Great games when teams didn't park the bus against Pep's Barcelona!

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
While most teams that played against Guardiola's Barcelona sat deep and parked the bus, there were still were a few brave teams who tried to really take the game to Barcelona, pressing very high with extreme intensity and trying to keep Barcelona from getting into a stable passing rythm. When teams employed high pressing against that Barcelona, the result generally was a fantastic and exciting game full of end-to-end football, but still a Barcelona win at the end nevertheless. Barcelona was really quick in exploiting the high line of the adversary's defense with amazing through balls and also were so fantastic and confident on the ball that they would eventually be able get out of the pressing and settle into the game. That Barcelona team pressed better than anyone else, their pressure without the ball could be really insane and fantastically well coordinated. Their counterpressing was notable too.

One fantastic example of this is the Barcelona 5-1 victory away against Espanyol in December 2010. Espanyol had always been a very tough adversary in at least the four previous seasons, with Barcelona winning only 2 out of 8 games played and both were won with a 1-0 score. The 5-1 was a marvelous football game with Espanyol, coached by Pocchetino, playing a very high line and suffocating pressure on all Barcelona's players. Barcelona finished the first half with 58% of ball possession. Espanyol played some great football, had good quality of their own to sometimes get out of Barcelona's pressing, play from the back and had some great chances. But Barcelona was still brilliant throughout the game overall. In the end, Barcelona's high line and team overall were able to press even more than Espanyol and create far more chances. If Espanyol's pressure was asphixiating, Barcelona's managed to be even more than that. Barcelona's quality on the ball was ultimately too great to stop and they also played a more direct game than usual and with more long passes than usual with great sucess. Espanyol's high line was constantly vulnerable to amazing through balls or balls over the top of it.


Barcelona 3-1 Villarreal in November 2010 is also another fantastic example. Very, very high technical level. Villarreal was great, pressed much, created great chances and was fearless against Barcelona. I think that Daniel Alves said after the match that no team before had truly went to attack Barcelona at the Camp Nou like Villarreal did. But in the end Barcelona was still clearly superior in all regards during the match and were deserving of the victory. The second Barcelona goal is a pure beauty, a quick free-kick by Xavi passing to Messi and then a fantastic series of Messi and Pedro one-twos before Messi shipped the ball over the goalkeeper.

https://v-s.mobi/fc-barcellona-vs-villareal-full-match-13-11-2010-hd-1:42:59

I also recommend looking for the first half of Arsenal 2-1 Barcelona in 2011, UCL's Round of 16, First leg. Arsenal started the game extremely well, pressing Barcelona very high and creating great chances. But after the first 10 minutes, Barcelona settled in the game and often made Arsenal chase the shadows throughout the rest of the first half, Arsenal hopelessly trying through pressing to take the ball from Barcelona to no avail, while Barcelona's own high line and insane pressing was taking the ball from Arsenal all the time. There were moments in the first half in which Arsenal chased shadows for 1 or 2 straight minutes non-stop! Barcelona's goal in the first half also came from a through ball by Messi that dissected Arsenal's high line after a very quick free kick. In the second half, Barcelona increasingly grew lenient, Arsenal grew and scored two late goals in great lightning fast counter-attacks. Arsenal created many chances in this game in this manner. Overall, a very entertaining match full of end-to-end football and very high technical level.



Mourinho's Madrid attempted this strategy of pressing very high too with varying degrees of sucess in different games. The first half of the 2011 Copa Del Rey final and the extra-time were a sucess. Barcelona couldn't have stable possession and Real was in control. Messi kept dropping deep to get the ball, making him less of an attacking threat, and Barcelona didn't have a shot on target in the whole first half, their passing was unreconizable and very poor.


Another instance was the 3-1 defeat at the Bernabéu against Barcelona in 2011. Real pressed high and like mad men and scored an early goal after Valdés' blunder. Then Barcelona was stifled in the first 30 minutes of the first half, unable to have stable possession and get into their rythm. Guardiola then made many tactical switches, such as Busquets as more of a centre-back, Xavi in Pirlo's role and Puyol as left-back marking CR7. Barcelona suddenly scored their first goal. This, combined with Guardiola's tactical changes, allowed Barcelona to start to have dominance in the game from then on, though CR7 still missed two huge chances that normally he would have scored. Barcelona in the end won the game 3-1 with Real's players' spirit visibly shaken and crushed.


But probably the game in which Real truly outplayed Barcelona when playing very intense high was the second leg of Copa Del Rey quarter-finals. It was a 2-2 draw very unfair to Real. Specially in most of the second half, Real was far superior and created (and wasted) so many clear goal chances. A great Madrid performance. Barcelona had moments of great football, but were sloppy and unfocused in most of the game. Overall, a match of very, very, very high technical level, extremely exciting and fast, intense and one of the best Clásicos of the 2010s! Honestly my favorite Guardiola-Mourinho game, I'm not counting the 5-0 hammering because it was one-sided, though I freaking love the 5-0 and consider Barcelona's performance in it the absolute technical and artistical peak of football!


