Gabriel Jesus | Arsenal

Botim

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He's at a goal per 211 minutes in the premier league this season. Not bad, but certainly not great either.
 

432JuanMata

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Sure but we are talking about the best team in the country. That’s the standard they have set, Jesus isn’t good enough!
I’m not saying your not right but back to your original comment about City players boosting their stats surely that can’t apply to most or all as they are good enough to play for city and if it applies to most it doesn’t make sense as the reason they are so good is that most are top level
 

Berbaclass

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Sure but we are talking about the best team in the country. That’s the standard they have set, Jesus isn’t good enough!
Aguero is one of the best PL strikers ever. Jesus is a step-down but he does an important job on the periphery for them. His workrate is very underrated.
 

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He's a brilliant player but he just doesn't suit the 9 role or possession football. Last season against RM when City were more direct he was the best player in the pitch, I think many people would rate him higher if he played for Napoli/Dortmund where I feel his style would fit more.
 

432JuanMata

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He's a brilliant player but he just doesn't suit the 9 role or possession football. Last season against RM when City were more direct he was the best player in the pitch, I think many people would rate him higher if he played for Napoli/Dortmund where I feel his style would fit more.
He was best player on the pitch as he was thrown on the wing and worked his ass off his work rate is underrated. He would need to improve his goal scoring big time to be #9 at city but he will always be a squad player if he doesn’t improve
 

RooneyLegend

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The long and short of it is that he's a poor finisher. Terrible at striking the ball. Similar to Sterling in that regard, they need really easy chances to consistently score which you can get away with at City.
 

K Stand Knut

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I still don’t get the debate with this guy.

massively over-rated and a very poor striker.

He’d be so poor at any other team bar maybe Liverpool last season.

I think he’s awful and won’t be at city much longer
 

sun_tzu

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If he wants to win medals and he's happy as a back up striker he couldn't be anywhere better right now.

If he wants to get 1st team football and establish himself somewhere he probably has to move clubs... and I think probably most other clubs would change his position as he really wouldn't be a lone centre forward for many managers other than pep... probably a wide forward or part of a front 2
 

Chief123

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City have so many players elevated by Peps system. They would be found out at other clubs.

Pep is a fraud.
People are talking about his amazing defence now. But to be honest if you give any manager in the world £400m alone to spend on just defenders you would have to get it right at some point.

He’s had just as many flops as successes.
 

adexkola

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People are talking about his amazing defence now. But to be honest if you give any manager in the world £400m alone to spend on just defenders you would have to get it right at some point.

He’s had just as many flops as successes.
2 years ago I would have argued that his teams usually concede less than other teams so he's always had his defense right for the most part

Today I agree with what you are saying. I also nod when people say he's a fraud, and keep it pushing.
 

padr81

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People are talking about his amazing defence now. But to be honest if you give any manager in the world £400m alone to spend on just defenders you would have to get it right at some point.

He’s had just as many flops as successes.
Name his flop defenders.
 

hasanejaz88

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Name his flop defenders.
John Stones for 4 seasons, Benjamin Mendy, Claudio Bravo (not a defender but a defensive signing). Ake also doesn't seem to be getting many playing minutes and might well turn into a flop.
 

footballistic orgasm

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I still don’t get the debate with this guy.

massively over-rated and a very poor striker.

He’d be so poor at any other team bar maybe Liverpool last season.

I think he’s awful and won’t be at city much longer
Pep obviously doesn't share your opinion. He isn't a pure striker like Aguero but he possesses a lot of qualities that Pep likes and that Aguero and other better goal scorers don't.

If he wants to win medals and he's happy as a back up striker he couldn't be anywhere better right now.

If he wants to get 1st team football and establish himself somewhere he probably has to move clubs... and I think probably most other clubs would change his position as he really wouldn't be a lone centre forward for many managers other than pep... probably a wide forward or part of a front 2
He's basically a starter for City though.

People are talking about his amazing defence now. But to be honest if you give any manager in the world £400m alone to spend on just defenders you would have to get it right at some point.

He’s had just as many flops as successes.
Name these defensive flops other than maybe Mendy (we know injuries have played a major role in his career though) who's still in the club...
 

