Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?


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Rajma

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Or just sell him to someone else. I think we’d come off looking daft if we didn’t get this done now.
To whom? Not many can afford his salary + fee and are in desperate need of midfielders. I think it’s telling that no other club seems to be in for him.
 

E-mal

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He has his issues with LVG but that was one of many issues he had and the other issues meant his issues with the coach escalated. At Real or PSG, he would try to work it out.

Didn’t want to leave RM and United were not his first choice
My move to PSG could have happened before this summer but it didn’t for financial reasons and I ended up going to United

Wife was against it and money was only factor

An offer from Manchester United has come in. Maybe we’ll be a little more financially secure.’”

We were perfect, the weather was perfect, the food was perfect. And suddenly he said that there was a proposal to go to Manchester. I told him, ‘Not a chance. You are going alone. ‘No, come on. Let’s go’, he replied

It was horrible. Manchester is the worst. It is all horrible in Manchester. In fact, I fought a lot with Angel about it”

I think the above two, and arguments with his wife meant he was always looking for an out.
I stayed in Manchester for 3 weeks and I can understand why she might not like it, food is crap, the wheather is horrible but the people are generally nice.
This is why having an a good English core might be nice.
My issue though is why do City South American and Spanish contingent don't complain about this?
 

OpenIntrovert

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A huge part of ETH’s remit is to coach the shit out of the existing players we have, not just sign new ones. I know this gets a lot of grief on here, and that makes me hesitate to say it, but Fred is a starter for Brasil. One of the best three national sides on the planet. He’s not a shit player. He’s got an incredible engine. I genuinely believe that ETH can make a Fred/De Jong double pivot work very, very well. It all comes down to coaching, systems, and players understanding what’s expected of them.

Before we signed Bruno Fernandes, it was obvious he was a special player, he combined an incredible work rate, a will to win, determination, and an eye for goal. Gradually most of that has slipped away, mainly through a sheer lack of coaching, and a general acceptance of apathy and mediocrity within the club. After a pre-season friendly against Sporting three years ago, Klopp described Bruno as an incredible player. The perfect player I think he said. Said he could do everything and was everywhere, all the time. He wanted to sign him but they didn’t have the budget. And that was the player we saw when he came, but it just ebbed away.

I honestly believe that a Fred, De Jong, Fernandes midfield, playing to its full potential in a properly coached team, would be truly superb. But it all comes back to coaching. Yes, I want us to see a few new faces this summer, but I am far more interested to see what ETH can do with our existing squad. The cycle of just replacing players and managers when it all goes tits up has to change.

At various points all of Rashford, Sancho, Fred, Bruno, Shaw, and Varane have all been highly coveted and/or top class. A really good manager should get a tune out of those players, because they are good players. Very good players, playing in shit systems, in a toxic environment. Whether they are part of that toxicity is almost irrelevant. A good manager and leader should be able to turn that around and get their buy in. Mostly, anyway.

We spent 80m on Maguire. He was never in a million years worth that. We’ve all seen he has the turning circle of a small oil tanker, but he was also never the completely useless lump of hilarious lard he has been for the last 12 months. He was a good player with some obvious deficiencies. Now he is a terrible player with almost no redeeming qualities? No, don’t buy it. Again, he should be able to be coached into some decent form, because there was a time when he was pretty good.

A player like De Jong is the catalyst to bring the idea and system together. To knit it all together from the middle of the park. He will have a multiplying effect on those around him. Like Carrick used to. The system, the approach, the understanding, instructions, and mentality are always more important than the player. That’s how the best managers extract incredible things from teams that are far greater than the sum of their parts. Fergie and Klopp are prime illustrators of this. We came third once with Giggs and O’Shea playing central midfield for half the season.

The squad needs a gradual overhaul for sure, an aggressive ball playing Center half would be another catalysing piece, and I think a versatile inverted, left footed right sided forward would be a very sensible addition. But the real success next season will come down to the coaching of our existing squad.

I’d like to see a serious squad built over the next 3-4 transfer windows, than a rush to fill spots and replace broken parts that may not actually be broken. Just poorly serviced. This summer getting 2-3 quality additions, then giving ETH 12 months to indoctrinate his ideas, methodology, rebuild the culture, and make a truly studious, informed analysis of who works and who doesn’t, and then hitting the market more aggressively, is the way to go IMO. It’s not flashy, it doesn’t satisfy the muppets, but it’s the desperately needed strategic approach that has been lacking for nearly a decade.

