Green_Smiley VS Joga Bonito- All time 3 year peak - Auction Draft

Who would win based on players in their 3 yr peak?

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Skizzo

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Tactics

Assuming opponent plays 4-2-3-1/4-3-3

Defensive Play
  • Rikjaard to stay close to Cryuff, limiting his time and space on the ball
  • Di Stefano to watch out for opponent's LCM going forward
  • Gerson to watch out for opponent's RCM going forward. Also supports Brehme in defense
  • Littbarski against Nilton Santos' attack
  • Müller to move in front of Nasazzi and Scirea when they bring the ball forward. He will attempt to win back the ball from the 2 centre-halves
  • Zanetti defends against Rivaldo. He is comfortable to track Rivaldo that tends to drift from left to centre
  • Brehme defends the left flank, especially against Conti. He is able to match Conti's speed
  • Charles against opponent's striker

  • Moore to lead and organize defense at the back, anticipate and sniff out any danger. He will act as sweeper to "sweep up" the ball if opponent manages to breach the defensive line, supporting his defensive teammates
  • Dzajic - since Bossis is not an attacking full-back, he will wait at the halfway line, either at the left or drifting towards centre, waiting for opportunity to counter (see "Counter-Attacking Play")
Attacking play
  • Zanetti is given licence to move forward when there is chance. He can choose to run-and-cross, cut-in from the right, or make quick one-two passes with Littbarski
  • Brehme has a more withdrawn role as compared to Zanetti, to ensure there are at least 3 defenders to defend against any quick counter. He will still support Dzajic from behind and provide crosses into the box
  • Rijkaard to move the ball forward when there is space in front, starting an attack or even score goal by himself. His passing range is also not to be underestimated
  • Gerson pulling the strings from deep midfield, supplying wide-range of passes to any attacking player. He is excellent at controlling the tempo of the game to ensure his team does not get stuck to opponent's rhythm. He does not succumb to pressure and will always find his teammate to pass the ball to when being closed down
  • Di Stefano orchestrating attacking play, constantly creating space for himself and teammates to score with his fantastic work rate, technique, vision and skills
  • Littbarski, being constantly labelled as showboating, but is actually very mobile attacking player that will thrive in quick link-up with Di Stefano and Zanetti. Apart from his well-known speed and dribbling skill, he constantly looks for space to exploit, either drifts from right to centre, or to the right far post inside opponent's penalty area, ready to score
  • Dzajic, another fast and skillful winger. Can cut-in, can cross, can beat his markers with insane dribbling skill. Similar to Littbarski, he doesn't limit himself to hugging the left wing, and will also drift towards centre or to the left far post inside opponent's penalty area, ready to score. On few occassion, Dzajic will also switch wing with Littbarski, creating confusion among opponent's defense
  • Müller, greatest striker of all-time, with his fantastic movement inside the box, lethal acceleration over short distances, remarkable aerial game, and uncanny goal-scoring instincts. He will punish the opposition when given the slightest chance to score. He can also set up his teammates to score when defenders are around him
Set Pieces
  • Free-kick away from goal: Gerson
  • Free-kick close to goal: Dzajic
  • Corner kick: Littbarski or Dzajic, with target man of Müller or Charles for header; or Gerson with a thunderous shot from outside the box
Counter-Attacking Play
This involves quick, precise pass from Gerson or Moore to the attacker(s) waiting up-front


Dzajic will stay up-front most of the time, looking for opportunity to counter. He will move towards centre at the halfway line, so that he has options to go left, right or centre. This depends on where the space is in front of him. At times when Nilton Santos and Rivaldo are committed to attack upfront, Dzajic can move to the space on his right. Müller, who stays close to the opponent's centre halves, will join the attack, drawing the defenders to him and thus creating space for Dzajic to move forward. Littbarski with his explosive pace, will drive forward from deep too

vs


EDIT: Substitution made for Joga...Varela in for Keane

Key Tactical Changes

Change to a fluid 4-3-3
The team's had a make over and is now operating in a free flowing 4-3-3. Cruyff will be in his element as the false #9 in a formation and system, which he is extremely familiar with. Whilst the team takes inspiration from the Dutch 70s vintage, it isn't strictly based on it or rigidly modelled after it.

The change provides the ideal platform for an all-round team, where every single one of the players are talented in various aspects of the game, with none of them being limited specialists. It provides them with the perfect platform to maximise the 'roaming' potential of several of my players and also to exhibit their technical abilities.


