You think we’ll be able to put a title challenge and how would that come to fruition?
For the first time since 2013,there is no light at the end of the tunnel....
- Thread starter Nikelesh Reddy
- Start date
Honestly,I think Ole would have probably done reasonably well for a year,but he would have found it very difficult to retain success,but that’s just my view.My point was that the challenge before Ole is much greater than Pep or Zidane,and there’s nothing in his track record that suggests he’s good enough for this job.Listen,if you feel confident about going into next season with Ole in charge,then that’s great.Thats your point of view....Unfortunately I don’t feel confident at all.Thats what this forums all about,different supporters expressing different points of view....
Yeah....He’s a club legend so he’s obviously ready to manage this club.SAF and Sir Matt were also club legends when they took over the club...Oh wait....
We hit the bottom. But need people with vision and plans to start and take us up, unfortunately we don't have.
I think we will finish third and play much better football after signing a class right winger, a right back and some central midfielders.
That is the worst logic I have ever seen in my life.
... which is why we haven't actually hit rock bottom, yet.
Somehow I felt current situation is what we really need right now.
If we reach 4th, Ed will get stronger back up from the owner and we'll be back in circle.
Right now, the only way is up. Can Ed risk his commercial partnership? Absolutely No! A good economist understand what kind of sentiment that move the market.
2nd position with that kind of football is the false hope. Ole's interim achievement also.
No light at the end of tunnel? No! This time no one can hide. Easier to solve the problem under the bright light than in the dark.
How fast will the owner and their management will solve this? No one knows, they cannot simply mention who will leave or come in public, agents will play their cards and up the price using another club interest.
For the first time we heard about long term plan, transfer strategy which focused on youngsters not big name. So I'm not gonna be upset if we failed to buy players mentioned in media. I prefer Ajax style, create group of players that committed and believe in the club project.
If we reach 4th, Ed will get stronger back up from the owner and we'll be back in circle.
Right now, the only way is up. Can Ed risk his commercial partnership? Absolutely No! A good economist understand what kind of sentiment that move the market.
2nd position with that kind of football is the false hope. Ole's interim achievement also.
No light at the end of tunnel? No! This time no one can hide. Easier to solve the problem under the bright light than in the dark.
How fast will the owner and their management will solve this? No one knows, they cannot simply mention who will leave or come in public, agents will play their cards and up the price using another club interest.
For the first time we heard about long term plan, transfer strategy which focused on youngsters not big name. So I'm not gonna be upset if we failed to buy players mentioned in media. I prefer Ajax style, create group of players that committed and believe in the club project.
I do actually see some hope for next season. Playing there Europa league is what gave Harry Kane his chance for Spurs. He was not a prospect anybody thought would become what he has.
If missing the Champions League is good for anything it might mean a massive lowering of expectations for a season allowing us to blood some young players and move on some of the deadwood and mercenaries we have playing for us.
Even if we finished 7th-10th next season but we were playing a team with an average age of 23 and with 3-4 academy players involved. Playing high press, working their socks off and enjoying football then a lot of us could get behind that I think.
Sometimes taking a step back is needed before you can go forward again.
If missing the Champions League is good for anything it might mean a massive lowering of expectations for a season allowing us to blood some young players and move on some of the deadwood and mercenaries we have playing for us.
Even if we finished 7th-10th next season but we were playing a team with an average age of 23 and with 3-4 academy players involved. Playing high press, working their socks off and enjoying football then a lot of us could get behind that I think.
Sometimes taking a step back is needed before you can go forward again.
Can you clarify that? who is 'people'?
