Form vs class

[BusbyMalone]

There’s been a few players who are coming in for a lot of criticism lately, with Maguire, AWB, Fred, McTominay, Shaw (this season, anyway), and Rashford being the main culprits. Maybe Sancho and Donny as well? Although that may be harsh. I would throw Martial in here but it seems like he’s going. I may be missing one or two. Anyway, do you believe this to be a product of form, or is it more to do with the fact that these players are simply not good enough?

In my opinion, we have been severely under-coached for some years. I think a lot of people would agree with that, and as a result, we get these severe dips in form. Not to absolve the players of all blame here, but could a world-class coach make these lot play beyond their level and get the absolute best out of them?

Someone like Maguire stands out for me due to the fee paid and the fact that he’s captain. For me, he’s simply never going to be able to be as good as his current position would require.


Maybe you disagree. Are some of them a lost cause, are just merely out of form?

 

[lost7]

Maguire was excellent during the second half of last season (+ the euros). I truly believe he can be an excellent defender for us, but right now his confidence is completely shot.

Shaw and Rashford can also be top players in my opinion. As for Sancho, can't believe he's already being labelled as a flop. He's a young player and has already showed flashes of brilliance, but of course he'll need time to adapt to the Premier league.

Fred, McTominay and Wan Bissaka should only be squad players at best, though

 

[Abraxas]

There's a mix of both going on. The problem is, there is hardly anybody that doesn't come with an asterisk attached for the next manager. We seem to have a whole bunch who either lack the ability to match where this football club should be moving, or they have talent but the attitude is appalling. Some even have issues with both.

I think there are players a manager would want to work with and therefore you could say that form is an issue. Varane, Maguire and Shaw can do much better than they currently are. I think to a large extent Bruno is proven class on an individual basis, we need to work him within a team but I think a manager should fancy that challenge. You have Sancho who is undoubtedly far better than we're seeing, and Rashford who at one time was far better than what we're seeing. This isn't pie in the sky, all of these players have shown more previously.

But there's a fairly unappealing bunch of aging, or wantaway players too. Matic, Pogba, Martial, Cavani, Lingard. Is Ronaldo a positive to a manager? That's a big question.

There's a bunch with questionable ability. McTominay, AWB, Dalot, Fred, Bailly, Telles, VDB, Lindelof.

I make that about half a squad that I would find unpromising as a manager, and even the ones that I am making allowances for can be easily disputed. It shows the scale of this task. We have to get rid of as many as possible, buy well, maybe use youth to plug squad gaps in a bid to create a new team dynamic. As much as people won't want to accept another "transition" they're going to need a bit of time as well. That's why we have to get somebody with credibility.

 

[Ixion]

I think Maguire and Rashford are worth persisting with as squad players but are both in awful form and should be evaluated at the end of the season. Shaw I think in a good team playing nice football would be an asset but when things aren't going well I'm not sure his talent is enough, his good seasons to bad seasons ratio is not great and he's been called out by multiple managers so it begs questions about his attitude. AWB I don't think is good enough to be a starter for us.

Sancho it remains to be seen, I imagine he'll be a useful squad player for us but maybe never a star. McTominay is another I would keep for the squad/rotation but not as first choice.

I'm actually quite gutted to be losing Martial, and so many fans wanting to bin Rashford. At the start of the season I would not have said having Ronaldo and Cavani for a year was worth losing Martial and Rashford, I would have rather try to develop them.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Out of the ones I mentioned, Rashford for me is the one that is most salvageable. He's in wretched form at the moment, but I do still rate him quite highly. It's concerning how long he's been in bad form, but I think he will recover. Some of the others I'm not sure about. AWB and Maguire I just don't think are good enough for the level we need to be at. Same with Fred. Shaw is another one who's not in a great place, but is definitely a case of bad form over class.

 

[RUCK4444]

Maguire was excellent during the second half of last season (+ the euros). I truly believe he can be an excellent defender for us, but right now his confidence is completely shot.

Shaw and Rashford can also be top players in my opinion. As for Sancho, can't believe he's already being labelled as a flop. He's a young player and has already showed flashes of brilliance, but of course he'll need time to adapt to the Premier league.

Fred, McTominay and Wan Bissaka should only be squad players at best, though

Level headed post. I largely agree.

 

[Siezard]

Fred can be a good squad option given that he press and can create as well.

Same can be said for Wan Bissaka, hard worker and great tackler.

The squad is filled with talented individuals like CR7, Cavani, Sancho, Pogba, Bruno, VDB. Guess they will need time to gel.

 

[passing-wind]

Rashford and Shaw have enough to offer as permanent starters. Irrespective of Marcus dreadful performances as of late his output for a wide winger even under Ole's tenure has been respectable, I'd say somehow he benefited the most as an attacking player during Ole's reign.
.

Maguire I'm 50/50 it depends on who the manager is. If the next appointment is someone who's going to press with a high line I don't favour Harry's chances but if it's a possession orientated coach like ETH then I reckon he'll do well enough to stay long term.

Fred / Mctomminay should not be first team players no matter what the circumstances are. They are significantly below the required standard needed to excel. I have little worry for Sancho I think he will come good with time and confidence. Werner and Havertz both looked better in their second seasons compared to their debuts. I think it's permissible to give those coming from the Bundesliga at least a year due to the league indifferences.

What's worrying with Donny is he's not getting a look-in under RR and the only question fans can ask is why because there's clearly a reason. Especially when someone like Dalot can find opportunity if after summer 2022 he's still not in the frame I'd say he's career is done at United.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

For me the squad is a combination of players past their peak (eg. Ronaldo, Cavani, Matic), good players low on confidence (eg. Shaw, Rashford, Bruno, Sancho), players at a cross roads in their careers (eg. Pogba, VDB, Henderson) and a crop of first X1 & squad players simply not being technically good or intelligent enough (eg. AWB, McTominay, Telles, Fred, Martial). Mixed with a good dose of mismanagement and lack of high level modern coaching over many years makes for the perfect storm we find ourselves in.