Probably the team that was more consistently sucessful, though, in truly stifling Barcelona with a very high line was Emery's Valencia, specially when Barcelona played away, at the Mestalla. Barcelona only defeated Valencia once in the Mestalla in the entirety of Guardiola's four seasons. And even then it was a very tough 1-0 with Barcelona having their lowest percentage of possession in the season and only around 75% of pass completion. 75% of pass completion was abysmal for that Barcelona team, they would have at least 85%, generally around 90%, of pass completion in the games. About the games against Valencia at the Camp Nou, more specifically the 3-0 in 2010 and 2-1, also in 2010, had the following script: Barcelona awful in the first half, but rampant and wonderful in the second. In the case of the 2-1 victory, Barcelona lost the first half 1-0 and in the first 30 minutes of the game Valencia achieved the unthinkable: more ball possession than Barcelona!

Still, the general case was that to truly stifle that Barcelona team, the best option was always sitting very deep and look for speedy counter-attacks. But a game between Klopp's Liverpool and Guardiola's Barcelona would be cracking to see. Klopp surely would do what the teams above did, but better: press very high with insane intensity alongside amazing counter-attacks. Still, Barcelona's technical superiority and supreme quality and confidence with the ball would make Barcelona the most likely winner.
 

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
I promise that this will be my last thread for a long time, at least one week.
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,756
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
Wouldn’t a better title have been:

“While most teams that played against Guardiola's Barcelona sat deep and parked the bus, there were still were a few brave teams who tried to really take the game to Barcelona, pressing very high with extreme intensity and trying to keep Barcelona from getting into a stable passing rythm. When teams employed high pressing against that Barcelona, the result generally was a fantastic and exciting game full of end-to-end football, but still a Barcelona win at the end nevertheless. Barcelona was really quick in exploiting the high line of the adversary's defense with amazing through balls and also were so fantastic and confident on the ball that they would eventually be able get out of the pressing and settle into the game. That Barcelona team pressed better than anyone else, their pressure without the ball could be really insane and fantastically well coordinated. Their counterpressing was notable too.

One fantastic example of this is the Barcelona 5-1 victory away against Espanyol in December 2010. Espanyol had always been a very tough adversary in at least the four previous seasons, with Barcelona winning only 2 out of 8 games played and both were won with a 1-0 score. The 5-1 was a marvelous football game with Espanyol, coached by Pocchetino, playing a very high line and suffocating pressure on all Barcelona's players. Barcelona finished the first half with 58% of ball possession. Espanyol played some great football, had good quality of their own to sometimes get out of Barcelona's pressing, play from the back and had some great chances. But Barcelona was still brilliant throughout the game overall. In the end, Barcelona's high line and team overall were able to press even more than Espanyol and create far more chances. If Espanyol's pressure was asphixiating, Barcelona's managed to be even more than that. Barcelona's quality on the ball was ultimately too great to stop and they also played a more direct game than usual and with more long passes than usual with great sucess. Espanyol's high line was constantly vulnerable to amazing through balls or balls over the top of it.


Barcelona 3-1 Villarreal in November 2010 is also another fantastic example. Very, very high technical level. Villarreal was great, pressed much, created great chances and was fearless against Barcelona. I think that Daniel Alves said after the match that no team before had truly went to attack Barcelona at the Camp Nou like Villarreal did. But in the end Barcelona was still clearly superior in all regards during the match and were deserving of the victory. The second Barcelona goal is a pure beauty, a quick free-kick by Xavi passing to Messi and then a fantastic series of Messi and Pedro one-twos before Messi shipped the ball over the goalkeeper.

https://v-s.mobi/fc-barcellona-vs-villareal-full-match-13-11-2010-hd-1:42:59

I also recommend looking for the first half of Arsenal 2-1 Barcelona in 2011, UCL's Round of 16, First leg. Arsenal started the game extremely well, pressing Barcelona very high and creating great chances. But after the first 10 minutes, Barcelona settled in the game and often made Arsenal chase the shadows throughout the rest of the first half, Arsenal hopelessly trying through pressing to take the ball from Barcelona to no avail, while Barcelona's own high line and insane pressing was taking the ball from Arsenal all the time. There were moments in the first half in which Arsenal chased shadows for 1 or 2 straight minutes non-stop! Barcelona's goal in the first half also came from a through ball by Messi that dissected Arsenal's high line after a very quick free kick. In the second half, Barcelona increasingly grew lenient, Arsenal grew and scored two late goals in great lightning fast counter-attacks. Arsenal created many chances in this game in this manner. Overall, a very entertaining match full of end-to-end football and very high technical level.