The fact that we finished so far behind City could be interpret as a warning, but wouldnt you take a second place finish rather then a 6th place? Also, there are some variables which have to be mentioned in order to contextualize that second season. Yes, United finished 19 points behind a City team that managed to end up with100 points, smashing a 20+ year old record from 1995(!). In any season 81 points would be a title challenging campaign. The 81 points finish was 6-8 points off the last title under Sir Alex i believe. That second season under Mourinho United also lost 7 and drew 6, which is two more then the last title winning season in 2012. Yes, its not an entirely accurate example, but the second season under Mourinho was a 'good' season in 'relative' terms. Furthermore, during that second season under Mourinho the team conceded 28 goals and in the third season (after the pre season debacle and Mourinho's insistence on defenders), United conceded 52 goals against, (nearly double as much). In terms of scoring goals, yes, the issues were consistenly appearing, the lack of goals. With a diastrous season as this one, the team actually managed to score only 3 goals less then the previous season which was good enough for a second place finish. So, yes, during that second season one could deduce that there were consistent problems in defense and attack, but nobody would even mention them (in my opinion) if 81 points was sufficient enough to clinch the title that season. Besides, it wasnt a warning to United only, it was an alert for every other team, and this season it became clear that the 'warning' was ignored and that one of the problems which contributed to this attrocious season was the fact that Mourinho was denied a defender, whom the club deemed 'unnecessary'. Jones and his new contract can appreciate that decision for sure! At the end of the day, this is not about the problems in the dressing room only, this is about United as a whole, from top to bottom, and the only 'positive' coming out of this season, is the fact that nobody can hide anymore. The players are under scrutiny and the board as well.
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This isn't rock bottom.
That's coming next summer.
This summer we lose Pogba&DDG while also shifting some actual deadwood.
Ole gets a pathetic transfer budget. He was hired to be a low maintenance manager and will get an appropriately low budget.
We promote some youngsters for a feelgood factor.....none are ready,however.
Ole is fired by Christmas with Utd around 13th in the league. Carrick and Mc Kenna act as caretakers.
We finish the season around 10th and Woodward spends all summer throwing out words like "DOF", "restructure" and "warchest".
We hire Ancelotti for 2020/21
That's coming next summer.
This summer we lose Pogba&DDG while also shifting some actual deadwood.
Ole gets a pathetic transfer budget. He was hired to be a low maintenance manager and will get an appropriately low budget.
We promote some youngsters for a feelgood factor.....none are ready,however.
Ole is fired by Christmas with Utd around 13th in the league. Carrick and Mc Kenna act as caretakers.
We finish the season around 10th and Woodward spends all summer throwing out words like "DOF", "restructure" and "warchest".
We hire Ancelotti for 2020/21
Your “logic” that since he’s a club legend(as a player),he’s therefore good enough to manage us is too laughable to even be called “logic” to be fair....
Lowering expectations?How much lower do we have to go?Expectations have been significantly lower since 2013.....Nobody expected Moyes to win the title in his first season,everyone just expected decent football and a top 3 finish....Since then expectations have come crashing down to an all time low,and know we need to lower our expectations even further??
I never said that.
I’ll just support him and give him time. He’s done an alright job.
This is precisely why I don’t see any light at the end of the tunnel for the next few years...
The further we fall in results and financially, the more likely the owners are to sell the club. That should be your light.
There was plenty of light at the end of the tunnel back in 2013.
Most people just thought that Moyes was the problem and that we’ll be up there soon.
It could’ve been that way if better decisions were made and better structure was in place.
Most people just thought that Moyes was the problem and that we’ll be up there soon.
It could’ve been that way if better decisions were made and better structure was in place.
Fine,that’s your point of view.If you feel confident about having him in charge,then that’s great.I don’t,but that’s what This forums all about,different supporters expressing different points of view.My big problem is us constantly talking about him as being a club legend,so everybody should just forget everything about his lack of experience and just get blindly behind him.
I”m not buying into that.I respect him for what he did as a player,but that won’t change the way I see him as a manager.As a manager it’s quite simply undeniable that he’s not done much to deserve a shot at this job....We all felt a bit uneasy about David Moyes taking over the club in 2013,But Moyes was far better prepared for the job than Solksjaer.....
I can't believe people think Klopp or Pep or even SAF are born winner 
and trying so hard to use their current record to justify that we're so wrong appoint Ole permanently.
