Future planning - Replacing Carrick

Devil may care said:
Thanks, I seem to remember him for some reason, did he get hyped when about 19/20 and then miss a block of time with a bad injury? I like Jorginho but I think he's much too slow for the PL personally. I see you've mentioned Tolisso a few times, he's an interesting option, I'd say he has some of the same attributes as Renato Sanches but a lot more refined on the ball.
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I don't know to be honest, I haven't followed Fernando that closely. I'd have the same doubts as you regarding Jorginho, also Brazilian players haven't worked out for us. Fernando is more mobile in comparison.

Tolisso is IMO a really interesting and talented player. Especially in terms of technique, passing and decision making he can become a great player in my eyes. He regularly stood out, when I watched the under 21s from France. I haven't seen Renato Sanches, so I don't really know, if they are comparable in terms of style, Tolisso isn't much of dribbler though. He has done well as the holding midfielder in Gonalons' role, but he's probably at his best with more freedom.

IMO we definitely need to sign 2 central midfielders, since Carrick should retire and Fellaini should be moved on. Ideally I'd want all 3, but that's unrealistic. I've been very disappointed with our midfield signings, especially after neglecting it for so long I was really hopeful. Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Herrera can obviously improve under a different manager, nonetheless we need more quality in midfield.
 
We don't just need a replacement for Carrick. We need an upgrade. A more nimble, technically gifted, aggressive version of Carrick.. which would allow us to go toe to toe with the best teams in the world.

Verratti would have been the ultimate upgrade tbh. We need to look for someone of his ilk/attributes.
 
Raees said:
We don't just need a replacement for Carrick. We need an upgrade. A more nimble, technically gifted, aggressive version of Carrick.. which would allow us to go toe to toe with the best teams in the world.

Verratti would have been the ultimate upgrade tbh. We need to look for someone of his ilk/attributes.
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Agreed, Carrick was decent over the years but not world class and far from a leader Keane was who was also a better footballer. Schneiderlin once he settles might be on his way to emulate Carrick but if we went for a world class midfielder I wouldnt say a thing
 
Fer said:
I can see Carrick and Fellaini leaving in the summer, so we would definitely need a new midfielder.

If we play with 3 midfielders (433)...
  • Where do you think it's the best position of Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Fosu-Mensah and Blind?
Schneiderlin is best as a DM (either as bottom of pyramid or in a 2 man mid). Schweini - CM only and in a three man mid. TFM (hard to tell as he is young, but DM/side midfielder in a diamond?), Blind DM v smaller teams/general utility player
  • Where Januzaj and Mata would fit in that formation?
they don't. Sell them.
  • Which quality player is available to play as defensive midfielder with good passing range?
Kante/Nevez
  • Would you prefer a player like Isco/Barkley or Kante?
Kante, although we definitely need a 10 too as none of the ones at the club are good enough especially if Perreira doesn't develop.
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bucky said:
Tolisso is IMO a really interesting and talented player. Especially in terms of technique, passing and decision making he can become a great player in my eyes. He regularly stood out, when I watched the under 21s from France. I haven't seen Renato Sanches, so I don't really know, if they are comparable in terms of style, Tolisso isn't much of dribbler though. He has done well as the holding midfielder in Gonalons' role, but he's probably at his best with more freedom.
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From what I have seen of him I think he'd be best used as a #8 in as proper 3 man midfield, his athleticism and pass choice in the final 3rd is wasted in the deepest CM role.

IMO we definitely need to sign 2 central midfielders, since Carrick should retire and Fellaini should be moved on. Ideally I'd want all 3, but that's unrealistic. I've been very disappointed with our midfield signings, especially after neglecting it for so long I was really hopeful. Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Herrera can obviously improve under a different manager, nonetheless we need more quality in midfield.
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I'd hope we see improvements in Schneiderlin and Herrera under a new manager but our midfield is really lacking in athleticism and players that have the technique to play under pressure from the press and use the ball progressively rather than quickly dumping it off.
 
Devil may care said:
From what I have seen of him I think he'd be best used as a #8 in as proper 3 man midfield, his athleticism and pass choice in the final 3rd is wasted in the deepest CM role.