Mourinho's Madrid attempted this strategy of pressing very high too with varying degrees of sucess in different games. The first half of the 2011 Copa Del Rey final and the extra-time were a sucess. Barcelona couldn't have stable possession and Real was in control. Messi kept dropping deep to get the ball, making him less of an attacking threat, and Barcelona didn't have a shot on target in the whole first half, their passing was unreconizable and very poor.


Another instance was the 3-1 defeat at the Bernabéu against Barcelona in 2011. Real pressed high and like mad men and scored an early goal after Valdés' blunder. Then Barcelona was stifled in the first 30 minutes of the first half, unable to have stable possession and get into their rythm. Guardiola then made many tactical switches, such as Busquets as more of a centre-back, Xavi in Pirlo's role and Puyol as left-back marking CR7. Barcelona suddenly scored their first goal. This, combined with Guardiola's tactical changes, allowed Barcelona to start to have dominance in the game from then on, though CR7 still missed two huge chances that normally he would have scored. Barcelona in the end won the game 3-1 with Real's players' spirit visibly shaken and crushed.


But probably the game in which Real truly outplayed Barcelona when playing very intense high was the second leg of Copa Del Rey quarter-finals. It was a 2-2 draw very unfair to Real. Specially in most of the second half, Real was far superior and created (and wasted) so many clear goal chances. A great Madrid performance. Barcelona had moments of great football, but were sloppy and unfocused in most of the game. Overall, a match of very, very, very high technical level, extremely exciting and fast, intense and one of the best Clásicos of the 2010s! Honestly my favorite Guardiola-Mourinho game, I'm not counting the 5-0 hammering because it was one-sided, though I freaking love the 5-0 and consider Barcelona's performance in it the absolute technical and artistical peak of football!


Probably the team that was more consistently sucessful, though, in truly stifling Barcelona with a very high line was Emery's Valencia, specially when Barcelona played away, at the Mestalla. Barcelona only defeated Valencia once in the Mestalla in the entirety of Guardiola's four seasons. And even then it was a very tough 1-0 with Barcelona having their lowest percentage of possession in the season and only around 75% of pass completion. 75% of pass completion was abysmal for that Barcelona team, they would have at least 85%, generally around 90%, of pass completion in the games. About the games against Valencia at the Camp Nou, more specifically the 3-0 in 2010 and 2-1, also in 2010, had the following script: Barcelona awful in the first half, but rampant and wonderful in the second. In the case of the 2-1 victory, Barcelona lost the first half 1-0 and in the first 30 minutes of the game Valencia achieved the unthinkable: more ball possession than Barcelona!

Still, the general case was that to truly stifle that Barcelona team, the best option was always sitting very deep and look for speedy counter-attacks. But a game between Klopp's Liverpool and Guardiola's Barcelona would be cracking to see. Klopp surely would do what the teams above did, but better: press very high with insane intensity alongside amazing counter-attacks. Still, Barcelona's technical superiority and supreme quality and confidence with the ball would make Barcelona the most likely winner.”
 

Sandikan

aka sex on the beach
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
53,365
Is there not a better placed Barcelona forum for this?
 

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
Wouldn’t a better title have been:

“While most teams that played against Guardiola's Barcelona sat deep and parked the bus, there were still were a few brave teams who tried to really take the game to Barcelona, pressing very high with extreme intensity and trying to keep Barcelona from getting into a stable passing rythm. When teams employed high pressing against that Barcelona, the result generally was a fantastic and exciting game full of end-to-end football, but still a Barcelona win at the end nevertheless. Barcelona was really quick in exploiting the high line of the adversary's defense with amazing through balls and also were so fantastic and confident on the ball that they would eventually be able get out of the pressing and settle into the game. That Barcelona team pressed better than anyone else, their pressure without the ball could be really insane and fantastically well coordinated. Their counterpressing was notable too.

One fantastic example of this is the Barcelona 5-1 victory away against Espanyol in December 2010. Espanyol had always been a very tough adversary in at least the four previous seasons, with Barcelona winning only 2 out of 8 games played and both were won with a 1-0 score. The 5-1 was a marvelous football game with Espanyol, coached by Pocchetino, playing a very high line and suffocating pressure on all Barcelona's players. Barcelona finished the first half with 58% of ball possession. Espanyol played some great football, had good quality of their own to sometimes get out of Barcelona's pressing, play from the back and had some great chances. But Barcelona was still brilliant throughout the game overall. In the end, Barcelona's high line and team overall were able to press even more than Espanyol and create far more chances. If Espanyol's pressure was asphixiating, Barcelona's managed to be even more than that. Barcelona's quality on the ball was ultimately too great to stop and they also played a more direct game than usual and with more long passes than usual with great sucess. Espanyol's high line was constantly vulnerable to amazing through balls or balls over the top of it.