Addition of Johann the second and Der Panzer
The inseparable Johanns are reunited once more. They were quite the double act, having terrorised the Dutch league with Ajax, winning three European Cups on the trot and tearing apart the WC, apart from the ill fated final, and winning the Golden Ball and Silver Boot - they were the cornerstones of the Dutch and Ajax dominance of the early 70s.

Arguably one of the most complete box to box midfielder's in the history of the game, Neeskens simply had everything, you'd want from a midfielder. The heart and soul of the Dutch and Ajax team of the 70s, Neeskens was simply an indomitable and irrepressible presence on the pitch. What truly made him such a fearsome behemoth on the field, was the fact that he could marry his 'kamikaze pilot' like physical aggressiveness with sheer technical ingenuity and unrivalled tactical innovation. A true connoisseur of totaalvoetbal.

His tireless running and ferocious tackling enabled him to break up opposition attacks, but when play swirled towards the other end, he would be there again, slipping through intelligent passes and often finding the net himself. If Cruyff represented the artistry of Rinus Michels' legendary sides, it was Neeskens who symbolised their unyielding vigour and unrelenting passion. As Sjaak Swart aptly claimed, “in midfield, Neeskens could play for two”.

The lord of all cnuts, Loddar was your perfect midfielder and he had it all in his locker... Ok, I've run out of superlatives for box to box midfielders :annoyed:, so I will leave you all with this

 
Last edited:

Skizzo

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JOGA WRITE UP CONT:

Defensive Line : Normal-Slightly pushed up


DEFENSE
Scirea, one of the greatest liberos of all time, will kick off things from the back, being frequently involved in the build up phase and advancing forward to facilitate play or beef up the midfield when required. Nasazzi reprises his role as the covering CB who will primarily have his eye on the opposition's centre-forward. The Grand Marshal is in a class of his own when it comes to match-winning performances from the unlikely centre-back position - after all he won the Golden Ball in the 1930 WC and Player Of The Tournament in two separate Copa Americas.

The greatest left wing-back of all time (alongside Facchetti), N.Santos has full freedom to bomb forward and contribute to the attack, with his mazy runs and quality crossing. His class, in combination with his tactical nous made him a force to be reckoned with on the entire left flank. Two time French Player Of The Year, Bossis plays as the supporting RWB who will be making runs forward, but to a lesser extent than N.Santos.

MIDFIELD DYNAMICS
First of all, Keane is not playing as the holding midfielder. Rather, he is playing as a defensive box to box midfielder here, or perhaps the term supporting B2B in a flat midfield trio would be more apt. Playing with three B2Bs in a flat midfield trio, is not an unprecedented move by any means and there have been several teams who have employed them, esp in the seventies with the Dutch and the Germans being firm purveyors of that strategy.

The Mühren-Neeskens-Haan trio for Ajax, van Hanegem-Neeskens-Jansen trio for Holland, in addition to Germany and Bayern frequently utilising this particular midfield set-up. Ideally in these formations there was one midfielder who was more defensive and played a more supporting role, relatively, to help facilitate the more expansive style of his midfield companions - Haan and Jansen for example. It didn't mean they were restrained or stifled and they still could venture up front whenever they saw it fit - due to the immense industry and tactical nous of their fellow midfielders. For instance, Haan topscored alongside Cruyff in their 72/73 European Campaign for Ajax, where they won their 3rd successive European Cup.

On paper it might make more sense to go with Varela instead of Keane but it wouldn't bring forth the fluidity and cohesiveness, that I want from my midfield unit as a whole. Having a static holding anchor will significantly alter the midfield dynamics, as opposed to a supporting all-round B2B midifielder, and force Neeskens and Matthäus into more defined, and thereby constraining and even conflicting tactical roles. Not that Varela is a limited player by any means but it would force the two of them to play as 'just attacking B2Bs' or 'just wide B2Bs' and wouldn't make full use of their all-round B2B games, which made them the beasts they were. Besides, with a deep playmaker or a holding anchor, Neeskens and Matthäus would have a clash of styles with both asked to play a similar role of sorts, which wouldn't be the case in this fluid midfield set-up with Keane.

Say, if I had two attacking B2Bs who weren't the most intelligent tactically or were overly attacking etc in the mould of Gerrard/Toure/Ballack, then Varela would have been the right tactical option. In this particular set-up, Keane is the ideal choice to make this midfield work imo.