I'd hope we see improvements in Schneiderlin and Herrera under a new manager but our midfield is really lacking in athleticism and players that have the technique to play under pressure from the press and use the ball progressively rather than quickly dumping it off.
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What do you have in mind in terms of more athleticism? Someone like Kante? Someone who is quicker? Can't help but feel that all our players are a bit unfit, because they constantly look tired. Mata said as much in an interview at the end of September, which is bizarre at the beginning of the season. He looked completely exhausted post game. Plus Dortmund saying of two of our players they aren't in the best shape possible, I can't help but feel that we are doing something wrong at Carrington. Frankly this season only delivered evidence that it's true what Dortmund were saying, especially if you look at the amount of injuries we've had. Furthermore Dortmund for example have played a lot of games because of their Europa League schedule and they haven't exactly rotated or rested players more than we did, yet had fewer injuries than us. What I'm trying to say is that a lack of athleticism isn't something I would have associated with Herrera and Schneiderlin. It was actually something that stood out for me with those two. Also, van Gaal likes it, if his team or players run less than the opponent, because the players are supposed to work in their designated spaces and use them cleverly. Particularly Schneiderlin isn't used in the best way possible I think.
 
André Gomes looks the part.

22 years old, 6'2", powerful, bundle of energy, direct, solid defensively and great going forward. His passing is excellent too.
 
Knowing typical Jose he may try and get us already established ones such as Kroos which is nothing bad but like people already said earlier here... Younger and possibly more ambitious players with something to prove with possibly bigger potential than Carrick in Pogba, Verratti, Gomes - that's the way to go in building a team and most of them would inject needed energy and movement in far bigger rate than Kroos and pretty much everyone who we already have at our disposal (Blind, Herrera, Schneiderlin).

Bastian will be sufficient to remain in the team at some point but his knee is giving signs of fatigue and most likely he will need someone to put off the pressure.

Fellaini isn't even a classic, creative midfielder so either find him finally a proper role or just replace him with someone better. (Shouldn't be that hard.)
 
Van Piorsing said:
Knowing typical Jose he may try and get us already established ones such as Kroos which is nothing bad but like people already said earlier here... Younger and possibly more ambitious players with something to prove with possibly bigger potential than Carrick in Pogba, Verratti, Gomes - that's the way to go in building a team and most of them would inject needed energy and movement in far bigger rate than Kroos and pretty much everyone who we already have at our disposal (Blind, Herrera, Schneiderlin).

Bastian will be sufficient to remain in the team at some point but his knee is giving signs of fatigue and most likely he will need someone to put off the pressure.

Fellaini isn't even a classic, creative midfielder so either find him finally a proper role or just replace him with someone better. (Shouldn't be that hard.)
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I agree although Pogba would cost nearly £100m, same with Verratti, I don't think André Gomes wouldn't cost nearly as much compared the other 2. £20m-£30m.

Would definitely like to see him in a Midfield 3 with Schneiderlin & Herrera
 
Cheekiey said:
I agree although Pogba would cost nearly £100m, same with Verratti, I don't think André Gomes wouldn't cost nearly as much compared the other 2. £20m-£30m.

Would definitely like to see him in a Midfield 3 with Schneiderlin & Herrera
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Perhaps it's time to put Woody's words to a test about supposedly doing what other clubs can only dream of in an ordinary tranfer window or maybe it's just a case of proper player management from someone who won few things in PL already.

Even with sad perspective of rotting in Europa League next season, a guy like Gomes should be easily at our range so I definitely won't complain about few realistic signings among few game changers of course.
 
Schneiderlin, Blind, Schweinsteiger and Fosu-Mensah can play Carrick's role. So I prefer someone to compete with Herrera.
 