Oranges038

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John Stones for 4 seasons, Benjamin Mendy, Claudio Bravo (not a defender but a defensive signing). Ake also doesn't seem to be getting many playing minutes and might well turn into a flop.
Not just at City, don't forget all his flops at Bayern and Barca.
 

padr81

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John Stones for 4 seasons, Benjamin Mendy, Claudio Bravo (not a defender but a defensive signing). Ake also doesn't seem to be getting many playing minutes and might well turn into a flop.
Stones was brilliant first 6 months of our 100 point season, than injured. As good as he has been this season. Bravo is not a defender and was solid after his first sesson as a rotation option, which given he cost peanuts was fine. Akes been injured all season and only back a week. You have Mendy.
 

VivaObertan

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Pep obviously doesn't share your opinion. He isn't a pure striker like Aguero but he possesses a lot of qualities that Pep likes and that Aguero and other better goal scorers don't.


He's basically a starter for City though.


Name these defensive flops other than maybe Mendy (we know injuries have played a major role in his career though) who's still in the club...
I think the stockpiling of multiple expensive players per position is more a City policy than a Pep-specific thing.

Since 2012/13:
  • Javi Garcia
  • Nastasic
  • Maicon
  • Richard Wright
  • Demichelis
  • Mangala
  • Caballero
  • Sagna
  • Otamendi
  • Delph (Don't remember him playing CM, only LB... knock off £10m if you like)
  • Stones
  • Bravo
  • Zinchenko
  • Laporte
  • Mendy
  • Walker
  • Ederson
  • Danilo
  • Cancelo
  • Angelino
  • Steffen
  • Dias
  • Ake
Total cost of c. £580m. In the same period, United (high spenders in their own right) spent £290m on defence.

The point is that Manchester City are buying multiple £50m+ players per position, which I don't believe any other team in the world have done before. If United had signed Stones for 50m and he performed so badly for 3-4 years, we'd have had to rely on him (or sell him within a season) because of how much was spent in defence. City just bought another 3 CBs (costing £160m) whilst keeping Stones (a £50m player) as backup, and their performances didn't suffer as a result.

Re: Gabriel Jesus - I think he's a good striker who would look good at United with his work rate and our playstyle. Likewise I think he could make a good replacement for Jamie Vardy at Leicester.

PS. Sorry for going off-topic but it's something I feel worth recognising.
 

footballistic orgasm

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I think the stockpiling of multiple expensive players per position is more a City policy than a Pep-specific thing.

Since 2012/13:
  • Javi Garcia
  • Nastasic
  • Maicon
  • Richard Wright
  • Demichelis
  • Mangala
  • Caballero
  • Sagna
  • Otamendi
  • Delph (Don't remember him playing CM, only LB... knock off £10m if you like)
  • Stones
  • Bravo
  • Zinchenko
  • Laporte
  • Mendy
  • Walker
  • Ederson
  • Danilo
  • Cancelo
  • Angelino
  • Steffen
  • Dias
  • Ake
Total cost of c. £580m. In the same period, United (high spenders in their own right) spent £290m on defence.

The point is that Manchester City are buying multiple £50m+ players per position, which I don't believe any other team in the world have done before. If United had signed Stones for 50m and he performed so badly for 3-4 years, we'd have had to rely on him (or sell him within a season) because of how much was spent in defence. City just bought another 3 CBs (costing £160m) whilst keeping Stones (a £50m player) as backup, and their performances didn't suffer as a result.

Re: Gabriel Jesus - I think he's a good striker who would look good at United with his work rate and our playstyle. Likewise I think he could make a good replacement for Jamie Vardy at Leicester.

PS. Sorry for going off-topic but it's something I feel worth recognising.
You just listed a bunch of defenders but couldn't name the ones bought by Pep that are flops, and that's because the only one that is close to being a flop is Mendy.
Calling a Stones a flop is laughable.

As for Jesus, he actually looks very good for City (even with the fact that he isn't clinical) because he's exactly the type of striker that fits Pep's style and what he wants in a striker.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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You just listed a bunch of defenders but couldn't name the ones bought by Pep that are flops, and that's because the only one that is close to being a flop is Mendy.
Calling a Stones a flop is laughable.

As for Jesus, he actually looks very good for City (even with the fact that he isn't clinical) because he's exactly the type of striker that fits Pep's style and what he wants in a striker.
Yeah I agree. I don't know how anyone can call Stones a flop. Mendy is a different case.
 

padr81

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I think the stockpiling of multiple expensive players per position is more a City policy than a Pep-specific thing.