Another key point would be how the dynamic forward line helps accentuate the midfielders goalscoring game. With Law and Rivaldo constantly on the move, probing and looking for openings and roaming about (more vertically for Law and diagonally for Rivaldo) in addition to Cruyff dropping deep to dictate play, there will always be space for the midfielders to exploit and run onto to fully maximise their goalscoring potential.

Matthäus - Der Panzer does what he does best - steamrolling through midfields, dominating the midfield battle, playing defense splitting passes, tracking back to help out the defense, letting loose a few goal-bound rockets every now and then, relentlessly harrying the opposition etc. He has full freedom to do what he does best, with 2 monstrous and fluid midfielders for company, significantly giving him more roomto work with. Whilst he will look to boss the middle, he can support the left flank/channels whenever necessary, both defensively - keeping an eye on Zannetti's forays forward - and offensively. It works well with Rivaldo roaming and probing the channels and flanks, allowing Loddar to bomb forward into space and likewise with Cruyff dropping deep and creating space as well.











Keane - Plays as the supporting B2B, looking to hold the fort and going forward when he deems fit - his usual role in all fairness. Keane will naturally, be the more economical midfielder out of the trio, with his passing and will pick his moments to venture forward and he has two physical beasts in Neeskens and Matthäus, who are more than capable of covering for him or linking up with him as per the situation. Keano is arguably the most important tactical component of this midfield, as his metronomic passing and link-up play helps gel the midfield unit together and his all-round game gives my midfield another dimension and enables Matthäus and Neeskens to play together, as opposed to a static holding midfielder



Neeskens - Plays as the RCM, a role in which he is well-versed in as he has played the same role in the 1978 WC and also has experience of playing as a RB for Ajax. He will have the license to drift onto the right hand channels/flanks as was his inclination at times and also bomb forward to link up with Cruyff or get onto the end of things. Yet another midfielder who was equally brilliant defensively as he was offensively with great tactical nous.

A sample of the Mühren-Neeskens-Haan flat midfield trio in action for Ajax in the European Cup Final 1973 for those interested.




 
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Skizzo

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JOGA WRITE UP CONT...AGAIN.

OFFENSE
Certain forward trios tend to feature three central forwards, who end up fighting for the same central area on the pitch and would actually be better off playing with wingers or wide players. It couldn't be further from the truth here. Cruyff was an extremely rapid and mobile false 9 who loved dropping deep and hardly functioned as your traditional spear-heading centre forward. He was tactically astute, extremely two footed and had fantastic vision, qualities which he allied with searing pace and dribbling skills, meaning he was dangerous on just about anywhere on the pitch - be it when dropping deep and dictating play or onto either flank and delivering a telling ball/cross.


Creativity


Goals


Dribbling


This naturally gave more freedom and room for his fellow inside forwards to thrive in and at least one of them loved running into the recently vacated space by Cruyff (mostly Law in this case). Cruyff has excelled in various front trios as the false 9 with 2 inside forwards for company. Keizer-Cruyff-Rep for Ajax, Resenbrink-Cruyff-Rep for Holland and Rexach-Cruyff-Sotil for Barca. Ideally a creative, direct and technical inside left and a goalscoring and incisive inside right. It is a fluid set-up in which I expect Cruyff to thrive in.

Rivaldo is perfect as the inside left in the sense that he had various facets to his game - being both a goalscorer and provider in equal measure. He was equally deadly at cutting in and scoring a goal, going out wide to provide a peach of a cross and linking-up with his fellow forwards. A multi-faceted roaming forward who'd flourish, with N.Santos taking away most of the wingsmanship burden and providing him with the choice to be what he wants. It is extremely hard to define Rivaldo to a particular role as he is such a unique player, but I'd say he functioned best as a roaming forward, when he had the freedom to probe along the channels and the central areas - exactly what he has here.

Law is playing as the incisive goalscoring inside right in this set-up. Enough of shoehorning Law into set-ups with him being stranded up top as a limited poacher. Law was clearly much much more than that and it's about time he was allowed to exhibit his Ballon d'Or winning talents for once. Contrary to popular belief, Law mostly played as an inside left/right for United with Herd or Sadler being the traditional centre-forward in the 60s. Inside left/right was his primary position and he only filled in as a traditional spear-heading centre-forward at times due to injuries or suspensions. Paints his goalscoring record in a whole new light doesn't it?

