Goals conceded - 21/22 season

bond19821982

Last Man Standing champion 2019/20
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
10,433
Location
Nnc
A thread to analyze our goals conceded for the current season. This will help to analyze how many mistakes are we making, how many goals are being conceded etc.

I will be updating it after every match.

EPL

Leeds home: Ayling wonder goal.
Southampton Away : deflection goal.
Newcastle home :
-Maguire jumping early for tackling Almiron
-Varane going for the tackle of SMX and misses, Manquilo became free and scores.
Westham away :
Be Benrahma - deflection.
Shaw mistake (handball) for the cross and Penalty (no goal)

CL
Young Boys away:
-Shaw defended very narrow for the cross despite playing 3 CBs
-Lingard mistake.


All suggestions to make this better, are welcome. Expecting cooperation from everyone.
 
Last edited:

Desert Eagle

Punjabi Dude
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
17,327
I'd have them in three categories:

A) Unavoidable : Ayling, deflection

B) Avoidable : Newcastle goal, First young boys goal

C) Calamity: Lingard assist

Would be a bit tricky with stuff like Shaw's handball. I think it's somewhere between B and C .
 

NICanRed

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
268
Iirc Shaw's handball didn't result in a goal. (Thanks DDG!)
 

bond19821982

Last Man Standing champion 2019/20
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
10,433
Location
Nnc
I'd have them in three categories:

A) Unavoidable : Ayling, deflection

B) Avoidable : Newcastle goal, First young boys goal

C) Calamity: Lingard assist

Would be a bit tricky with stuff like Shaw's handball. I think it's somewhere between B and C .
Both B and C are avoidable and are defensive mistakes. Maguire shouldn't have lunged, Varane shouldn't have gone for the tackle, Shaw shouldn't have expanded his posture as big as that. These are some basic things .
 

Redlyn

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
3,683
Feck it, how did I miss it. Corrected, thanks!
If Shaw's non-goal is kept here, what about an even worse mistake like AWB getting himself sent off and costing us the match?

I reckon you should keep it strictly goals conceded like the thread title (and maybe red cards). If a mistake led to nothing then we can let it go (Shaw).
 

Robaldo

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 25, 2015
Messages
349
The goal scored by Newcastle was frustratingly avoidable in every way. The midfield and full backs were painfully easy to transition against and Maguire committed very early; he does tend to be quite successful when committing early but it didn't pay off.
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
34,063
Current top PL 10 in terms of xG allowed:

1) Man City
2) Brentford
3) Villa
4) Liverpool
5) Chelsea
6) United
7) West Ham
8) Wolves
9) Palace
10) Everton

Apparently we had conceded more counter attacks than anyone else going into this weekend (6 per 90min), so I would imagine that's where a lot of the general threat against us is coming from....

Any idea how many of actual the goals we conceded were from counter attacks?
 

Mihai

Full Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
4,621
Current top PL 10 in terms of xG allowed:

1) Man City
2) Brentford
3) Villa
4) Liverpool
5) Chelsea
6) United
7) West Ham
8) Wolves
9) Palace
10) Everton

Apparently we had conceded more counter attacks than anyone else going into this weekend (6 per 90min), so I would imagine that's where a lot of the general threat against us is coming from....

Any idea how many of actual the goals we conceded were from counter attacks?
I think only Newcastle was counter attack.
 

SAFMUTD

New Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
11,787
I'd have them in three categories:

A) Unavoidable : Ayling, deflection

B) Avoidable : Newcastle goal, First young boys goal

C) Calamity: Lingard assist

Would be a bit tricky with stuff like Shaw's handball. I think it's somewhere between B and C .
Deflections are very much avoidable, for once don't give so much space to opposition. Both goals came from their striker having acres of space to make the shot resulting on a deflection from our player. If pressed closely that deflection is more unlikely to go on goal or De Gea have more time to adjust and save it. When it happens mid way is practically impossible for the keeper to react.
 

bond19821982

Last Man Standing champion 2019/20
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
10,433
Location
Nnc
Deflections are very much avoidable, for once don't give so much space to opposition. Both goals came from their striker having acres of space to make the shot resulting on a deflection from our player. If pressed closely that deflection is more unlikely to go on goal or De Gea have more time to adjust and save it. When it happens mid way is practically impossible for the keeper to react.
Exactly. The space and time Benrahma got to hit that was embarrassing. Both Fred and Scott went behind the ball and they were out of position.
 

Lentwood

Full Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
6,864
Location
West Didsbury, Manchester
I would analyse the goals we conceded as below -;

Leeds : Ayling - nothing you can really do about this. Some might argue we could have closed him down quicker, but actually in that scenario, a full back who hasn't scored a league goal in over a season, shooting from 25/30 yards...I'd be quite happy to forgive our defenders for just letting him shoot. Considering all outcomes of how that attack might play out, it's probably the one that results in a chance/goal the fewest number of times.