Since 2012/13:
  • Javi Garcia
  • Nastasic
  • Maicon
  • Richard Wright
  • Demichelis
  • Mangala
  • Caballero
  • Sagna
  • Otamendi
  • Delph (Don't remember him playing CM, only LB... knock off £10m if you like)
  • Stones
  • Bravo
  • Zinchenko
  • Laporte
  • Mendy
  • Walker
  • Ederson
  • Danilo
  • Cancelo
  • Angelino
  • Steffen
  • Dias
  • Ake
Total cost of c. £580m. In the same period, United (high spenders in their own right) spent £290m on defence.

The point is that Manchester City are buying multiple £50m+ players per position, which I don't believe any other team in the world have done before. If United had signed Stones for 50m and he performed so badly for 3-4 years, we'd have had to rely on him (or sell him within a season) because of how much was spent in defence. City just bought another 3 CBs (costing £160m) whilst keeping Stones (a £50m player) as backup, and their performances didn't suffer as a result.

Re: Gabriel Jesus - I think he's a good striker who would look good at United with his work rate and our playstyle. Likewise I think he could make a good replacement for Jamie Vardy at Leicester.

PS. Sorry for going off-topic but it's something I feel worth recognising.
Javi Garcia was bought as a midfielder as was Delph and even Zinchenko, the later two getting shoehorned into LB. But I completely agree buying two top players for each position is a luxury City have. That is a fair post.

Unrelated to your post but on the back of you post making so much sense what I find unfair is when people say Pep's defensive signings have been flops. Long term most his signings found their feet bar Mendy, Nolito and maybe Bravo and for his defensive flops and this talk of him "finally" getting it right, in almost 5 years at the club his teams have conceded 145 goals in 182 games, no team in England has come close to that in the same period and when considering how attacking City play no team in history has come close to matching our goal difference over 5 seasons +302 (with 10 games to go) so an average GD of around +60 per season.
 

adexkola

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Yeah I agree. I don't know how anyone can call Stones a flop. Mendy is a different case.
And... When Mendy got crocked, Pep didn't sign a replacement LB. He decided to co-opt two midfielders (Delph and Zinchenko) to play at LB instead.

So much for the "oh he just buys until it succeeds theory"
 

padr81

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You just listed a bunch of defenders but couldn't name the ones bought by Pep that are flops, and that's because the only one that is close to being a flop is Mendy.
Calling a Stones a flop is laughable.

As for Jesus, he actually looks very good for City (even with the fact that he isn't clinical) because he's exactly the type of striker that fits Pep's style and what he wants in a striker.
I don't think he was implying they were flops, just that we bought a lot of defenders which is fair as we did. Pep's defensive signings though have probably been as good as his attacking signings for all the shit spouted about Cities defence... This won't even be his best performing defence at City unless we only concede one goal in our last 8 games (highly unlikely)
 

Paddy B

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John Stones for 4 seasons, Benjamin Mendy, Claudio Bravo (not a defender but a defensive signing). Ake also doesn't seem to be getting many playing minutes and might well turn into a flop.
You haven't a clue what you are talking about. Ake hasn't been getting any playing minutes because he has been injured all season.
 

K Stand Knut

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Pep obviously doesn't share your opinion. He isn't a pure striker like Aguero but he possesses a lot of qualities that Pep likes and that Aguero and other better goal scorers don't.
I guess we'll find out but Pep's decisions about playing him (or more importantly, not) in certain games this season says a lot.

He didn't start any of the games against us in the EFL, Liverpool or Arsenal when Pep decided not to play any number 9 at all.

I know the qualities that he offers and I understand that Pep sees these qualities but my original point was that he only works in a system such as city's or Liverpool's last season where they absolutely dominate games and generate loads and loads of chances. Put him at Everton and he'd look really poor, IMO.

He is not a very good striker and I'd hazard a guess that if city buy a 'traditional' number 9 this summer, his playing time will be from the bench 99% of the time.
 

padr81

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I guess we'll find out but Pep's decisions about playing him (or more importantly, not) in certain games this season says a lot.

He didn't start any of the games against us in the EFL, Liverpool or Arsenal when Pep decided not to play any number 9 at all.

I know the qualities that he offers and I understand that Pep sees these qualities but my original point was that he only works in a system such as city's or Liverpool's last season where they absolutely dominate games and generate loads and loads of chances. Put him at Everton and he'd look really poor, IMO.

He is not a very good striker and I'd hazard a guess that if city buy a 'traditional' number 9 this summer, his playing time will be from the bench 99% of the time.
I disagree, Pep loves him, he's probably one of his favorite players at the club along with Gundogan. He's already said he believes the goals will come and he doesn't judge Jesus on only goals anyway because of everything else he adds. He constantly makes space for our wingers to play, he's got a great touch, is a good strong dribbler. His big issue is composure in front of goal and even without it I think Pep will stick by him. He won't start every game but no one not named Ederson, KDB or Dias will.
 

K Stand Knut

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I disagree, Pep loves him, he's probably one of his favorite players at the club along with Gundogan. He's already said he believes the goals will come and he doesn't judge Jesus on only goals anyway because of everything else he adds. He constantly makes space for our wingers to play, he's got a great touch, is a good strong dribbler. His big issue is composure in front of goal and even without it I think Pep will stick by him. He won't start every game but no one not named Ederson, KDB or Dias will.
And that is what forums are for BUT I think Pep might have a different opinion on Jesus if his misses or 'lack' of goals was having an effect on any title challenge.

In recent years, for example, where you have not been so strong defensively, goals from your number 1 striker would have been vital. If your defence this season has been sensational so it isn't quite as telling.

Jesus is a more willing Martial. Runs around a lot and gets goals at city but I genuinely don't think he'd be anywhere near as useful for other teams.
 

padr81

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And that is what forums are for BUT I think Pep might have a different opinion on Jesus if his misses or 'lack' of goals was having an effect on any title challenge.

In recent years, for example, where you have not been so strong defensively, goals from your number 1 striker would have been vital. If your defence this season has been sensational so it isn't quite as telling.

Jesus is a more willing Martial. Runs around a lot and gets goals at city but I genuinely don't think he'd be anywhere near as useful for other teams.
Jesus will contribute 15 or so league goals a season I think if he's first choice and thats probably more than enough if we have our wingers and attacking mid contributing another 65-70. He'll never be prime Aguero or nearly as good a finisher but I think Pep is fine with that. Kinda like Liverpool Pep now see's our wingers as his goalscorers, hence the issues with Sterling this season. I think the idea at City has changed from 1 player bagging 20-30 to having 4 or 5 players bagging around 15. Jesus will always be a goal every 2-3 games styled player because of the role he plays. I actually think he'd do quite well at an Everton as the main CF and would match someone like DCL etc..
 

Ladron de redcafe

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And... When Mendy got crocked, Pep didn't sign a replacement LB. He decided to co-opt two midfielders (Delph and Zinchenko) to play at LB instead.

So much for the "oh he just buys until it succeeds theory"
Yeah, boggles the mind that Delph was part of a 100 point team.
 

Chief123

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Name his flop defenders.
Mendy and Stones alone cost £100m. Stones has half a season where he’s been decent (mostly due to Dias presence). Are we just going to forget he’s been awful for the 3 years previous? There’s nothing to say Stones will continue this purple patch yet.
Danilo was underwhelming and got shipped out. Angelino another one that failed at city.
It was clear even before city signed him that Ake was never going to be a top level defender.

Outside of defenders, Bravo was a shocking judgment and signing by Pep. Right now Torres is looking bang average too.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Mendy and Stones alone cost £100m. Stones has half a season where he’s been decent (mostly due to Dias presence). Are we just going to forget he’s been awful for the 3 years previous? There’s nothing to say Stones will continue this purple patch yet.
Danilo was underwhelming and got shipped out. Angelino another one that failed at city.
It was clear even before city signed him that Ake was never going to be a top level defender.

Outside of defenders, Bravo was a shocking judgment and signing by Pep. Right now Torres is looking bang average too.
Pep wanted Ter Stegan who was Barcelona's cup goalkeeper when Pep approached Barcelona. They insisted that they'd only let their main (liga) goalkeeper go and Soriano and Begerestein wanted to agreed because to it.

Angelina cost next to nothing. Torres and Stones are definitely not flops. You're left with Mendy, and he's a disaster.
 

Chief123

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Pep wanted Ter Stegan who was Barcelona's cup goalkeeper when Pep approached Barcelona. They insisted that they'd only let their main (liga) goalkeeper go and Soriano and Begerestein wanted to agreed because to it.