Law loved dropping deep and getting in the thick of things. His main assets were his link-up ability and his effervescent play which meant that despite being involved in the build up play, he was always on the end of things when the play reached the box. His timing of runs and ability to be in the right place at the right time were simply phenomenal to say the least. He was ubiquitous on the pitch and loved getting stuck in and contributing to the defensive phase of the game. Rarely did he ever stay up the pitch, waiting for the ball to come to him but rather looked to actively involve himself in the proceedings. Law's athleticism, industry and dynamic game bodes well and provides a nice balance when not in possession, with Rivaldo being more phlegmatic in his game-play, off the ball.

I'd recommend you to read this write-up which goes into depth about his complete game-play and also a montage of gifs of his match performances.

As stated earlier, the forward line is full of goals, pace and is brimming with creativity but most importantly dynamism - an essential trait which manages to maximise the impact of the midfield's penchant for explosive goalscoring runs forward. Matthäus averaged 4 goals in the victorious 1990 WC campaign and was capable of a 1 in 2 average. Neeskens won the Silver Boot in WC 1974 scoring a remarkable 5 goals and had a notable goalscoring record. So whilst the midfield is capable of dominating the midfield and being providers whilst the forward line being goalscorers, their roles can easily be reversed, which is the beauty of this team. Be it a pile-driver from Neeskens/Matthäus, a solo goal by any of the forwards, a glorious cross by Santos/Rivaldo/Cruyff onto the head of the salmon-like Law, Neeskens/Matthäus getting on the end of things after an unstoppable run into the box or least of all, a sumptuous chip from Cruyff from outside the box - it will be near impossible to stem all avenues to the goal

Other Points
Green_Smiley has an impressive core with di Stefano at the helm but I'd say my solid midfield is set-up to deal with them to a certain extent. The main concern in the match for me, is curbing the wing supply to Müller. As it stands, Green_Smiley has imposing flanks with Zannetti-Littbarski and Brehme-Dzajic.

Whilst I'd back Santos to have a handle on Littbarski, Zannetti's forays will not go unchecked with Matthäus having a keen eye on that. Having the defensive Rijkaard on his zone, with Law capable of dropping back into midfield when not in possession and Keane-Neeskens capable of holding their own as a duo, allows Matthäus more freedom to execute this move, without leaving the midfield under manned. It would also be dangerous to make it a 2v1 on Santos as Rivaldo is always capable of dropping into the vacated space by Zannetti, creating a dangerous out-ball for a ruthless counter-attack with the immense ball-winning capabilities of my team.

On the other flank Dzajic is up against Bossis and Law is capable of tracking back Brehme if need be.







The team also has rapid counter-attacking potential with the explosive players and dribblers such as Law, Cruyff, Santos, Neeskens and Matthäus with plenty of brilliant passers all over the pitch - right from Dasayev's swift throws to Cruyff's piercing defense-splitters.
 
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Skizzo

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@Joga Bonito @green_smiley

Here you go. Hope that's alright...you both had ridiculously long posts so i hope its all there.

GS..some of your gifs showed up int he PM, and some didn't. None are in there currently as i couldnt see what was where with the formatting that came through. Just an FYI if you want to post them again.... Because this thread really does need more gifs.
 

Skizzo

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@Damien or other mod, can you please add the Poll.

Who would win based on players in their 3 yr peak?
Green Smiley
Joga Bonito

make votes visible
change votes available
votes visible without voting

I think is the usual options. Thanks.
 

green_smiley

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****Resend tactics with GIFS****

Tactics

Assuming opponent plays 4-2-3-1/4-3-3

Defensive Play
  • Rikjaard to stay close to Cryuff, limiting his time and space on the ball
  • Di Stefano to watch out for opponent's LCM going forward
  • Gerson to watch out for opponent's RCM going forward. Also supports Brehme in defense

  • Littbarski against Nilton Santos' attack

  • Müller to move in front of Nasazzi and Scirea when they bring the ball forward. He will attempt to win back the ball from the 2 centre-halves

  • Zanetti defends against Rivaldo. He is comfortable to track Rivaldo that tends to drift from left to centre

  • Brehme defends the left flank, especially against Conti. He is able to match Conti's speed

  • Charles against opponent's striker

  • Moore to lead and organize defense at the back, anticipate and sniff out any danger. He will act as sweeper to "sweep up" the ball if opponent manages to breach the defensive line, supporting his defensive teammates