Barcelona 3-1 Villarreal in November 2010 is also another fantastic example. Very, very high technical level. Villarreal was great, pressed much, created great chances and was fearless against Barcelona. I think that Daniel Alves said after the match that no team before had truly went to attack Barcelona at the Camp Nou like Villarreal did. But in the end Barcelona was still clearly superior in all regards during the match and were deserving of the victory. The second Barcelona goal is a pure beauty, a quick free-kick by Xavi passing to Messi and then a fantastic series of Messi and Pedro one-twos before Messi shipped the ball over the goalkeeper.

https://v-s.mobi/fc-barcellona-vs-villareal-full-match-13-11-2010-hd-1:42:59

I also recommend looking for the first half of Arsenal 2-1 Barcelona in 2011, UCL's Round of 16, First leg. Arsenal started the game extremely well, pressing Barcelona very high and creating great chances. But after the first 10 minutes, Barcelona settled in the game and often made Arsenal chase the shadows throughout the rest of the first half, Arsenal hopelessly trying through pressing to take the ball from Barcelona to no avail, while Barcelona's own high line and insane pressing was taking the ball from Arsenal all the time. There were moments in the first half in which Arsenal chased shadows for 1 or 2 straight minutes non-stop! Barcelona's goal in the first half also came from a through ball by Messi that dissected Arsenal's high line after a very quick free kick. In the second half, Barcelona increasingly grew lenient, Arsenal grew and scored two late goals in great lightning fast counter-attacks. Arsenal created many chances in this game in this manner. Overall, a very entertaining match full of end-to-end football and very high technical level.



Mourinho's Madrid attempted this strategy of pressing very high too with varying degrees of sucess in different games. The first half of the 2011 Copa Del Rey final and the extra-time were a sucess. Barcelona couldn't have stable possession and Real was in control. Messi kept dropping deep to get the ball, making him less of an attacking threat, and Barcelona didn't have a shot on target in the whole first half, their passing was unreconizable and very poor.


Another instance was the 3-1 defeat at the Bernabéu against Barcelona in 2011. Real pressed high and like mad men and scored an early goal after Valdés' blunder. Then Barcelona was stifled in the first 30 minutes of the first half, unable to have stable possession and get into their rythm. Guardiola then made many tactical switches, such as Busquets as more of a centre-back, Xavi in Pirlo's role and Puyol as left-back marking CR7. Barcelona suddenly scored their first goal. This, combined with Guardiola's tactical changes, allowed Barcelona to start to have dominance in the game from then on, though CR7 still missed two huge chances that normally he would have scored. Barcelona in the end won the game 3-1 with Real's players' spirit visibly shaken and crushed.


But probably the game in which Real truly outplayed Barcelona when playing very intense high was the second leg of Copa Del Rey quarter-finals. It was a 2-2 draw very unfair to Real. Specially in most of the second half, Real was far superior and created (and wasted) so many clear goal chances. A great Madrid performance. Barcelona had moments of great football, but were sloppy and unfocused in most of the game. Overall, a match of very, very, very high technical level, extremely exciting and fast, intense and one of the best Clásicos of the 2010s! Honestly my favorite Guardiola-Mourinho game, I'm not counting the 5-0 hammering because it was one-sided, though I freaking love the 5-0 and consider Barcelona's performance in it the absolute technical and artistical peak of football!


Probably the team that was more consistently sucessful, though, in truly stifling Barcelona with a very high line was Emery's Valencia, specially when Barcelona played away, at the Mestalla. Barcelona only defeated Valencia once in the Mestalla in the entirety of Guardiola's four seasons. And even then it was a very tough 1-0 with Barcelona having their lowest percentage of possession in the season and only around 75% of pass completion. 75% of pass completion was abysmal for that Barcelona team, they would have at least 85%, generally around 90%, of pass completion in the games. About the games against Valencia at the Camp Nou, more specifically the 3-0 in 2010 and 2-1, also in 2010, had the following script: Barcelona awful in the first half, but rampant and wonderful in the second. In the case of the 2-1 victory, Barcelona lost the first half 1-0 and in the first 30 minutes of the game Valencia achieved the unthinkable: more ball possession than Barcelona!

Still, the general case was that to truly stifle that Barcelona team, the best option was always sitting very deep and look for speedy counter-attacks. But a game between Klopp's Liverpool and Guardiola's Barcelona would be cracking to see. Klopp surely would do what the teams above did, but better: press very high with insane intensity alongside amazing counter-attacks. Still, Barcelona's technical superiority and supreme quality and confidence with the ball would make Barcelona the most likely winner.”
I worked hard to make a normal, short, direct and objective. But your post is funny!