Southampton : Che Adams - first of all, it was 100% a foul on Fernandes, and I won't change my mind on that. There's 'strong play' and then there's taking the man first, which is what happened here. Once that had happened, we reacted poorly. Fernandes spends too much time on the floor complaining in general, just get back up and try and affect play. Fred and Maguire really don't commit to blocking the shot properly, although again, in this scenario, I can understand WHY they are somewhat casual because I genuinely think you could run that scenario again 100 times and Adams wouldn't score. Once the ball deflects off Fred, it lands in literally the one, single inch of the goal that De Gea can't reach. I would say could we have done more? Well, you can analyse ANY goal and argue that. Likewise, definitely as a coach, you want players to take responsibility and not blame 'bad luck'. However, I am happy to label that one a 'fluke'. We'll get onto how a deflected goal can be a fluke and bad defending at the same time in a minute!

Newcastle : Manquilo - For me, we didn't concede against Newcastle because of errors by Maguire and Varane really, they were forced into making split-second decisions, which went against them, because we lost our shape in midfield. The ball was able to progress through our midfield and present Newcastle with an overload far too easily, although there was a slight element of luck about it. Maguire makes the decision to try and win the ball before Newcastle can break, and doesn't. Varane then thinks he can nick it from the Newcastle forward, but he's too sharp and manages to offload to Manquilo, who finishes well. In my opinion, this is a goal that can happen to teams that need to force attacking overloads, and is why I prefer the two-man midfield, as opposed to playing Pogba and Fernandes together.

West Ham : Benrahma - In my opinion, this is an example of a goal that can be lucky and bad defending at the same time. Even in real-time, I was thinking, 'we look too casual here', when Snodgrass picked up the ball in an attacking position. A couple of our midfielders were wandering around doing nothing really, the defence had got itself slightly disorganised. When the ball goes into Fornals, Shaw and Pogba must realise that if they press aggressively here, Fornals can only go backwards. They don't, so that enables Fornals to turn and slide a pass into Coufal. Somehow, Maguire has been dragged into the LB position by Bowen, and Fred is in the LCB position. Fred follows Coufal, who leaves it Bowen, now running infield. Maguire is out the game, Fred is out the game, and Varane works left to cover. Pogba, as usual, is just trotting about watching. McTominay is TOO eager to get involved, and abandons the key area in-front of the penalty area to close Bowen, who isn't really going anywhere at this point, or threatening our goal. The ball works it's way to Benrahma, McT and Fred have abandoned the space, Maguire and Varane are scrambling, Pogba didn't do much at all, Shaw was too casual in realising the danger...all that being said, the shot was harmless until it hit Varane.
 

NZT-One

Full Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
2,429
Location
Berlin
A thread to analyze our goals conceded for the current season. This will help to analyze how many mistakes are we making, how many goals are being conceded etc.

I will be updating it after every match.

EPL

Leeds home: Ayling wonder goal.
Southampton Away : deflection goal.
Newcastle home :
-Maguire jumping early for tackling Almiron
-Varane going for the tackle of SMX and misses, Manquilo became free and scores.
Westham away :
Be Benrahma - deflection.
Shaw mistake (handball) for the cross and Penalty (no goal)

CL
Young Boys away:
-Shaw defended very narrow for the cross despite playing 3 CBs
-Lingard mistake.


All suggestions to make this better, are welcome. Expecting cooperation from everyone.
I like the idea, would even participate but for that you have to explain, what you are trying to do in terms of "what should the information help with".

Because I see two potential issues:
a) if we try to analyse how many mistakes we have made, it would be pretty difficult to draw conclusions because we don't know that information for other teams. Therefor, you might end up with a pile of data, that doesn't really result in much.

b) if you want to have another angle to analyse our defenders I think it would be pretty harsh. Because if we only look at the goals and decide if they are "legit" or "someone fecked up" there is no chance at all that our players can come out not looking bad. To create better possibilities for conclusions, it would be needed to count and "process" all events relevant to defending - so of course goals conceded but also great blocks, great safes, great goal-line clearances. Otherwise the endresult will always be disappointing, only unknown would be the extend.

Same would go if you only analyse the goals scored, it will always make your attackers look good because you are not measuring the times, they fecked something up. I am not sure I think, that issue might be the survivor bias from data analysis theory.

I would also suggest, to use this thread for discussion but gathering the information in some sort of google sheet. I really like the idea, I also wanted to create some sort of data base "measuring" the extent of deserving-ness :D may be can combine it.
 
Last edited: