Grassroots Football

[Pughnichi]

Anyone out there either working or volunteering at a grassroots club.

curious to learn opinions on streaming - with higher ability players in the ‘elite’ team and lower ability players making up the weaker team.

invariably with streaming if a team folds, it’s the weaker team who lose regularly and both players/manager lose enjoyment. This then raises difficult questions from parents - ie ‘ the club isn’t interested in lower ability and only concentrated on the better teams’

Streaming is necessary to a degree so players are challenged but is there any suggestions how to do so fairly ensuring that all teams are competitive.

the local leagues must take some responsibility because they’re structured for streaming and regularly put teams in the wrong league which helps nobody.

 

[André Dominguez]

Is it just me or anyone else finding hard to understand some of the context? For me streaming is broadcasting a match over IP, but I'm not a native speaker.

Abut the last point: it's near to impossible to keep the local leagues level up: the whole idea of grassroots is to form players. The first stages of the season on most youth competitions are usually composed by some deadwood games until it reaches the final stages.

 

[Champ]

Are you referring to having an 'A' and a 'B' team for example, or to put it easier, a first team and reserve team?

I am nvolved in coaching both in a youth capacity as well as an adult capacity, the Youth team i coach is a 'mixed ability' team, which started off great, but now that team (under 11's) are beginning to play competitive football this has become an issue, as the divide in the team in so vast - the strongest players we have are in various pre-academies, some at premiership level, whereby we have two players whose technique is no where near developed enough to pass a ball over 5 yards.

Currently the club is against having an 'elite' team for the reasons that they want it to be all inclusive, the issue I have with this is the enjoyment levels of the stronger core players is reduced due to having to 'carry' the less strong players.

The Adult team i play for and help coach is now at a level just below semi pro, as we have had to step down a tier, we run a reserve team and a third team. It is always the third team that suffers overall if players are unavailable for the first team, as the reserve players take the step up, meaning the third team players then step up to reserve level etc.
This is how a team should be run in my opinion. The first team should be teh pinnacle and everyone should strive to play at the highest level.

I don't think there is any way of making these tier's fair as such, but our reserves are in one league below us whereas our third team is several tiers below. Eventually the team finds their level no matter whose playing, its just a case of getting to that point.

 

[Thunderhead]

we have teams of the same age U10 1 team is better players they train twice a week and play in a competitive league, the other team is players who are either not good enough or just want to play football without training and have a laugh and play in a mini leauge and will play the top under 8 and under 9 teams every so often, most clubs I've noticed over the last 10 years or so since my kids have gone through are getting more and more competitive and it's turning some of the kids off, I know of at least 1 kid in the under 10 A team who has been asked to go to an academy development squad for a trail wants to drop into the 'B' team as it's looks more fun and his best mate plays there.

 

[Thunderhead]

e run a reserve team and a third team. It is always the third team that suffers overall if players are unavailable for the first team, as the reserve players take the step up, meaning the third team players then step up to reserve level etc.
This is how a team should be run in my opinion. The first team should be teh pinnacle and everyone should strive to play at the highest level.

I don't think there is any way of making these tier's fair as such, but our reserves are in one league below us whereas our third team is several tiers below. Eventually the team finds their level no matter whose playing, its just a case of getting to that point.

not everyone thinks like that, especially kids, lots just want to have fun with their mates, get too serious and it just turns loads off, often see (not sure why) but it's always the U14 teams that fold round here as kids find other things to do as they get sick of training twice a week and the ultra competitiveness of it.

 

[11101]

I think it naturally happens? The players who want to be better end up in the higher level teams, the ones who just enjoy it are happy with the less competitive leagues because they just want to play.

The club I used to play for had 4 teams and i think it worked well. The division 1 team was at semi pro level and had the best players. The second team was in the league below but fully amateur, and anybody who wanted competitive football could join the squad and try to get picked or work their way up to the first team. Then there were two social teams who shared a pool of players, some of whom were also in the second team squad and maybe didn't play regularly. The key was everybody was able to get a game in one of the two pub-style leagues they were in.

Simply put, there were two competitive teams and two social teams. You could be in both social teams to guarantee game time, and if you wanted you also had the option of going into the competitive second team and working your way up.

 

[Champ]

not everyone thinks like that, especially kids, lots just want to have fun with their mates, get too serious and it just turns loads off, often see (not sure why) but it's always the U14 teams that fold round here as kids find other things to do as they get sick of training twice a week and the ultra competitiveness of it.

100% agree with you at kids level, we need as many kids playing football as possible and to do that we need to make it inclusive and fun, thats one of the reasons i got into getting coaching badges and wanted to take on youth training.

The quote highlighted was talking about my adults team, when it comes to adults football that is how it should be run.

However there does come a time when a mixed ability team does have to get split and a tier type system implemented, otherwise you are affecting the development of all players, both the strongest and the still developing.

 

[Thunderhead]

100% agree with you at kids level, we need as many kids playing football as possible and to do that we need to make it inclusive and fun, thats one of the reasons i got into getting coaching badges and wanted to take on youth training.

The quote highlighted was talking about my adults team, when it comes to adults football that is how it should be run.

However there does come a time when a mixed ability team does have to get split and a tier type system implemented, otherwise you are affecting the development of all players, both the strongest and the still developing.

fair enough re Adults but yeah, they split them at 8 up here which is ridiculous, the club IMO are more obsessed with getting kids into PL Development squads than letting them have fun, I also blame clubs on this, shouldn't be academy status for kids under 11, the coaches can go to each area and run coaching from there then pick the strongest, 6 and 7 year olds in academies is just wrong IMO.

I'd say 11 is a good time to split the teams as you're into 7 aside then and probably re-evaluate at 14 when they go to 11 aside.

 

[T00lsh3d]

not everyone thinks like that, especially kids, lots just want to have fun with their mates, get too serious and it just turns loads off, often see (not sure why) but it's always the U14 teams that fold round here as kids find other things to do as they get sick of training twice a week and the ultra competitiveness of it.

This is so true. We’ve had a kid (U12’s) just join our team and he’s unbelievable. Absolutely bags of natural ability, there’s almost nothing I can teach him. He’s been on the books of a current premier league team, but he’s a quiet lad and couldn’t stand the regimented environment. He just wants to play football with his mates

 

[André Dominguez]

not everyone thinks like that, especially kids, lots just want to have fun with their mates, get too serious and it just turns loads off, often see (not sure why) but it's always the U14 teams that fold round here as kids find other things to do as they get sick of training twice a week and the ultra competitiveness of it.

Part of the process: some kids will be competitive machines, but if you don't find a way to entretain them is hard to keep them motivated. I used to be a GK coach and cardio coach for futsal U14 teams, and I always make sure to have different exercises every week, mainly on physical training because they will get bored easily if you do classic routines.

Technical training is easier to motivate them. You can integrate tactical training on technical exercises, if you add some specific goals to the exercise itself.

The most difficult thing is to acknowledge the limited talented pool, which is always a problem if you're training local teams.

 

[Pughnichi]

Part of the process: some kids will be competitive machines, but if you don't find a way to entretain them is hard to keep them motivated. I used to be a GK coach and cardio coach for futsal U14 teams, and I always make sure to have different exercises every week, mainly on physical training because they will get bored easily if you do classic routines.

Technical training is easier to motivate them. You can integrate tactical training on technical exercises, if you add some specific goals to the exercise itself.

The most difficult thing is to acknowledge the limited talented pool, which is always a problem if you're training local teams.

The sessions are delivered by managers who build and create their own sessions. I’m responsible for the entire club - 45 teams from u9 through to open age and another 150 players that make up our Gimme5s U6,7,8s

To stream or not to stream...that is the question.

problems with streaming include but not limited to...

Team managers would have to buy in to the idea that players can/should move up and progress if deemed suitable.