Why dont use the same logic to understand Ole's football philosophy. I found an article in December a deep analysis how Molde play under Ole. Suprise suprise.. attacking football with high defense line and attacking fullback. Sounds familiar? I shared the link on newbie post few months ago.
https://totalfootballanalysis.com/h...solskjaer-manchester-united-tactical-analysis
Next question is, why we didnt play like that anymore? Well, look at the injuries and how tired the players recently, oh the solution is fitness training set up then!
Do you know how long needed to improve VO2max?
https://www.active.com/running/articles/how-to-improve-vo2-max
And we're talking about at least 11 players here that used for slower football for years.
Or maybe the solution just ask Barca the hormone injection that they used to improve Messi physicalities if we need faster result rather than ask players to use CR training dicipline to be a much better players.
and trying so hard to use their current record to justify that we're so wrong appoint Ole permanently.Why dont use the same logic to understand Ole's football philosophy. I found an article in December a deep analysis how Molde play under Ole. Suprise suprise.. attacking football with high defense line and attacking fullback. Sounds familiar? I shared the link on newbie post few months ago.
https://totalfootballanalysis.com/h...solskjaer-manchester-united-tactical-analysis
Next question is, why we didnt play like that anymore? Well, look at the injuries and how tired the players recently, oh the solution is fitness training set up then!
Do you know how long needed to improve VO2max?
https://www.active.com/running/articles/how-to-improve-vo2-max
And we're talking about at least 11 players here that used for slower football for years.
Or maybe the solution just ask Barca the hormone injection that they used to improve Messi physicalities if we need faster result rather than ask players to use CR training dicipline to be a much better players.
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Yeah and it’s the short term attempts to get back to the top table that is killing us now.
We can take a long painful rebuild from the ground up with the principles of the club baked in.
I don’t think we should ever be striving for anything but winning the league and champions league. However, I think the best way there is to actually have a plan to get there. Lurching from one messiah figure to the next isn’t a plan. Rebuilding over the medium to long term with young hungry players is a plan but you need buy-in from the fans as well.
It can get a lot worse. Possibly losing DDG and Pogba whilst not being able to shift deadwood. We’ll not be able to get our top transfer targets (if we have any) because let’s face it, there’s probably 8 clubs in Europe top talent would rather go than current United...two being our biggest rivals.
Meanwhile the current top four will pull further away and with the revenue in the league, mid table sides will strengthen. Nothing on the pitch changes until we get Ed away from football decisions and get a qualified, competent DoF. Only them we’ll start to rebuild and that’ll take 3-5 years
Meanwhile the current top four will pull further away and with the revenue in the league, mid table sides will strengthen. Nothing on the pitch changes until we get Ed away from football decisions and get a qualified, competent DoF. Only them we’ll start to rebuild and that’ll take 3-5 years
And Smalling, Jones, and Young are STILL here, and having the chance to prove themselves to a new manager.
To be honest i'm still waiting to see how our summer pans out. I think fans wanting 10 players out and 7 or 8 in will be severely disappointed however.
Give Ole a chance. Did you feel this passionately when he took over and was winning game after game and setting records? Did you feel this strongly about Ole when United beat PSG in their own backyard? I think people need to slow down and take stock. Ole did not suddenly become a good manager after a series of undeniably excellent results and he certainly has not become a bad manager after a series of undeniably terrible ones. That said I do understand your frustrations, but if I were you, I would test Ole's competence as a manager against some basic success measures. For me the top measures are as follows:
1. Quality of signings - I expect Ole to be able to bring players in who will play for the shirt. I am tired of these glory hunters who are milking the club and laughing in the face of the fans whilst they do it. If, as Ole says, has the final say on signings, then let's see who he brings in and let's put his judgement of elite talent to the test. If Ole puts another Sanchez or Lukaku on the wage bill, then that will tell us everything we need to know about his decision-making acumen.