Replacing Carrick means the same thing with replacing Scholes. Replacing someone who can dictate a tempo with great range of passing and vision. What we have is basically Blind but he's nowhere near Carrick's level. Busquest, Kross and Verrati would be my best choice but unrealistic as I can't see Busquest and Verratti leaving Barcelona and PSG. There was a rumour that Real Madrid might sell Kross but seriously realistically I don't think it will happen this summer, if it happens then it's surely going to be a dream signing for us.
 
bucky said:
What do you have in mind in terms of more athleticism? Someone like Kante? Someone who is quicker? Can't help but feel that all our players are a bit unfit, because they constantly look tired. Mata said as much in an interview at the end of September, which is bizarre at the beginning of the season. He looked completely exhausted post game. Plus Dortmund saying of two of our players they aren't in the best shape possible, I can't help but feel that we are doing something wrong at Carrington. Frankly this season only delivered evidence that it's true what Dortmund were saying, especially if you look at the amount of injuries we've had. Furthermore Dortmund for example have played a lot of games because of their Europa League schedule and they haven't exactly rotated or rested players more than we did, yet had fewer injuries than us. What I'm trying to say is that a lack of athleticism isn't something I would have associated with Herrera and Schneiderlin. It was actually something that stood out for me with those two. Also, van Gaal likes it, if his team or players run less than the opponent, because the players are supposed to work in their designated spaces and use them cleverly. Particularly Schneiderlin isn't used in the best way possible I think.
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Athleticism might not have been the exact right word, there aren't lots of Pogba type CM's IMO, I was meaning more in the way of agility and mobility so they can take a pass under pressure and be progressive, shield the ball, get turned and play it up field, as well of course being able to get turned quickly to help the back 4 when we don't have the ball.
 
What about Kroos if he is available in the summer? Do you think a midfield of Kroos-Schneiderlin would be balanced?
 
Raees said:
We don't just need a replacement for Carrick. We need an upgrade. A more nimble, technically gifted, aggressive version of Carrick.. which would allow us to go toe to toe with the best teams in the world.
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Agreed. People forget how we were still calling for someone better to play with him in his/our prime. As good as he is/was, he was never quite a world beater (which is what we should be aiming for).
 
Mike09 said:
Replacing Carrick means the same thing with replacing Scholes. Replacing someone who can dictate a tempo with great range of passing and vision. What we have is basically Blind but he's nowhere near Carrick's level. Busquest, Kross and Verrati would be my best choice but unrealistic as I can't see Busquest and Verratti leaving Barcelona and PSG. There was a rumour that Real Madrid might sell Kross but seriously realistically I don't think it will happen this summer, if it happens then it's surely going to be a dream signing for us.
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Some erratic name spelling going on here :lol:
 
Fer said:
What about Kroos if he is available in the summer? Do you think a midfield of Kroos-Schneiderlin would be balanced?
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No, Kroos lacks mobility and defensive nous, I honestly don't think he's cut out for the PL hustle.
 
JB7 said:
Two things that Paul Scholes managed to carve out a half decent career without...
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Scholes is tough and he had mobility, he had that low center of gravity that allowed him to wriggle out of tight situations under pressure.
 
JB7 said:
Two things that Paul Scholes managed to carve out a half decent career without...
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Might sound like clichéd narrative, but Paul Scholes had one thing (in spades) that Toni Kroos doesn't - and that's heart (in spades). Of Madrid's central duo, Luka Modrić is much closer to Scholes' style of play than Kroos in that not only does he have wonderful technique and passing range, but he had that gritty, relentless gene in him which enabled him to overcome certain shortcomings, and carve out a niche as a central midfielder in English football. Or even Santi Cazorla to an extent. Just don't see it with Kroos, and even a lot of Bayern supporters decried his (at times) passive approach. He will struggle with the frantic nature of football in the Premier League unless we tailor the team to surround him with runners, and a defensive midfielder with supernatural workrate to compensate for the deficit. But the thing is - he's not really that good of a player to be afforded that luxury. La Liga is perfect for him in that it's not that physical, and he can showcase his technical abilities.

Midfielders like Verratti and Gündogan (tad unrealistic, both of 'em) are more suited to English football than Kroos. Or someone like Saúl or Neves from the younger lot. The former is not as good of a passer as Kroos, but he's a brilliant all-round midfielder; and the latter allies excellent passing abilities with warrior-like spirit - his diminished form in recent months now-withstanding.
 