But...what team manager will approach the club to advise their 6 goal a game striker should move up (they won’t want to lose him/her)

Team managers are volunteers so there is an element of appeasing them

If he/she does move up, who comes down? The lowest ability player from the team above. What if he’s a cb and you then have unbalanced squads

what if either of those players want to stay with friends.

what if either of those players car share

what if the parent is also the coach of either team and they are then associated with different teams.

And to add to all that, parents would need to all be aware of the process and all buy into it...which quite frankly, with so many members just isn’t possible.

or to maintain, be flexible and work on a case by case basis.

I do think higher/lower ability teams are necessary to ensure good development of all players. I’m just trying to fathom a good way of doing it that wouldn’t result with low ability teams collapsing

argh. The golden question of grassroots. Does my cake in

 

[André Dominguez]

The sessions are delivered by managers who build and create their own sessions. I’m responsible for the entire club - 45 teams from u9 through to open age and another 150 players that make up our Gimme5s U6,7,8s

To stream or not to stream...that is the question.

problems with streaming include but not limited to...

Team managers would have to buy in to the idea that players can/should move up and progress if deemed suitable.

But...what team manager will approach the club to advise their 6 goal a game striker should move up (they won’t want to lose him/her)

Team managers are volunteers so there is an element of appeasing them

If he/she does move up, who comes down? The lowest ability player from the team above. What if he’s a cb and you then have unbalanced squads

what if either of those players want to stay with friends.

what if either of those players car share

what if the parent is also the coach of either team and they are then associated with different teams.

And to add to all that, parents would need to all be aware of the process and all buy into it...which quite frankly, with so many members just isn’t possible.

or to maintain, be flexible and work on a case by case basis.

I do think higher/lower ability teams are necessary to ensure good development of all players. I’m just trying to fathom a good way of doing it that wouldn’t result with low ability teams collapsing

argh. The golden question of grassroots. Does my cake in

The final decision of streaming should not be up to the manager: The managers are there to help develop youth players, not to serve their own ambitions. That's for professional level only.

Another thing that could help it would be collecting training and game data. Nothing too much detailed needed,, it's just to have something to track the improvements of the kids. That way you could have an implemented system to immediatly assess the kids performance.
We did this in training: I was the U14 GK and fitness coach so we recorded our training sessions to see more details that we could have missed (not for storage, just to take some notes. The videos were deleted after being watched.) This data was shared with the U16 team so they could know, in case of need, what player could fit their needs.

Most of the issues you present are solvable, and it will help if the club spirit is very positive, so kids wont feel anxious of moving to another level.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I’m involved in kids football. I firmly believe streaming is important. There’s nothing worse than having a kid who is way better than his peers in a league where he/she finds it all very easy. It messes up their individual development and the rest of the kids never learn how to pass other than immediately giving it to the good kid. Similarly having a really crap kid in a team where they’re well below the required standard does no good to anyone.

Something which just as important as streaming is making sure each kid’s team is in the right league. Getting thrashed every week or never getting beaten are both scenarios which are terrible for development as footballers.

In my experience the politics of streaming is a bit of a nightmare. Especially when parents are involved in coaching. If at all possible leave all the decisions up to professional coaches, with no skin in the game.

 

[Oranges038]

Not sure about anyone else, but in my experience some leagues actually restrict how player can play above their age grades and teams are split regionally rather than by ability. This puts a stop to young players who are too good for their age group moving up against more challenging opposition. The net effect in the long run is that these players will find it too easy for too long and when they reach an upper age level against better players can't really cut it because they've never really been challenged before. I know people who've taken their kids out of the local club and moved them to better clubs with better training facilities and coaches because of this.

Secondly as mentioned above often times the better players parent is one of the coaches and they will not move the player because of the logistical aspect of it, they also can't move with the player because the team above already has coaches. Who are also their because kids are playing, why would they take in another coach and player that might affect their own childs development.

Thats my experience anyway, might be different in bigger leagues or teams where parents of kids aren't doing all the coaching.