Is there not a better placed Barcelona forum for this?
barcaforum.com is a much more limited and overall not well designed site, both in appearance and functionality of the posts, than redcafe.net. It's a lot less active too and I'm always obssessed to get the opinion about as many people as I can about any subject to have inner peace. But don't worry, this will be my last thread here for a long time. I learned that I went waaaaaaay overkill with the amount of new threads in the last days. I'm always obssessive.
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
22,865
Location
Inside right
@matbezlima do you have any subjects of interest other than Pep or Barcelona? Perhaps your take on the Champions League of the era or other teams or systems?

I hope you continue to post threads here, but perhaps the Barcelona/Pep centric posts are grating a little as, in such quantity, they are better suited to a Barcelona forum.

I think the effort you go to with your posts is commendable, but the subject matter is not going to be well received in such quantity.

Perhaps something for you to consider.

Take care.
 

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
@matbezlima do you have any subjects of interest other than Pep or Barcelona? Perhaps your take on the Champions League of the era or other teams or systems?

I hope you continue to post threads here, but perhaps the Barcelona/Pep centric posts are grating a little as, in such quantity, they are better suited to a Barcelona forum.

I think the effort you go to with your posts is commendable, but the subject matter is not going to be well received in such quantity.

Perhaps something for you to consider.

Take care.
Thanks. You are right. I'm sorry and I apologize. I'll take the advice from now on.
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
22,865
Location
Inside right
Thanks. You are right. I'll take the advice from now on.
:)

Don't be discouraged; just try to widen your horizons a little. Besides, Barcelona and Pep have been thoroughly discussed here in the past, so the topic(s) are not going to be as rewarding as you may feel your write-ups warrant.
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,756
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
I worked hard to make a normal, short, direct and objective. But your post is funny!
I’m just messing with you mate, you put a lot of effort into your posts and go into lots of specifics and details so don’t be disheartened if some people don’t get it.

I’ve enjoyed your threads when I’ve casually scanned through them. Like @Fortitude says, perhaps if you can pick a subject that is more centric to something closer to United you’ll have a more receptive audience.
 

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
I’m just messing with you mate, you put a lot of effort into your posts and go into lots of specifics and details so don’t be disheartened if some people don’t get it.

I’ve enjoyed your threads when I’ve casually scanned through them. Like @Fortitude says, perhaps if you can pick a subject that is more centric to something closer to United you’ll have a more receptive audience.
Thanks! You are right.
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
Hey give the guy a break I say! I would take threads like this with some entertaining football over multiple threads on Pogba etc
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,506
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
:lol: good stuff!

For all the talk about how Pep's teams could/can be got at, very few teams had the cojones to actually try. Fewer succeeded. But either way the match would absolutely not be boring.

I'd like to read some material on Serie A of the 2010s post Inter implosion
 

Redcy

Full Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,614
What’s interesting here is that you say these teams played really well, etc, and yet the first example is Barca mullering someone 5-1. That is not what I consider a “good” game. It’s a team trying to out football one of the best club sides ever and getting shown why you can’t.

now if your post was one example where it worked, maybe with explanation of why United tactics were bad it may come off better. A massive post just bugging up pep/Barca claiming great games when the opposition got battered, meh
 

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
What’s interesting here is that you say these teams played really well, etc, and yet the first example is Barca mullering someone 5-1. That is not what I consider a “good” game. It’s a team trying to out football one of the best club sides ever and getting shown why you can’t.

now if your post was one example where it worked, maybe with explanation of why United tactics were bad it may come off better. A massive post just bugging up pep/Barca claiming great games when the opposition got battered, meh
Espanyol was not really bad in the 5-1, far from it. They were certainly far better than United in the 2011 UCL final, they truly forced Barcelona to play at their highest gear all the time, they fought hard and technically were decent in the game. Barcelona was just THAT good. Also, I posted examples of Barcelona's losses or games that they at least weren't able to impose themselves on at least a good portion of the game, such as the Clásicos against Mourinho's Madrid, most notably the Copa Del Rey loss, or the games against Valencia.

I should probably have mentioned Barcelona's games against Rubin Kazan and Copenhagen in the 2009 /10 and 2010/11 UCL Group Stages though. But I know very little about these matches, so I don't know if they just parked the bus. From what I have watched from the 1-1 draw against Copenhagen away, Copenhaguen didn't park the bus and pressed Barcelona very high like hell and weren't afraid of resorting to constant fouling and even violence to stop Barcelona from ever feeling truly comfortable in the match. Copenhagen's "cojones" in that match were mind-blowing, imagine peak Simeone's Atletico from 2014-2016. I saw some people, though I still have to watch the game too, talk about a 2-2 draw against Almería in the 2009/10 La Liga season in which Almería supposedly not only pressed Barcelona like hell, but they also put two players to man-mark Xavi and Iniesta in the entire match as if there was no tomorrow, hunting them very close in the 90 minutes. Those two players were told by the coach to not do anything but mark Xavi and Iniesta in the entire. And they succeded, Xavi and Iniesta were effecively taken out of the game, trying vainly to get rid of the man-marking and failing. Barcelona's midfield fluency was, consequently, seriously disrupted.
 