  • Dzajic - since Bossis is not an attacking full-back, he will wait at the halfway line, either at the left or drifting towards centre, waiting for opportunity to counter (see "Counter-Attacking Play")
 

green_smiley

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Attacking play
  • Zanetti is given licence to move forward when there is chance. He can choose to run-and-cross, cut-in from the right, or make quick one-two passes with Littbarski

  • Brehme has a more withdrawn role as compared to Zanetti, to ensure there are at least 3 defenders to defend against any quick counter. He will still support Dzajic from behind and provide crosses into the box

  • Rijkaard to move the ball forward when there is space in front, starting an attack or even score goal by himself. His passing range is also not to be underestimated

  • Gerson pulling the strings from deep midfield, supplying wide-range of passes to any attacking player. He is excellent at controlling the tempo of the game to ensure his team does not get stuck to opponent's rhythm. He does not succumb to pressure and will always find his teammate to pass the ball to when being closed down

  • Di Stefano orchestrating attacking play, constantly creating space for himself and teammates to score with his fantastic work rate, technique, vision and skills


  • Littbarski, being constantly labelled as showboating, but is actually very mobile attacking player that will thrive in quick link-up with Di Stefano and Zanetti. Apart from his well-known speed and dribbling skill, he constantly looks for space to exploit, either drifts from right to centre, or to the right far post inside opponent's penalty area, ready to score

  • Dzajic, another fast and skillful winger. Can cut-in, can cross, can beat his markers with insane dribbling skill. Similar to Littbarski, he doesn't limit himself to hugging the left wing, and will also drift towards centre or to the left far post inside opponent's penalty area, ready to score. On few occassion, Dzajic will also switch wing with Littbarski, creating confusion among opponent's defense

  • Müller, greatest striker of all-time, with his fantastic movement inside the box, lethal acceleration over short distances, remarkable aerial game, and uncanny goal-scoring instincts. He will punish the opposition when given the slightest chance to score. He can also set up his teammates to score when defenders are around him
 

green_smiley

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Set Pieces
  • Free-kick away from goal: Gerson
  • Free-kick close to goal: Dzajic
  • Corner kick: Littbarski or Dzajic, with target man of Müller or Charles for header; or Gerson with a thunderous shot from outside the box
Counter-Attacking Play
This involves quick, precise pass from Gerson or Moore to the attacker(s) waiting up-front
Dzajic will stay up-front most of the time, looking for opportunity to counter. He will move towards centre at the halfway line, so that he has options to go left, right or centre. This depends on where the space is in front of him. At times when Nilton Santos and Rivaldo are committed to attack upfront, Dzajic can move to the space on his right. Müller, who stays close to the opponent's centre halves, will join the attack, drawing the defenders to him and thus creating space for Dzajic to move forward. Littbarski with his explosive pace, will drive forward from deep too
 

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Player's Profile

Peter Shilton (1978-1980) - England/Nottingham Forest

Major Honours
  • First Division: 1977–78
  • European Cup: 1978–79, 1979-1980
  • European Super Cup: 1979
  • First Division PFA Team of the Year: 1977–78, 1978–79, 1979-1980
  • PFA Players' Player of the Year: 1977–78
Peter Taylor (former Asst. Manager of Nottingham Forest): "Shilton wins you matches".
Forest conceded just 24 goals in 42 games to win league title in 1977/78

Javier Zanetti (2001-2003) - Italy/Inter Milan

Ryan Giggs: "The most difficult opponent to play against was Javier Zanetti"

Esteban Cambiasso: "Zanetti? Just one word, PERFECT"

Andreas Brehme (1988-1990) - Germany/Inter Milan

Major Honours
  • Serie A: 1988–89
  • Supercoppa Italiana: 1989
  • FIFA World Cup: 1990
  • Guerin d'Oro (Serie A Footballer of the Year): 1989
  • FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1990
  • Ballon d'Or – Third place: 1990
Bobby Moore (1966-1968) - England/West Ham United

Major Honours
  • FIFA World Cup: 1966
  • UEFA Euro (Bronze Medalist): 1968
  • FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1966
  • 1966 FIFA World Cup Best Defender, European Defender of The Year
  • UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament: 1968
Pele: "He was my friend as well as the greatest defender I ever played against"

John Charles (1950-1952) - Wales/Leeds United


Sir Bobby Robson: "Where was he in the world's pecking order? He was right up there with the very, very best - Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Di Stefano, Best. But how many of them were world-class in two positions? The answer to that is easy - none"
Frank Rijkaard (1988-1990) - Netherlands/AC Milan