2. Resolution of the Pogba and De Gea questions - Ole has been all over the map on this. It is clear to me that he does not know either player as well as he thinks he does. Both are holding the club to ransom and angling for moves away or astronomical deals to stay that will eventually bankrupt the club. If Ole convinces either player to stay and they then deliver sub-par performances he will then be under massive pressure to sell them, with all the disruption that will cause to the squad. But does Ole have the courage to take matters into his own hands, before it ever gets to that stage and just show both the door? Again, let's see.
3. Volume of departures - I expect to see a procession of departures from United this summer. Young, Jones, Smalling, Sanchez, Rojo and Matic must be shown the door over the next two windows. There is no getting around the fact that they are not of the standard that United should expect and their very presence in the dressing room only serves to underline the point that United are a club that has abandoned it standards. This is an area where frankly Ole is already making me concerned. A new contract for Phil Jones? You have got to be kidding me. Was that his decision? Let's see what he does in the summer.
5. Quality of performances - To be honest I do not just want to see points being accrued, I want to see performances produced. I want to see United players committing themselves 100% on the pitch, covering every blade of glass and performing at the same levels as City and Liverpool. That is the least that any United fan should expect. Ole needs to get a tune out of that squad, not just for a third of the season, but for the entirety of it. I expect Ole to be absolutely ruthless, dropping players to the bench if they over-promise and under-perform.
6. Results - I do not expect United to win the league next season. Not by any chance. United are too far behind City and Liverpool. That said, I do expect United to narrow the points gap. Ole cannot finish 30 points behind the champions and claim hat he has made progress. I would expect that points difference to narrow by two thirds next season ie: United must be no more than ten points behind whoever the eventual champions are.
7. Champions League qualification - This has to be the bread and butter of the club. Champions League qualification is not just about the money, it is about the club's ability to attract the best players, it is about stature, standing and financial power. Ole absolutely must qualify for the champions league next season. The quality and calibre of player that Manchester United will be able to attract next summer demands it.
1. Quality of signings - I expect Ole to be able to bring players in who will play for the shirt. I am tired of these glory hunters who are milking the club and laughing in the face of the fans whilst they do it. If, as Ole says, has the final say on signings, then let's see who he brings in and let's put his judgement of elite talent to the test. If Ole puts another Sanchez or Lukaku on the wage bill, then that will tell us everything we need to know about his decision-making acumen.
2. Resolution of the Pogba and De Gea questions - Ole has been all over the map on this. It is clear to me that he does not know either player as well as he thinks he does. Both are holding the club to ransom and angling for moves away or astronomical deals to stay that will eventually bankrupt the club. If Ole convinces either player to stay and they then deliver sub-par performances he will then be under massive pressure to sell them, with all the disruption that will cause to the squad. But does Ole have the courage to take matters into his own hands, before it ever gets to that stage and just show both the door? Again, let's see.
3. Volume of departures - I expect to see a procession of departures from United this summer. Young, Jones, Smalling, Sanchez, Rojo and Matic must be shown the door over the next two windows. There is no getting around the fact that they are not of the standard that United should expect and their very presence in the dressing room only serves to underline the point that United are a club that has abandoned it standards. This is an area where frankly Ole is already making me concerned. A new contract for Phil Jones? You have got to be kidding me. Was that his decision? Let's see what he does in the summer.
4. Elevations to the squad and first team - Ole needs to start promoting from the academy. There are players coming through who deserve the chance to show what they can do. Aside from giving Ole the chance to 'blood' and evaluate the potential of the talent coming through, it will also put a rocket up some of the senior players, who all too often seem all too comfortable. Right now I would substitute a little bit of capability for a whople lot of hunger and academy players have hunger in abundance.
5. Quality of performances - To be honest I do not just want to see points being accrued, I want to see performances produced. I want to see United players committing themselves 100% on the pitch, covering every blade of glass and performing at the same levels as City and Liverpool. That is the least that any United fan should expect. Ole needs to get a tune out of that squad, not just for a third of the season, but for the entirety of it. I expect Ole to be absolutely ruthless, dropping players to the bench if they over-promise and under-perform.
