Three years? He's already starting for Ecuador and looking decent against teams like Uruguay. Defintely quite young, but think you may be underestimating him. We'll have to wait and see though.
Fred - £47m well spent
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I'd agree with this.
He's a tough competitor.
Doesn't take any shit.
We look better with him in the team.
Mate midfielders need to score occasionally and pass the ball.
I'm not talking about Bruno level passing, just the regular kind. Both Fred/Scott lose the ball at a higher rate compared to other top CM/DMs.
I think we play our best when Fred/Scott play. But i'm pointing out the flaws in their game which is a big part of why they don't start every game.
I have made a post earlier in this thread showing Fred is as good at passing as any defensive midfielder in the Premier League, and he is the joint third most creative in comparison to the number of passes per game. e.g. Rodri makes the same number of key passes per game, but he also makes 30 more passes per game (by far, the highest of any DM in the league).
Defensive midfielders tend to score on average 2 goals per season, so score 1 goal and he is halfway there. Carrick, Makelele, Busquets all did about this throughout their careers. The only time you would get a high scoring defensive midfielder, in comparison, is if he is a freekick/penalty taker.
In the end, it is his defensive output that is the main contributing factor and he is one of the best in the league statistically. The only ones with a noticeable difference are Romeu and Kante (not surprising). Really, I would say we have the third-best DM in the league this season. Not only does he equal all, save Romeu and Kante in defence, but he also beats the others out with his passing.
He is not the absolute best, but he is very good.
I think it's pretty clear that we play much better when Fred's in the team. He's a massive upgrade on what went before and unless an obviously better player becomes available I'm happy to see him here for the foreseeable future.
Am I the only person who thinks Fred is bang average ? Give me Hojberg, Docurae, Eze, Mcginn or James ward prowse over Fred the fraud. I really don’t think he’s that much of an upgrade of Tom Cleverley.
So a bunch of average players you'd prefer over the apparently average fred? Is this just a wind up post?
Fred covers way more ground than any of those players, can't believe you bring up the likes of Hojberg
. Ward Prowse is just a dead ball specialist, that's it.Mods? You see this?
Shocking.
Isn't that the same as we paid for Bruno?
It’s a wind-up. Ignore.
47m is not cheap, so jury is still out on whether Fred justify this price tag. All we know as of now, is that he is performing, so better than a flop. Can he stay fit to play regularly, perform and contribute at this level consistently and cut out his stupid fouls. But then, he will never be better than McTom, who is free from a cost perspective.
With the same argument, Bailey has just moved up a notch from 1 to 2, out of 10, to avoid a flop label.
Surely a tinge of sarcasm there? No white text?!?
Once a player has joined us I don't see the sense in holding his price over his head. He's here, so judge him on his performances on the individual level and in comparison to his teammates. Fred is rightfully in our strongest line-up and is normally outperforming our other central midfielders, so that's a win for me. If you need to bring price into it then Fred is better than Matic who didn't cost much less yet I rarely see people complaining about that price.
Fred is a far better player than McTominay at this moment in time. McTominay is stronger, better in the air and obviously better at scoring goals. Fred is better at pretty much every other aspect on the field, significantly better at most of them. There's a chance McTominay continues to develop and reaches a higher level but I doubt it.
Hah....I was one of those 99% - and I never thought he would be a success. I mean I knew he was much better than what we saw - but I never expected us to get that out of him
Fred being thrown in with McTominay seems to be the new Smalling and Jones. For years people would talk about 'Smalling and Jones' together as if they were both at the same level, both getting injured and constantly making mistakes when they did play. Year after year passed with Smalling being not only better than Jones but normally better than any of our other central defenders, yet people still put them in the same category.
Now I'm seeing the same thing with Fred and McTominay. Fred is a far better passer. He plays significantly more passes, he plays more progressive and attacking passes (both in total and percentage), his plays more long passes, he creates more goal scoring opportunities, and yet he has a higher pass success rate. He's constantly starting our attacks with his ball-winning ability and then quickly sliding it forward to our attackers, and he also tends to be the main one playing it out of the back and moving the team around. He's also far better (the best of all our central midfielders) at constantly moving and getting into space to give our other players an option to pass to while McTominay in particular tends to stand behind opposition players so it's difficult to find him. Fred also dribbles the ball more with a higher success rate.