Redcy

Full Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,614
Wouldn’t man marking her considered parking the bus. If they were beat 5-1 it just tells me the tactic was wrong. Always reminds of Wenger whinging about teams not allowing arsenal to play.
 

Yagami

Good post resistant
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
13,532
The team i remember never adjusting their game for Barca were Rayo Vallecano under Paco Jemez. They were a really fun team to watch with their relentless pressing.

If i remember correctly, they were the first - and maybe only - team to out-possession Barca during the Pep era, too, which was incredible. I think they lost that game something like 5-0, though!
 

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
The team i remember never adjusting their game for Barca were Rayo Vallecano under Paco Jemez. They were a really fun team to watch with their relentless pressing.

If i remember correctly, they were the first - and maybe only - team to out-possession Barca during the Pep era, too, which was incredible. I think they lost that game something like 5-0, though!
As I said in the OP, at least in the first 30 minutes, Valencia outpossessed Barcelona at the Camp Nou in a Barcelona 2-1 victory in 2010. Emery's Valencia intensely pressed Barcelona high. Barcelona couldn't get into their natural passing rythm, awful in the first half. Valencia finished the first half 1-0. In the words of Guardiola, "we were passed out of the game". Second half was a Barcelona masterclass though.


http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/10/19/barcelona-2-1-valencia-tactics/
 
Last edited:

Ludens the Red

Full Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
17,498
Location
London
Espanyol was not really bad in the 5-1, far from it. They were certainly far better than United in the 2011 UCL final, they truly forced Barcelona to play at their highest gear all the time, they fought hard and technically were decent in the game. Barcelona was just THAT good.
Sly dig? I take back what I said, jog on......
 

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
@matbezlima

Can you do a thread about Serie A in the 90s? Used to love that era.
Maybe someday. I'm a big fan of Sacchi's Milan, but I don't really know that much about 80s and 90s Serie A. But it was probably the strongest league ever, virtually all great players in the world were in Italy. It was almost NBA of football at its peak. And with the limitations in the number of foreign players that each team could have (only three) meant that so many world class players ended up in lesser teams because everyone wanted to play in Italy no matter if even in a mid-table or relegation team, like Bari
 

MrEleson

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
2,533
That Copa Del Rey 2nd leg in 11/12 exemplifies how unlucky Madrid were that season in only winning the league. The match was reminiscent of a typical game of FIFA where one team dominates and creates chance upon chance unable to score; only then for the opposition to get ONE opportunity that results in a goal. If I recall correctly, Dani Alves scored a screamer that game and Messi went on a mazy run to set-up Pedro. The rest of the game was all Madrid but they were so wasteful/unlucky.

Good analysis on the whole though.
 

tenpoless

No 6-pack, just 2Pac
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
16,365
Location
Ole's ipad
Supports
4-4-2 classic
You should write for football news sites and get paid for it. I mean no offense, this is a praise, your posts often look like blog posts and you could get money from this. And if you are good enough to disguise yourself as an ITK on twitter just from showing off your knowledge and claim that you have 'sources' close to the game, you will gain thousands of followers almost instantly. Double that amount every transfer window.

When you have shit ton of followers, you can set up a Patreon for more 'insider' knowledge. Make sure to rub it in everyone's face every time you managed to write 'Done Dealio' before all the other ITKs did even if you actually got it from SportWitness website. The new IndyKaila, that will be you. They laugh at your posts about Barcelona and you laugh back at their bank accounts.
 

hmchan

Full Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2017
Messages
1,429
Location
Hong Kong
I have a different taste though. I like seeing teams park the bus against stronger sides and frustrate the opponents. It's exciting to watch when they clear the attack one after another and the favorites struggle to break them down. You'll never know the scoreline. For end-to-end stuff, the better team usually wins.
 

Nou_Camp99

what would Souness do?
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
10,274
I started reading and you got my interest. What was I expecting? Close ran games where teams beat them or at least grabbed a point?

First match..... Barca 5 Espanyol 1.
 

Redcy

Full Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,614
I started reading and you got my interest. What was I expecting? Close ran games where teams beat them or at least grabbed a point?

First match..... Barca 5 Espanyol 1.
yeah this was me.
 

iHicksy

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
1,849
Not sure why the guy gets made fun of for decent posts. Regardless if he posts them elsewhere too. I find them interesting to read and they're well formatted and have some actual effort put in. Certainly better than another "How good was David Beckham really?" thread.
 