6. Results - I do not expect United to win the league next season. Not by any chance. United are too far behind City and Liverpool. That said, I do expect United to narrow the points gap. Ole cannot finish 30 points behind the champions and claim hat he has made progress. I would expect that points difference to narrow by two thirds next season ie: United must be no more than ten points behind whoever the eventual champions are.
7. Champions League qualification - This has to be the bread and butter of the club. Champions League qualification is not just about the money, it is about the club's ability to attract the best players, it is about stature, standing and financial power. Ole absolutely must qualify for the champions league next season. The quality and calibre of player that Manchester United will be able to attract next summer demands it.
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I ll start next season with hope for competing for the 6th place trophy. No expectations at all. Just hope some of our new crop of Mason, Homes,Garner and Chong get some game time. Will be good to see them develop...Rest is all doom and Gloom
Weird. Who said everything was great?
there is light at the end of the tunnel, but I fear its an oncoming train
The biggest reason why I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, is that we have already spent so much money and not really improved the squad significantly. So what now? Do we spend a similar amount again?
Relative to who United are, what the club has achieved and it's standing in world football, things are pretty grim. That said a bit of perspective is needed here.
First of all, take a step back and look at world football. We've had a slight fall from grace but there are clubs of comparable size and history who have experienced worse. There are clubs who's very existence is at stake, some of them right on United's doorstep. Here we are, panicking over a "terrible" season. If this is our rock bottom, or even close to it then we are very fortunate.
Of course, I am not downplaying the severity of the position we are in. Without a doubt it is not good enough and none of us should be happy. I just wanted to widen people's views a little.
Personally I think it's been worse since 2013. It's just that over the past few years we've had something to look forward to. The FA Cup final or the Europa League final have awaited us irrespective of our position in the league. This time however we haven't. This ranks alongside the Moyes season in that respect.
I hope that behind the scenes, work is already underway to enable us to change the direction the club is currently going. I would love the Glazers to sell United but would hate us to be owned by the Saudi Royal family. Removing one negative for another serves no purpose in my opinion.
I think as fans, we need to disengage from United for a few months, spend the summer doing things that make you happy and come back to what will hopefully be a refreshed squad, with a plan of attack for the season.
First of all, take a step back and look at world football. We've had a slight fall from grace but there are clubs of comparable size and history who have experienced worse. There are clubs who's very existence is at stake, some of them right on United's doorstep. Here we are, panicking over a "terrible" season. If this is our rock bottom, or even close to it then we are very fortunate.
Of course, I am not downplaying the severity of the position we are in. Without a doubt it is not good enough and none of us should be happy. I just wanted to widen people's views a little.
Personally I think it's been worse since 2013. It's just that over the past few years we've had something to look forward to. The FA Cup final or the Europa League final have awaited us irrespective of our position in the league. This time however we haven't. This ranks alongside the Moyes season in that respect.
I hope that behind the scenes, work is already underway to enable us to change the direction the club is currently going. I would love the Glazers to sell United but would hate us to be owned by the Saudi Royal family. Removing one negative for another serves no purpose in my opinion.
I think as fans, we need to disengage from United for a few months, spend the summer doing things that make you happy and come back to what will hopefully be a refreshed squad, with a plan of attack for the season.
I am surprised so many people are dismissing Ole and are basically writing him off. Its quite disrespectful IMO. Yes he does not have a stellar management record, but its also fair to say he hasn’t been afforded many opportunities at the top level. He failed in the PL with a team that was heading for relegation with or without Ole. He has done as well as could be expected with Molde. He had a brilliant start to his United managerial career, and then we have witnessed issues in the team that were there even before he was appointed - leaky defence, inconsistent players, poor attitude.
To me, he is an unknown at the top level but he seems to say the right things, was always praised by Sir Alex for reading the game well, and no one can deny he embodies the united spirit.
Instead of all the negativity may be people should try and support a Man United legend. At worse, we will be languishing in 6th come the next year. On the positive side, Ole will clean up the dressing room, instil the United ethic, and set a platform for future success.