There was literally a game recently where Fred passed the ball almost exactly triple the amount of times McTominay did despite the fact they were both on the field the entire match. Yes that's an outlier and it's not normally that big of a difference, but it just highlights that it's ridiculous to tar Fred with the same brush. McTominay truly isn't good enough with the ball. Maybe he'll develop that side of his game, but right now he's poor. Fred isn't. He's obviously not brilliant, but he's 'good enough'. Play him next to somebody else who is at least 'good enough' (hopefully better) and we'll be in a much better position.
Defensively Fred is also ahead, pressing the opposition significantly more than McTominay does, makes more tackles and makes more interceptions.
I feel that some fans have already made up their minds on Fred from his 1st season and not willing to change.
Yes, he is erratic at times but I have seen constant improvement from Fred since last season, his passing is getting better, his understanding of the game and our players is getting better and even though on occasions his control is suspect, there have been alot of occasions where he plays a first time ball round the corner to beat the press and we counter.
Yes, he is erratic at times but I have seen constant improvement from Fred since last season, his passing is getting better, his understanding of the game and our players is getting better and even though on occasions his control is suspect, there have been alot of occasions where he plays a first time ball round the corner to beat the press and we counter.
Agreed. People genuinely still think Fred is an average player worth no more than 25 million, and who is only good enough to make the bench. I’ve even seen people say Hojbjerg is better than him. Nonsense.
Imo, he is so good now to the point where he has far surpassed Matic and Pogba as our best CM, and he is someone who we should not be looking to replace in the summer. Due to his energy, interceptions and rapidly improving technical ability (passing, control), he’d be the perfect DM to protect Pogba’s replacement (Grealish or Maddison hopefully) and Bruno in front of him. In that case, he wouldn’t be asked to go forward as much as he is now, which will also mask his one weakness, shooting.
But nowhere near as high as Bruno, presumably.
Ahhh clever. See what you did there...
His role does not need to score. He passes the ball as well as anyone.
If you watched other midfielders as closely, as a fan, you’d see misplaced passes galore. It’s not just him.
He’s played more matches this year than every midfielder aside from Bruno. He’s first choice. He’s really good. Slow to start at the club but this season, across 16 matches, he’s among the best performing in the league.
Anyone else think Darren Fletcher might be able to help Fred?
Yep, really pulled up trees before Bruno came in. Absolute b*llocks, the guy ran around a lot against PSG which has suddenly created this Ghendouzi at Arsenal level of nonsense; he [as have a number of others] benefited massively from Bruno coming in.
We were god knows where in the League & he was hardly ‘bossing it’ when the likes of Burnley ran him off the pitch at OT last season.
Quite obviously not a bad player but if he was lining up for Arsenal & they were waxing lyrical they’d be labelled deluded.
I’ve never understood this argument, so fans that don’t play games understand the game better?
Think some posters need to understand it’s a forum; you aren’t SAF & never will be, differing opinions make threads.
I think he's done well to force himself into our strongest 11 and I do thinks he has very good games now and then. I also think his passing and receiveing game is lacking and he over commits in his pressure. He can definitely improve.
I said Fred came good, not that Fred was bossing it. He's not bossing it now either but it's really short term memory to forget that Fred and McTominay both held it down while Pogba was out and before Bruno came. Go back and look at the early days of his performances thread for that season.
Not a fraud more of a con merchant I'd say!
Love Fred. Hope he has another good game tonight if he plays. In the market pre covid, I think 47m was decent for him, there’s a United tax of course.
I never understood why people put Fred and McT "in the same sentence" as if they were remotely as good. McTominay is an alright 6 midfielder in our team who would struggle to start for top half teams. Fred is a top player in his position. Much accurate passer, much quicker ball mover, much more mobile, certainly miles better positionally, wins the ball much more, covers way more space.
McTominay on the other hand is maybe just a stronger lad and has a better shot but how many more goals he scores a year than Fred? yeah you guessed it not many more. If he´s a goalscoring midfielder he should score many more. If he loses the ball so much as Bruno who is the worst in it he should at least be as creativfe as him and he´s not...
And a better ball carrier than Fred? Not exactly, it´s just clutching at straws when trying to praise something of a painfully average player. Fred carries the ball very well as well and is way better in tight spaces but maybe some people don´t notice or don´t want to notice.