Major Honours
  • Supercoppa Italiana: 1988
  • European Cup: 1988–89, 1989–90
  • European Super Cup: 1989, 1990
  • UEFA European Championship: 1988
  • Ballon d'Or – Third place: 1988, 1989
  • 1988 European Championship Team Of Tournament
Gerson (1968-1970) - Brazil/Botafogo & Sao Paulo

Major Honours
  • FIFA World Cup: 1970
  • Taça Brasil: 1968
  • 1970 FIFA World Cup Best Midfielder
Alfredo Di Stefano (1957-1959) - Spain/Real Madrid

Major Honours
  • Primera División: 1957, 1958
  • European Cup: 1956–57, 1957–58, 1958–59
  • Pichichi Trophy: 1957, 1958, 1959
  • Ballon d'Or: 1957, 1959
  • European Cup Top Scorer: 1958 (10 goals)
  • Spanish Player of The Year: 1957, 1959
Pele: "People argue between Pele or Maradona. Di Stéfano is the best, much more complete"
Pierre Littbarski (1981-1983) - Germany/FC Koln

Major Honours
  • DFB-Pokal: 1982–83
  • German Cup: 1983
  • FIFA World Cup Runner-up: 1982
  • 1982 FIFA World Cup Top Assister (5 assists)
Dragan Dzajic (1968-1970) - Yugoslavia/Red Star Belgrade

Major Honours
  • Yugoslav First League: 1967–68, 1968–69, 1969–70
  • Yugoslav Cup: 1967–68, 1969–70
  • UEFA European Championship (Runners-Up): 1968
  • UEFA Euro Player of the Tournament: 1968
  • UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament: 1968
  • Ballon d'Or (3rd place): 1968
Pele: "Dzajic is the Balkan miracle – a real wizard. I'm just sorry he's not Brazilian because I've never seen such a natural footballer"

Gerd Muller (1972-1974) - Germany/Bayern Munich


Major Honours
  • Bundesliga: 1971–72, 1972–73, 1973–74
  • European Cup: 1973–74
  • FIFA World Cup: 1974
  • European Championship: 1972
  • Bundesliga top scorer: 1972, 1973, 1974
  • European Golden Shoe: 1972
  • UEFA European Championship top scorer: 1972
  • UEFA European Championship Teams of the Tournament: 1972
  • European Cup top scorer: 1973, 1974
Franz Beckenbauer: "His pace was incredible. In training I have played against him and I never had a chance."
 

antohan

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I really don't like what you've done to your midfield @Joga Bonito. I really like all three individually but putting them together is overkill. I don't particularly like Matthäus being on the left, or Keane in the centre as some sort of holding midfielder. Neeskens is fine but you simply didn't need that trio at all. Something off with your defence as well, and your front three... It just looks to me as a bunch of great players chucked together into an XI but when I try to think how it will play out it's all confusion and the expectaation that their brilliance will make it work.

Then I look at @green_smiley and, FM-like set piece instructions aside (:lol:), I can see exactly how it works. I like the back three, the players and their balance. I love the midfield trio, Gerson deserved to have an outing in the right setup (finally!). And the front three are beautifully put together as well. Can't fault it, wouldn't mind seeing that team in a final as it is. Yours? Nah, looks a bit of a mess TBH, relying on the notion of winning the midfield battle and then the three frontmen doing something special.

It's a team sport, I would put my quid on the well-balanced team with clear relevant roles and players fitting those roles.
 

antohan

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GIF alert!

Chaps, seriously, even if you spoiler them they kill the loading on phones.
 

Šjor Bepo

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gif attack! :houllier:
love both teams at first glance, will read(and watch all the gifs :scared) all the write ups tommorow and decide....
 

antohan

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Skizzo said:
@Damien or other mod, can you please add the Poll.

Who would win based on players in their 3 yr peak?
Green Smiley
Joga Bonito

make votes visible
change votes available
votes visible without voting

I think is the usual options. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Damobot is slacking, sleeping on his most/least helpful mod confusion laurels.