When you understand the system, you understand the player you need. That’s when you can start to use data analytics to make better recruitment decisions, and stop with this YouTube, eye test scouting nonsense. There are constantly players emerging who are on the cusp of becoming top talents. Where was Tchouameni two years ago, or Bellingham, or Haaland 3 years ago (we missed him on two moves), or Declan Rice 3 years ago. There are loads more and there will be loads more. But it’s hard to buy these players speculatively, thinking “well they may turn out great but we don’t have a plan to currently use them, so let’s watch them develop elsewhere to prove themselves and then spend 100m if they make it”. I know we tried with Bellingham, and sort of half arsed tried with Haaland, but they both went to clubs that knew what they were getting and most importantly how they would use them. That’s no coincidence. All the data analytics in the world don’t mean anything if you don’t know how you play or what you really need.

That is ETH’s job next season. And that’s why I support his pursuit of De Jong. Not because he’s a top player, because top players don’t mean a thing in a poorly coached and unstructured side, but because he knows exactly how he wants to use him, how he wants him to play, and where he fits in.
Excellent post! ETH knows that the squad is capable of better performances as evidenced in 20/21 season. He is probably going to bring them up to mark and those that still do not respond, will be replaced eventually.

I am sure that he is bringing in De Jong because he knows that midfield is heavily imbalanced (5 AMs - Bruno/Fred/VDB/Pereira/Sancho, 1 CM - McTominay and 0 DMs). Fred and McTominay were pushed to DM due to their workrate and defensive duties and that was why we had problems against teams with better midfields. With De Jong in, the midfield balance is slightly better with De Jong capable of playing as a DM or CM.
 

2 man midfield

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To whom? Not many can afford his salary + fee and are in desperate need of midfielders. I think it’s telling that no other club seems to be in for him.
No idea, I’ve said a few times in this thread that we hold all the cards and should make them sweat for most of June. I’m always wary of someone swooping in last minute though, even more so if he’s coming here due to lack of other options.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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Excellent post! ETH knows that the squad is capable of better performances as evidenced in 20/21 season. He is probably going to bring them up to mark and those that still do not respond, will be replaced eventually.

I am sure that he is bringing in De Jong because he knows that midfield is heavily imbalanced (5 AMs - Bruno/Fred/VDB/Pereira/Sancho, 1 CM - McTominay and 0 DMs). Fred and McTominay were pushed to DM due to their workrate and defensive duties and that was why we had problems against teams with better midfields. With De Jong in, the midfield balance is slightly better with De Jong capable of playing as a DM or CM.
Seems a waste if we get De Jong and play him at DM somehow
 

NoPace

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I'll talk myself into a Fred-DM-DeJong midfield being okay under Ten Hag if we don't get Frenkie, but I think this one is essential. Missing out on guys who can control the midfield like Modric and Kroos just killed for a decade and a half.
 

Dan_F

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I stayed in Manchester for 3 weeks and I can understand why she might not like it, food is crap, the wheather is horrible but the people are generally nice.
This is why having an a good English core might be nice.
My issue though is why do City South American and Spanish contingent don't complain about this?
Because they’re winning titles.

This Di Maria thing is so much bollocks anyway, on many different levels. De Jong is Dutch not South American for a start. But even then, there’s been loads of South American and Spanish players who love/loved being in Manchester.

Not to mention we sold Di Maria the season after for about £10 million less. It’s not like we lost £60 million like some are making out.
 

AltiUn

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He would be a great signing but would essentially be a replacement for Pogba. He’s a cleverer team player than Pogba and reminds me of Xavi somewhat.

The balance of the team will still be off without a Rice type, someone with a great engine, aggressive and defensively intelligent. I hope we can find and afford somebody with those qualities as well.
Not quite, he is a DLP but not a DM. He’d need a Kante, Fabinho or Fernandinho type next to him to excel, I think he’d be poor alongside someone like Rice tbh.
 

AdNani

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He'll play the role Pogba played in that he'll be the one collecting from deep, except he's actually excellent at it. If we sign a disciplined defensive midfielder to play next to him i think there will be a massive improvement, I think our defensive issues have stemmed from there being a complete lack of protection, and our attacking issues stem from the same areas of the pitch. in that we were unable to keep the ball and progress it if there was any pressure.
 

FrankDrebin

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De Jong is open to the idea of joining United but preferably would want to stay at the camp nou.
 

Sandikan

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I stayed in Manchester for 3 weeks and I can understand why she might not like it, food is crap, the wheather is horrible but the people are generally nice.
This is why having an a good English core might be nice.
My issue though is why do City South American and Spanish contingent don't complain about this?
Always wonder at this sort of bizarre post on food.
As if all players are limited to just using some working class greasy spoon cafe.
 

LordSpud

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Remember we chased Nunez for months only for Liverpool to get him. While what Reshad may be true, its also well know that Barca needs money. So they nust sell him.. BUT who's to say we don't dawdle again and someone else comes in with 80m and he goes elsewhere?
 