We are not the only major club to employ an ex-player with relatively less experience as a manager. Some are successes such as Pep, Zidane, Cruyff, Deschamps some are mediocre such as Gattuso, while others are downright failures such as Henry, Inzaghi, Seedorf. We wont know where Ole falls unless we trust him and give him time.
To me, he is an unknown at the top level but he seems to say the right things, was always praised by Sir Alex for reading the game well, and no one can deny he embodies the united spirit.
Instead of all the negativity may be people should try and support a Man United legend. At worse, we will be languishing in 6th come the next year. On the positive side, Ole will clean up the dressing room, instil the United ethic, and set a platform for future success.
We are not the only major club to employ an ex-player with relatively less experience as a manager. Some are successes such as Pep, Zidane, Cruyff, Deschamps some are mediocre such as Gattuso, while others are downright failures such as Henry, Inzaghi, Seedorf. We wont know where Ole falls unless we trust him and give him time.
The only positive from that would be if Solskjear is seen to be out of his depth and gone by Xmas even though Woodward being the moron he is would wait until it's mathematically impossible to get top 4 but if he did replace him the hope would be that we would still be in with a chance of winning the Europa league.
That is the only glimmer of hope I have for next season.
I am not sure it is realistic to always expect managers brought in to deliver success quickly, themselves often on shortish contracts, not to expect to ask for ready made players. Mourinho wanted success now not in three years and asked for players who were experienced enough potentially to deliver it. The fans however didn’t like the thought of veterans and thought we could do it like Ferguson did. Maybe those days are gone and part of the problem is us fans. Maybe we need to modernise too.
Part of me thinks we need a season or two finishing bottom half of the table to force the Glazers and Woodward out.
Finishing 4th to 6th will just give them enough legroom to spin gullible fans a narrative to get the season tickets renewed YET AGAIN.
Finishing 4th to 6th will just give them enough legroom to spin gullible fans a narrative to get the season tickets renewed YET AGAIN.
This is probably the first summer I’ve felt uncertain as to where the club is heading. There’s barely any good news coming out regarding transfers, changes at club etc. It’s just articles about how poorly run we are, players leaving, mediocre players handed contracts, not making moves in the transfer market.
Unless we’re in the process of being sold, I don’t understand why there’s fecking nothing coming out of the club.
Unless we’re in the process of being sold, I don’t understand why there’s fecking nothing coming out of the club.
Stage 2 / 5 has been reached. Long way to go yet .
.That didn't happen last time we were in Europa League.
13-14 with Moyes taking over and sacking the backroom boys was worse than this. You just knew it would go tits up. This season with Mourinho the same.
With next season its an open book. No one can predict it as Ole hasnt managed a big team. He hasnt had a big team pre season, nor does anyone know how much money they have allotted him for transfers. We might still get this DOF or whatever title, which is new as well, and we might already be at rock bottom now, so the only way is up.
With next season its an open book. No one can predict it as Ole hasnt managed a big team. He hasnt had a big team pre season, nor does anyone know how much money they have allotted him for transfers. We might still get this DOF or whatever title, which is new as well, and we might already be at rock bottom now, so the only way is up.
Way too early to write Ole off. We played some great stuff until they hit the wall.
Lets see what he can do with a transfer window and a preseason before pretending to be able to predict the future.
Lets see what he can do with a transfer window and a preseason before pretending to be able to predict the future.
The state of this club just makes me want to cry.
At a time when mental coaches are running football, what we have is Ole. The all smiling guy whose tactics can't be deciphered. Who can't get off his seat and lay into underperforming players at a time we needed to deliver results befitting a Manchester United outfit. Ole is no match for Klopp, Guardiola, Pochettino, Sarri, Emery and Dare I say nuno Espirito. We managed a winning run off a managerial sack and thought we found the one. Seems the one was probably surprised he even managed such feat. He would be out thought and out fought next season. There are more horrible records to be added to the one under him from this season. I see complete darkness and hopelessness for us ahead. I wish this was just a video game and I could click the 'delete club' button.
Whats saturdays lottery numbers? FFS