@Rado_N is the new robomod in RC Town.
 

green_smiley

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At work now, so will reply more later

I am not sure if putting Law on the right is the best for him. If I had the time, I would have studied Joga's team more thoroughly. But I have spent too much time looking at my own team, studying as many games as I could. Monti is not been played so I need to adjust my tactics later if necessary

I don't think Matthaus on the left is of much issue. It is not like he is playing wide left, plus he is world-class midfielder and should be able to fill his role there well
 

Joga Bonito

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antohan said:
Something off with your defence as well
Click to expand...
Could you expand further?

antohan said:
It just looks to me as a bunch of great players chucked together into an XI but when I try to think how it will play out it's all confusion and the expectaation that their brilliance will make it work.
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Don't think that's the case myself. Keizer-Cruyff-Rep would be a similar example with Rivaldo being the talented inside left who roams around the forward line functioning as both a goalscorer and creator with Cruyff being the false 9 who drops deep and dictates play and Law being the dynamic incisive inside right who makes runs from deep and also contributes heavily to the defensive side of the game off the ball. Think it's pretty cohesive myself.

antohan said:
when I try to think how it will play out it's all confusion and the expectaation that their brilliance will make it work.
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It isn't the most simplest and straight-forward of systems or strategies but I do think it will work here. It is a long write-up but maybe you should give it a glance.

antohan said:
relying on the notion of winning the midfield battle and then the three frontmen doing something special.
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Couldn't be further from the case here, as it isn't a static system with midfielders just focusing on the midfield battle and the front three just stranded up top as your traditional forwards. It's more fluid than usual and that is exactly what I expect from this set-up. Like I've said, it does take a bit of inspiration (doesn't fully follow it though) from the Dutch 70s vintage.
 

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I studied few games of Gerson in WC 1970, and I like his game play very much. He has similarity with Carrick whom I admire a lot. The biggest asset of Gerson, apart from his vision and passing, is his intelligence and tactical awareness, both in defend and attack. He knows when to commit, when to get behind his teammates while they are attacking or defending. He is not the type of player that wins the game by scruff of the neck, but he will shift up his gears when required. He can tackle (seriously) and can pull off a short sprint towards opponent's box to score. I imagine Neeskens will be all over Gerson, but Gerson won't panic and will spread the ball around to his teammates and still able to dictate play from almost anywhere on the pitch
 

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I am not sure why you are pushing that point so much - the defensive side is well taken care of in that midfield as it is.
 

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Rightfully, Joga is wary of my strength in width, judging by his tactics for Matthaus to keep close eye on Zanetti, forcing Matthaus to position himself more to the left. I think this will more or less reduce his attacking threat as compared to him when he plays more centrally

It is not that straightforward as what antohan has written, because his team is still capable of adjusting according to game play:
Santos vs. Littbarski
Matthaus vs Zanetti
Bossis vs Dzajic
Law vs Brehme

I would argue that it is dangerous to have only 1 CB keeping Muller in check. Both of antohan's CB need to keep close eyes on Muller, who is able to position himself in great scoring position every time and is a nuisance upfront

I imagine Neeskens will have to be wary of Gerson. He couldn't let Gerson dictating the tempo of the game, whom if given too much space will spell trouble to antohan's side. Keane vs. Di Stefano, with Law supporting Keane in defense? Probably, but what about Brehme? Law cannot be at 2 places at the same time

Cryuff on the pitch will somewhat reduce Rijkaard attacking play, but Rijkaard is the perfect player to curb Cryuff's threat, whom will be all over the place

I also want to emphasize that Littbarksi and Dzajic are not traditional wingers that hug the sidelines. They are capable of moving into any space in front of them, creating and scoring goals. They can stretch the play, or they can overload the centre, making them unpredictable during attack
 
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Joga Bonito

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green_smiley said:
judging by his tactics for Matthaus to keep close eye on Zanetti, forcing Matthaus to position himself more to the left. I think this will more or less reduce his attacking threat as compared to him when he plays more centrally
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He is playing centrally as a LCM, he will just be wary of any forays forward by Zanetti off the ball, as Rivaldo isn't the type to do much tracking back. However, Zanetti won't be galloping forward at will and leave Rivaldo unchecked there, which leaves you exposed to a quick counter. Zanetti isn't the reckless type and will time his runs but it also means that Matthäus won't be forever occupying the left flank. It's just something he keeps his eye on and it isn't his primary job.

green_smiley said:
I would argue that it is dangerous to have only 1 CB keeping Muller in check. Both of antohan's CB need to keep close eyes on Muller, who is able to position himself in great scoring position every time and is a nuisance upfront
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Scirea is there and only goes forward with possession in a supporting role as he always did. What my write-up meant was that Nasazzi would be the one primarily dealing with Müller as the stopper, doesn't mean Scirea is completely out of the picture. Anyway the best way to deal with Müller isn't to focus on him but rather the supply line which is exactly what I'm doing here.

