spurs have with Swindon and we had with Leicester last season.

 

[devilish]

I don't think there's any chance that any lower league clubs will allow to it, particularly since they already are a bit upset about the EPPP.

It's better to have an informal agreements like Spurs have with Swindon and we had with Leicester last season.

An alternative would be for big clubs to buy a substantial number of shares (lets say 49 per cent) from smaller clubs.

 

[KM]

An alternative would be for big clubs to buy a substantial number of shares (lets say 49 per cent) from smaller clubs.

I'm not sure if one owner is allowed to have two teams in one league system. What happens if the two teams meet in FA CUP or something?
Nah, too much conflict of interest.

 

[steeeb]

Difficult one indeed.

The fact we have such a good league hierarchy with a lot of history makes it difficult. I can't see it happening to be honest . Not without big restriction on number of players loaned to a single team or whatever.