Nickelodeon

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
2,331
While most teams that played against Guardiola's Barcelona sat deep and parked the bus, there were still were a few brave teams who tried to really take the game to Barcelona, pressing very high with extreme intensity and trying to keep Barcelona from getting into a stable passing rythm. When teams employed high pressing against that Barcelona, the result generally was a fantastic and exciting game full of end-to-end football, but still a Barcelona win at the end nevertheless. Barcelona was really quick in exploiting the high line of the adversary's defense with amazing through balls and also were so fantastic and confident on the ball that they would eventually be able get out of the pressing and settle into the game. That Barcelona team pressed better than anyone else, their pressure without the ball could be really insane and fantastically well coordinated. Their counterpressing was notable too.

One fantastic example of this is the Barcelona 5-1 victory away against Espanyol in December 2010. Espanyol had always been a very tough adversary in at least the four previous seasons, with Barcelona winning only 2 out of 8 games played and both were won with a 1-0 score. The 5-1 was a marvelous football game with Espanyol, coached by Pocchetino, playing a very high line and suffocating pressure on all Barcelona's players. Barcelona finished the first half with 58% of ball possession. Espanyol played some great football, had good quality of their own to sometimes get out of Barcelona's pressing, play from the back and had some great chances. But Barcelona was still brilliant throughout the game overall. In the end, Barcelona's high line and team overall were able to press even more than Espanyol and create far more chances. If Espanyol's pressure was asphixiating, Barcelona's managed to be even more than that. Barcelona's quality on the ball was ultimately too great to stop and they also played a more direct game than usual and with more long passes than usual with great sucess. Espanyol's high line was constantly vulnerable to amazing through balls or balls over the top of it.


Barcelona 3-1 Villarreal in November 2010 is also another fantastic example. Very, very high technical level. Villarreal was great, pressed much, created great chances and was fearless against Barcelona. I think that Daniel Alves said after the match that no team before had truly went to attack Barcelona at the Camp Nou like Villarreal did. But in the end Barcelona was still clearly superior in all regards during the match and were deserving of the victory. The second Barcelona goal is a pure beauty, a quick free-kick by Xavi passing to Messi and then a fantastic series of Messi and Pedro one-twos before Messi shipped the ball over the goalkeeper.

https://v-s.mobi/fc-barcellona-vs-villareal-full-match-13-11-2010-hd-1:42:59

I also recommend looking for the first half of Arsenal 2-1 Barcelona in 2011, UCL's Round of 16, First leg. Arsenal started the game extremely well, pressing Barcelona very high and creating great chances. But after the first 10 minutes, Barcelona settled in the game and often made Arsenal chase the shadows throughout the rest of the first half, Arsenal hopelessly trying through pressing to take the ball from Barcelona to no avail, while Barcelona's own high line and insane pressing was taking the ball from Arsenal all the time. There were moments in the first half in which Arsenal chased shadows for 1 or 2 straight minutes non-stop! Barcelona's goal in the first half also came from a through ball by Messi that dissected Arsenal's high line after a very quick free kick. In the second half, Barcelona increasingly grew lenient, Arsenal grew and scored two late goals in great lightning fast counter-attacks. Arsenal created many chances in this game in this manner. Overall, a very entertaining match full of end-to-end football and very high technical level.



Mourinho's Madrid attempted this strategy of pressing very high too with varying degrees of sucess in different games. The first half of the 2011 Copa Del Rey final and the extra-time were a sucess. Barcelona couldn't have stable possession and Real was in control. Messi kept dropping deep to get the ball, making him less of an attacking threat, and Barcelona didn't have a shot on target in the whole first half, their passing was unreconizable and very poor.


Another instance was the 3-1 defeat at the Bernabéu against Barcelona in 2011. Real pressed high and like mad men and scored an early goal after Valdés' blunder. Then Barcelona was stifled in the first 30 minutes of the first half, unable to have stable possession and get into their rythm. Guardiola then made many tactical switches, such as Busquets as more of a centre-back, Xavi in Pirlo's role and Puyol as left-back marking CR7. Barcelona suddenly scored their first goal. This, combined with Guardiola's tactical changes, allowed Barcelona to start to have dominance in the game from then on, though CR7 still missed two huge chances that normally he would have scored. Barcelona in the end won the game 3-1 with Real's players' spirit visibly shaken and crushed.


But probably the game in which Real truly outplayed Barcelona when playing very intense high was the second leg of Copa Del Rey quarter-finals. It was a 2-2 draw very unfair to Real. Specially in most of the second half, Real was far superior and created (and wasted) so many clear goal chances. A great Madrid performance. Barcelona had moments of great football, but were sloppy and unfocused in most of the game. Overall, a match of very, very, very high technical level, extremely exciting and fast, intense and one of the best Clásicos of the 2010s! Honestly my favorite Guardiola-Mourinho game, I'm not counting the 5-0 hammering because it was one-sided, though I freaking love the 5-0 and consider Barcelona's performance in it the absolute technical and artistical peak of football!