green_smiley said:
I imagine Neeskens will have to be wary of Gerson. He couldn't let Gerson dictating the tempo of the game, whom if given too much space will spell trouble to antohan's side.
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I would have it the other way round, Neeskens is more than capable of handling Gerson off the ball but Gerson won't be able to keep up with Neeskens when he has the ball. He simply isn't dynamic or athletic enough to do such a job.

green_smiley said:
Cryuff on the pitch will somewhat reduce Rijkaard attacking play, but Rijkaard is the perfect player to curb Cryuff's threat, whom will be all over the place
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Not really, if Rijkaard is focussed on Cruyff, then who is going to deal with Neeskens and Matthäus's forays forward? Gerson won't be able to do that and your midfield will be overrun. Neither Moore nor Charles are the kind of defenders you'd want stepping into midfield tracking Cruyff, without the ball either, as they simply weren't suited for it. Cruyff is most certainly not going to be curbed here.

Btw, I'm playing against you not antohan :p
 

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Joga Bonito said:
He is playing centrally as a LCM, he will just be wary of any forays forward by Zanetti off the ball, as Rivaldo isn't the type to do much tracking back. However, Zanetti won't be galloping forward at will and leave Rivaldo unchecked there, which leaves you exposed to a quick counter. Zanetti isn't the reckless type and will time his runs but it also means that Matthäus won't be forever occupying the left flank. It's just something he keeps his eye on and it isn't his primary job.
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Not expecting Matthaus to occupy the left flank just to mark Zanetti, just that he needs to be more wary in that area and could not focus solely more towards centre of the field, which is his strength

Zanetti has quick recovery when tracking back similar to Nilton Santos. On top of that, Charles and Moore are still in heart of defense to negate any threat from counter

Joga Bonito said:
Scirea is there and only goes forward with possession in a supporting role as he always did. What my write-up meant was that Nasazzi would be the one primarily dealing with Müller as the stopper, doesn't mean Scirea is completely out of the picture. Anyway the best way to deal with Müller isn't to focus on him but rather the supply line which is exactly what I'm doing here.
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What I meant that you can't have just one of Scirea or Nasazzi to defend against Muller. He will finish off any chance given to him with his quick movement and lethal strike

Will cover my defensive play later
 

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green_smiley said:
Not expecting Matthaus to occupy the left flank just to mark Zanetti, just that he needs to be more wary in that area and could not focus solely more towards centre of the field, which is his strength
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Aye, that is fair enough. Just like Zanetti will be wary of Rivaldo being free whenever he ventures forward so Matthäus's won't be losing much of his effectiveness in the middle.

green_smiley said:
What I meant that you can't have just one of Scirea or Nasazzi to defend against Muller. He will finish off any chance given to him with his quick movement and lethal strike
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Of course, but you aren't exactly going to mark him with 2 defenders either. When in possession, Scirea ventures forward to play a supporting role but when not in possession and mainly in the box, it will be both Scirea and Nasazzi against Müller.
 

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Joga Bonito said:
It isn't the most simplest and straight-forward of systems or strategies but I do think it will work here. It is a long write-up but maybe you should give it a glance.
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I've always said writeups should fit in one PM (of old, I understand the convos these days have no limit?). In any case, 4-5 paragraphs, anything over that and I refuse to read it.

Couldn't be further from the case here, as it isn't a static system with midfielders just focusing on the midfield battle and the front three just stranded up top as your traditional forwards. It's more fluid than usual and that is exactly what I expect from this set-up. Like I've said, it does take a bit of inspiration (doesn't fully follow it though) from the Dutch 70s vintage.
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I do get where the inspiration comes from. Problem is, that Dutch side was terribly confusing as well more often than not, which makes it very difficult to gage how close the players are to being able to pull off such an exacting system.

Keane is no Haan, that much I'm positive about. Matthäus is more like Neeskens, not van Hanegem. Not sold on Rivaldo as Keizer or how he would work alongside Cruyff. I can't for the life of me see how Nasazzi would fit a Dutch side, a poor fit IMO. And Bossis is too good to play weak-link Wim, he will be nowhere near as insanely gung-ho as him and never found out of position ;)
 
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