OpenIntrovert

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Seems a waste if we get De Jong and play him at DM somehow
Depends on the tactics. De Jong brings versatility and with the right tactic, he can play very well. For example, De Jong can be a DM while McTominay and Garner become the CMs (Diamond shaped midfield). In such a midfield combination, we can have McTominay and Garner helping more with the defensive duties as well as moving forward in attack, where the opponent will have to focus on these 2 more. De Jong will then play the Pirlo role in creating play since he has more space and freedom and he is also capable of defending, which will be useful during opponent's possession of the ball. De Jong can play as a CM in a 4-3-3 shape which will also make good use of his skills.
 

FrankDrebin

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Considering Barca's notorious financial predicament, De Jong's form and the fact the kid is on a rather insane contract I ,personally, thought our opening bid was quite reasonable really.
 

ehsanul

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Remember we chased Nunez for months only for Liverpool to get him. While what Reshad may be true, its also well know that Barca needs money. So they nust sell him.. BUT who's to say we don't dawdle again and someone else comes in with 80m and he goes elsewhere?
We always do the running then someone scores the tap in like Fabrizio Romano does.
 

TsuWave

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Its getting tiresome dont know who is telling the truth.
these things aren’t mutually exclusive and both could be true. Being open to a move to United whilst wanting to stay being his main desire just means he wants to stay but if his club wants to sell him he’s OK with a move to United
 

Redlyn

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Its getting tiresome dont know who is telling the truth.
I think both are true. He wants to stay at Barca (this we all already know). But if Barca push him out he would consider united.
 

phelans shorts

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these things aren’t mutually exclusive and both could be true. Being open to a move to United whilst wanting to stay being his main desire just means he wants to stay but if his club wants to sell him he’s OK with a move to United
Yeah there’s absolutely nothing contradictory in what the two sides are saying, it’s just framed through a different lense
 

Jonnymufc

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I stayed in Manchester for 3 weeks and I can understand why she might not like it, food is crap, the wheather is horrible but the people are generally nice.
This is why having an a good English core might be nice.
My issue though is why do City South American and Spanish contingent don't complain about this?
Just interested, what do you mean when you say the food is crap in Manchester? I mean, there is some incredible food available in the city; restaurants with great cuisine from all over the world. Just depends where you eat surely?

Weather: can't argue with you on that one.
 

OpenIntrovert

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Remember we chased Nunez for months only for Liverpool to get him. While what Reshad may be true, its also well know that Barca needs money. So they nust sell him.. BUT who's to say we don't dawdle again and someone else comes in with 80m and he goes elsewhere?
The media basically just put 1 and 1 together and made up a story that we were chasing Nunez because we only had 1 recognized center forward and Nunez happened to be the best option of the available striker list. We certainly have scouted for him, as all scouts do at every club whenever there is a lack of options in a certain position. However it is the manager that decides if there is a strong need in that area, since they know what is necessary for their tactics to work. Nunez was never a critical option for us since ETH came in, but the media had to "sell" their stories, so they beefed up their stories to say that we were hunting him down but we lost out.
 

croadyman

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Eh, per 90 minutes, Fred blows him out of the water for tackling stats.
There’s not much that McTominay is actually good at. It’s harsh and I don’t like being this absolute about our players, but true. The hope here is that we sign another midfielder to play alongside De Jong. In fact I actually think we need it massively. FDJ replaces the ‘Pogba’ we just lost, we need someone to replace the ‘Matic’ profile.
You have totally nailed it with last sentence
 

cyberman

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Yes, oddly. As there's just as many things saying it's not close as the opposite.
If many people are telling me it’s raining outside I’m looking out the window. There’s really nothing odd about it
 

OpenIntrovert

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Tier 1 for barca.
I am not sure about the deal's status, but I am very sure that Barcacenter would want to protect Barcelona's pride by saying that nobody has looked for De Jong. They dont want to be seen as a selling club due to their financial situations, rather they want to be seen as someone who is still a force.
 

croadyman

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He would be a great signing but would essentially be a replacement for Pogba. He’s a cleverer team player than Pogba and reminds me of Xavi somewhat.

The balance of the team will still be off without a Rice type, someone with a great engine, aggressive and defensively intelligent. I hope we can find and afford somebody with those qualities as well.
Yeah like you say we need that to provide balance
 

Xaviboy

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Barcelona need the money, sounds like no other interests in other players they need to sell or move on.

Have a list of players they want to bring in but can't due to financial situation, desperate to bring in Lewandoski as well.

De Jong to utd be done. Just matter of time.
 
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