Probably the team that was more consistently sucessful, though, in truly stifling Barcelona with a very high line was Emery's Valencia, specially when Barcelona played away, at the Mestalla. Barcelona only defeated Valencia once in the Mestalla in the entirety of Guardiola's four seasons. And even then it was a very tough 1-0 with Barcelona having their lowest percentage of possession in the season and only around 75% of pass completion. 75% of pass completion was abysmal for that Barcelona team, they would have at least 85%, generally around 90%, of pass completion in the games. About the games against Valencia at the Camp Nou, more specifically the 3-0 in 2010 and 2-1, also in 2010, had the following script: Barcelona awful in the first half, but rampant and wonderful in the second. In the case of the 2-1 victory, Barcelona lost the first half 1-0 and in the first 30 minutes of the game Valencia achieved the unthinkable: more ball possession than Barcelona!

Still, the general case was that to truly stifle that Barcelona team, the best option was always sitting very deep and look for speedy counter-attacks. But a game between Klopp's Liverpool and Guardiola's Barcelona would be cracking to see. Klopp surely would do what the teams above did, but better: press very high with insane intensity alongside amazing counter-attacks. Still, Barcelona's technical superiority and supreme quality and confidence with the ball would make Barcelona the most likely winner.
Kudos on the effort buddy. I, for one, enjoy the detailed analysis that has usually gone in your threads. I have never really watched the La Liga in to much detail except for the big games and have usually just caught highlights or scanned through the table.

I do feel that at an overall career level, Pep has usually blitzed through the league campaigns. His toughest battles would actually have to come down with Klopp in the PL because that is the only time I feel that City are actually afraid of the opposition. In other defeats (especially against us), I feel that City actually have a decent grip on the game but are stifled rather than being completely outplayed.

Are there similar examples during his Barca time where he was completely outplayed by another team/manager?
 

Hoof the ball

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
12,326
Location
San Antonio, Texas.
Maybe someday. I'm a big fan of Sacchi's Milan, but I don't really know that much about 80s and 90s Serie A. But it was probably the strongest league ever, virtually all great players in the world were in Italy. It was almost NBA of football at its peak. And with the limitations in the number of foreign players that each team could have (only three) meant that so many world class players ended up in lesser teams because everyone wanted to play in Italy no matter if even in a mid-table or relegation team, like Bari
I remember Van Basten's comments about Sacchi. Something along the lines of, "we won in spite of Sacchi".
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
22,865
Location
Inside right
@matbezlima if you will indulge: why did Pep's Barcelona perform so badly in away games.

That could be a topic for you to break down in an analytical fashion.
 

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
@matbezlima if you will indulge: why did Pep's Barcelona perform so badly in away games.

That could be a topic for you to break down in an analytical fashion.
There's not really a single reason for this. It varies from game to game. For example, in the away games against Lyon in 2009 and Stuttgart in 2010, Barcelona played badly. Both games were the first legs of Round of 16, in February. And Guardiola's Barcelona always had a slump in February in all their seasons. Barcelona destroyed Lyon 5-2 and Stuttgart 4-0 in the Camp Nou in the second legs though. In 2009, Barcelona played the first leg against Bayern in the Camp Nou and won 4-0, so they didn't really need a to win the second leg and played at second gear, drawing 1-1. The 2-2 draw against Arsenal in 2010 and the 2-1 loss against Arsenal in 2011 were, though, great Barcelona performances in which they were superior and often brilliant for most of the game, specially in 2-2 draw. Barcelona's first half against Arsenal in the 2-2 draw was ridiculous. But in both games grew lenient in the second half and Arsenal had late comebacks after being 2-0 and 1-0 behind in those games, respectively.
 

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
I remember Van Basten's comments about Sacchi. Something along the lines of, "we won in spite of Sacchi".
Van Basten is saying bullshit with this, Sacchi built that Milan and made them work fantastic as a team and reach their greatest heights while improving on the high line and pressing from Holland 1974. But his perfectionism and intensity of play style meant that Milan was quite uneven in Serie A and in his last season players had grown tired of the philosophy, authoritarism, and his perfectionism, it was mentally and physically exhausting. Gullit said in Sacchi's last season that all the players weren't having fun and joy playing football anymore. All of this is quite similar to why Guardiola doesn't coach the same club for more than four or five years.
 

matbezlima

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
388
Nah, I was joking. No worse than comparing us to Steau Bucharest and Stoke in the other thread :lol:
Steaua from the 80s was a good team. Really. But Milan make them look even worse than United against Barcelona in 2011, it was ridiculous the gulf in the game. I highly recommend watching the 1989 UCL final, truly a masterclass and probably Sacchi's Milan best performance. This game left everyone in awe at how fantastic Milan was and journals were praising them next day with things like: "what we saw was a team of extraterrestrials".

https://footballia.net/matches/ac-milan-steaua-bucure-ti