Devil may care said:
Scholes is tough and he had mobility, he had that low center of gravity that allowed him to wriggle out of tight situations under pressure.
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Invictus said:
Might sound like clichéd narrative, but Paul Scholes had one thing (in spades) that Toni Kroos doesn't - and that's heart (in spades). Of Madrid's central duo, Luka Modrić is much closer to Scholes' style of play than Kroos in that not only does he have wonderful technique and passing range, but he had that gritty, relentless gene in him which enabled him to overcome certain shortcomings, and carve out a niche as a central midfielder in English football. Or even Santi Cazorla to an extent. Just don't see it with Kroos, and even a lot of Bayern supporters decried his (at times) passive approach. He will struggle with the frantic nature of football in the Premier League unless we tailor the team to surround him with runners, and a defensive midfielder with supernatural workrate to compensate for the deficit. But the thing is - he's not really that good of a player to be afforded that luxury. La Liga is perfect for him in that it's not that physical, and he can showcase his technical abilities.

Midfielders like Verratti and Gündogan (tad unrealistic, both of 'em) are more suited to English football than Kroos. Or someone like Saúl or Neves from the younger lot. The former is not as good of a passer as Kroos, but he's a brilliant all-round midfielder; and the latter allies excellent passing abilities with warrior-like spirit - his diminished form in recent months now-withstanding.
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Must explain - I was being pedantic. I'm not a huge fan of Kroos and wouldn't overly like him at United but I do think he could have a good career in the Premier League if he went somewhere like Arsenal or like City will be under Pep. He has the ability, but definitely doesn't the "heart" of Scholes as you have said Invictus. To be quite honest, he's probably the perfect midfielder in LVGs eyes.
 
m1y2 said:
Agreed, Carrick was decent over the years but not world class and far from a leader Keane was who was also a better footballer. Schneiderlin once he settles might be on his way to emulate Carrick but if we went for a world class midfielder I wouldnt say a thing
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The term world class is boring, but you have a short memory if you only think Carrick was decent at his peak. He was a fantastic player, even as recently as his final season with Fergie. He does need replacing now though.
 
jem said:
The term world class is boring, but you have a short memory if you only think Carrick was decent at his peak. He was a fantastic player, even as recently as his final season with Fergie. He does need replacing now though.
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he was great and consistent over years but not even close to Scholes and certainly less influential than Keane, you can say midfield became our big problem and Keane/Scholes were never properly replaced, it's baffling we are replacing Carrick as some kind of half god in 35, we should have brought much more quality in the team after Scholes started to decline.
 
I'd like to see us go after someone like Kante and move to a more mobile midfield system.

For example, a 433 with a midfield of Kante, Schneiderlin and say Pogba, would be monsterous.
 
There's a rumor about Kroos coming to the premier league and Kante to Madrid. It seems that Zidane wants the french player next season.
 
Everybody is talking about replacing Carrick. At his best, Carrick is the ultimate passer, however if he doesn't have the clever movement up front he is rendered useless resorting to the sideways or safe passes. At present, our strikers and "wingers" are not clever enough or experienced enough to do that.
Think of Carrick at his best. Rooney was providing the movement, RVP was great at creating space, Chicarito was full of movement, Tevez was Tevez and Ronaldo always provided an outlet for counter attack etc, etc.
Replacing Carrick would be rendered useless if we do not fix what is wrong upfront IMO.
 
In my opinion we should replace LVG and see if Schneiderlin and Blind can edge this out.
 
Jinn said:
Everybody is talking about replacing Carrick. At his best, Carrick is the ultimate passer, however if he doesn't have the clever movement up front he is rendered useless resorting to the sideways or safe passes. At present, our strikers and "wingers" are not clever enough or experienced enough to do that.
Think of Carrick at his best. Rooney was providing the movement, RVP was great at creating space, Chicarito was full of movement, Tevez was Tevez and Ronaldo always provided an outlet for counter attack etc, etc.
Replacing Carrick would be rendered useless if we do not fix what is wrong upfront IMO.
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midfield who can dictate a tempo to replace carrick, top class forward who has clever movement as what you mentioned before and experience good centre back for Smalling's partnership. If we have additional players for all of these we are definitely on the right track.
 
If we need some similar to Carrick, I think Kroos is our best choice, mainly because Verrati/Pogba are unrealistic and Gundogan could be heading to City.
 
Yesterday is a perfect illustration of why Schneiderlin is not Carrick's replacement, he's the guy that plays with Carrick's replacement. Most top teams have a CM that screens the defense and orchestrates the offense, we need that player to compliment Schneiderlin's strengths.
 
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