Angelina cost next to nothing. Torres and Stones are definitely not flops. You're left with Mendy, and he's a disaster.
Gotta love how Stones has been playing for only 3 and half months and was behind Ake in the pecking order and now he’s suddenly “definitely not a flop”. Gotta love how fickle fans are. Nearly every city fan would have admitted he was a flop before coming back into the team. The fact he cost £50m was putting him up there as one of the worst prem signings ever due to his cost. Yes he’s looked decent for the last 3 months but like I said Dias is a huge factor towards that. Even Phil Jones has had spells with Utd where he’s looked a world beater.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Gotta love how Stones has been playing for only 3 and half months and was behind Ake in the pecking order and now he’s suddenly “definitely not a flop”. Gotta love how fickle fans are. Nearly every city fan would have admitted he was a flop before coming back into the team. The fact he cost £50m was putting him up there as one of the worst prem signings ever due to his cost. Yes he’s looked decent for the last 3 months but like I said Dias is a huge factor towards that. Even Phil Jones has had spells with Utd where he’s looked a world beater.
Comparing Stones to Phil Jones and saying that Stones is one of the worst premier league signings is so asinine that it must be a piss take.
At no point in his United career was Phil Jones in the running for best defender in the league for an entire season.
 

dbs235

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City have so many players elevated by Peps system. They would be found out at other clubs.

Pep is a fraud.
So players are elevated due to Pep's coaching and tactics, reaching a level they wouldn't be able to at other clubs, so that means Pep is a fraud? :lol:
 

Chief123

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Comparing Stones to Phil Jones and saying that Stones is one of the worst premier league signings is so asinine that it must be a piss take.
At no point in his United career was Phil Jones in the running for best defender in the league for an entire season.
So before December, was Stones a success or a flop? Amazing short term memories.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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So before December, was Stones a success or a flop? Amazing short term memories.
Why do some football fans sound hysterical? It doesn't have to be one extreme or another. Stones was alright. He could have been better. He could have been worse. But he certainly wasn't a flop by any stretch of the imagination. It would have been silly to call him a flop in December, and it's sillier now.

Nothing, though, is as silly as comparing him to Phil Jones and calling him one of the worst buys in premiership history.
 

Chief123

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Why do some football fans sound hysterical? It doesn't have to be one extreme or another. Stones was alright. He could have been better. He could have been worse. But he certainly wasn't a flop by any stretch of the imagination. It would have been silly to call him a flop in December, and it's sillier now.

Nothing, though, is as silly as comparing him to Phil Jones and calling him one of the worst buys in premiership history.
You clearly missed the point with the Jones statement.
 

padr81

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Mendy and Stones alone cost £100m. Stones has half a season where he’s been decent (mostly due to Dias presence). Are we just going to forget he’s been awful for the 3 years previous? There’s nothing to say Stones will continue this purple patch yet.
Danilo was underwhelming and got shipped out. Angelino another one that failed at city.
It was clear even before city signed him that Ake was never going to be a top level defender.

Outside of defenders, Bravo was a shocking judgment and signing by Pep. Right now Torres is looking bang average too.
Stones was fantastic till his injury in our 100 point season, and was better than Otamendi who got in team of the season, he missed the 2nd half of the season through injury.. Then he had 2 terrible years but calling him a flop is rubbish given he's repeated that form after sorting out his personal problems. Bravo did perfectly fine as a backup keeper after a poor first season but in the grand scheme of things I'll give you this one.
Danilo was fine and bought as a rotation option, the club were happy to keep him, he wasn't shipped out, he asked to leave and after his preferred transfer fell apart he was used in the deal to bring in his replacement, so thats nonsense.
Angelino was bought back purely to fill a homegrown spot in our squad as he was hg at our club, nothing more nothing less. Served his purpose, he was never gonna be first team.
Ake has been injured.

The nonsense spouted about Torres and Ake during their first seasons is the same rubbish I read about Bernardo in his first season, Cancelo last season etc.. Fabinho for his first season at Liverpool etc...
For a bang average footballer he's outscored someone like Martial so far this season, scored more goals against Germany than Martial has entire international goals and cost less than half the price after Martials addons are factored in. You clearly haven't watched the kid if you think he's bang average.

Putting two rotation options who served their purpose just fine and 2 players who are still settling in into the flops category shows how stuck you are... You have Mendy, Bravo if we're counting keepers and the jury is out on Stones but this run of form is not a first for him.