I will also drop this little notice about his goal assists contribution again, he´s not about it because he´s a different player who makes his team tick, wins the ball higher up and by that he creates very good opportunities but some people are let´s call it shortsighted and only see the assists and goals not preassists orcrucial defensive contributions in midfield. Look at Kante´s or Wijnuldums, Fernandiho´s numbers over years, they are part of some amazing title winning teams and yes you guessed it they have very similar numbers.
It´s a team game and no one should care if a player score enough goals but if the team scores enough goals to win anything.. another example Firmino? does he scores enough goals for someone leading the line for the last two seasons best team in the country/world? Maybe not but who cares when he provides great platform for Mane and Salah.
We could tlak about so many other examples, just baffels me people can´t understand players are different with different roles, everyone contributes differently.
And sorry I didn´t react only to your post but to several points menationed in discussion before.
Cool your jets. Where do I say you can't state your opinions? Go ahead state them. I'll call them out when I think they're bogus.
Also, watching football and analysing football are two separate things. I don't have to SAF to see that some opinions are woefully inept. THAT is my opinion because it is a forum.
Obviously touched a nerve here. “I never understood this argument” = “cool your jets”; but sensitive there lad.Cool your jets. Where do I say you can't state your opinions? Go ahead state them. I'll call them out when I think they're bogus.
Also, watching football and analysing football are two separate things. I don't have to SAF to see that some opinions are woefully inept. THAT is my opinion because it is a forum.
Let’s talk about watching football & analysing; so to be an analyst their opinion needs to match yours otherwise that forum member knows nothing beyond FIFA. Makes perfect sense, thanks again SAF.
This could go on all night but we’ve a game in less than an hour & you’ve shown to be ‘woefully inept’ at answering a simple question. Feel free to circle back when feeling less victimised. Enjoy the game lass.
Awful today, too many touches and kept giving the ball away. Guess he’s earnt his paycheck though.. sigh.
Another £50m player that's average. Don't get me wrong he's not a bad player but you can find players like him dime a dozen for sub£20m.
I thought he was good today.
He had 90% accuracy. His passing was very good. The ball over the top to Rashford was fantastic and would have been, arguably, the best chance of the game had Rashford not messed up with the control.
He also put another ball over the top to Rashford earlier, but Rashford decided to try and dribble past everyone and lose the ball. I think he might have been offside also, so bad positioning.
He played the ball in between their lines a few times to Martial, who miss-controlled it on every occasion. Shame it wasn't Cavani as his hold up play is superior.
In the end, I think he was a victim of the poor performances of the front line and Fernandes. I think Pogba also suffered due to them.
Defended well also. It wasn't like they had numerous great chances or cut through our midfield; it was more two bad mistakes that undid us.
He had 90% accuracy. His passing was very good. The ball over the top to Rashford was fantastic and would have been, arguably, the best chance of the game had Rashford not messed up with the control.
He also put another ball over the top to Rashford earlier, but Rashford decided to try and dribble past everyone and lose the ball. I think he might have been offside also, so bad positioning.
He played the ball in between their lines a few times to Martial, who miss-controlled it on every occasion. Shame it wasn't Cavani as his hold up play is superior.
In the end, I think he was a victim of the poor performances of the front line and Fernandes. I think Pogba also suffered due to them.
Defended well also. It wasn't like they had numerous great chances or cut through our midfield; it was more two bad mistakes that undid us.
Well I’m an anti Fred. I see sporadic potential and spells where he seems to control but quoting stats ,90% accuracy, is deluded. What does that statistic break down to? I saw ,and now see a 50m player who I would sell and simply cannot understand the comments of world class, first on team sheet etc.
Look at his first game in pre season friendly and tell me where the 50million went?
Precisely this. Love Fred but he just doesn't produce the 50m worth goods for us. To think that we let Tielemans go for 30m is criminal.
He's gonna piss all over your lot in a fortnight.
He is underwhelming and highly unlikely to be part of a winning legacy team, unless he were to -in his own way- do the job of a Jisung Park. But the consistency and selflessness this would take look beyond him. While we're on the subject, your boy Martial's been a searing disappointment through the years so check yourself before you wreck yourself.
The first bad game the whole team was shit and Fred is shit.
Jheez.
Jheez.
Are you guys stupid? This guy is doing his job very well. Martial and super cute rashford are to blame for this mess
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