Had Van Gaal stayed... Would he have fared any worse than this?

[Tomuś]

I know it's a terribly unpopular opinion but I don't think Van Gaal was all bad.

Incredibly boring at times, yes. Loads of home draws that were meant to change under Mourinho (and they did for a short period), yes. Arguing with players (as if it hasn't happened since), yes. Asking players to study things that aren't all pictures and have some letters in them, yes. 'Philosophy' and 'process', yes. Ultra ego (sounds familiar), yes.

BUT

We did have some sort of football identity, system and coherence. He did make Smalling and Blind look incredibly solid partnership for a season, introduced Rashford and got the best out of Martial. Some fringe players were looking decent enough, too.

What we lacked the most was absolute top quality in attacking positions. I think his system demands the forwards to be of the highest order, otherwise every move is finished up the opposition half, rinse and repeat. Needed that something extra to make it unpredictable. Should've also played it more humble and listened to the fans more.

What I know is that I've never seen us playing at Anfield the way we did under him. Total, utter control, almost robot-like plus some wonderful football on display. Before someone calls it coincidence - it's not. Controlling the game because of the right system is not a coincidence. Winning by jammy goals despite being under the cosh for 90 minutes can be called lucky but it was anything but. He had this string of great games (City at home, too) where we looked, the only time since Fergie, like we were going to become a genuinely good team. Great quality and control.

It finished quickly for some reason, some changes in personnel were introduced and perhaps he himself messed it up.

I just think that with him it would've been easier to improve. The system was there, with the right additions it may have worked perhaps. Now it looks a total chaos with no quality whatsoever. I don't even know where to start with. What to improve? The foundations under him were more solid I think. Turning 0-0s into wins is easier (imo) than fixing the mess we see now.

I may be talking out of my bumhole so feel free to point that out, it's just opinion.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Van Gaal had to go. There is no way he could have lasted past that season.

 

[Krovv]

Van Gaal performed worse than this and he was (rightly) sacked. /thread

 

[WensleyMU]

Well we would have had 1 trophy post Fergie and probably no CL football since.

 

[Canagel]

Van Gaal performed worse than this and he was (rightly) sacked. /thread

No he didn't. We've made our worst start in 28 years or whatever it is this season

 

[Panther]

I don't think he'd be doing worse than we are this season but we wouldn't have done as well as we did last season and we most likely wouldn't have won the Europa League under him.

 

[Kag]

Agree, mostly. If Van Gaal were to have stayed on and given the likes of Pogba, Sanchez, Matic and (yes) Lukaku - to the tune of £400 million - he would be performing considerably better than we do now. It's actually inconceivable to argue otherwise. We were never this bad. Or this clueless.

This isn't saying much at all, but Van Gaal has been our best manager since Ferguson by a margin. Mourinho quite comfortably the biggest failure. Primarily due to the outlay, the horrific football, the poisonous atmosphere throughout the club and (ding, ding, ding!) the fecking results.

We wanted to be the better when Van Gaal was in charge. Mourinho has never understood that.

feck it. I liked Van Gaal. That warm feeling remains even though I wanted him out.

 

[2 man midfield]

I don’t think we did have any identity tbh. People say that, but what was our style? If holding onto the ball in a really slow, laboured manner whilst creating a grand total of 0 chances in 90 minutes counts as a style then it was that. But if that’s the case, why do people criticise Jose’s United for not having a style when it’s the exact same?

 

[Skills]

He had to get sacked. Most clubs make more wrong appointments than right ones, it's just that we're too stupid to not move on from them at the right time.

Had we sacked Mourinho in the summer, how would his tenure have looked? It's just that we were too stupid to see what was coming this season, and should've moved on from him this summer.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Although I don't particularly agree with Louis van Gaal's football I believe we would have been shipping less goals. He would promoted more youth players and I would have been more confident of not going behind/losing to the so called lesser teams.

I was sick of how many times LVG harked on about his philosophy but compared to Jose at least he had one and although he was obstinate he firmly believed in it.

 

[11101]

I have always thought LVG was the one manager post Fergie that really did need more time. We were brilliant at times and awful at others, but he had a vision of how he wanted us to play and it's not entirely removed from what other successful clubs are now doing. I would not have minded if we had given him one more season, it would have been interesting to see if he could pull it all together.

 

[sullydnl]

I am struggling to think of a member of our current squad less likely to flourish other Van Gaal's didactic style of play than Pogba.

In response to the general point though, we would be close enough to this awful for it to make no difference. I preferred LVG to Mourinho but LVG earned his sacking.

 

[Antisocial]

Remember he only had a year until retirement anyway, so with our record of selecting successors then we’d likely be in a similar position to now; the likely appointment of Giggs would’ve surely been a departure of styles anyway, though to a better one then Jose is serving-up.

 

[Leftback99]

Yes. He's the main reason the squad is such a mess for me. And people forget how bad it was November - May.

 

[el3mel]

When will "Had Moyes completed his 6 year plan, would we have won the league?" thread come ?

 

[2 man midfield]

Remember he only had a year until retirement anyway, so with our record of selecting successors then we’d likely be in a similar position to now; though the likely appointment of Giggs would’ve surely been a departure of styles anyway.

That was another thing that baffled me. We were supposed to endure 3 years of poor football while Van Gaal trained the players to play his way, all while we groomed Giggs to be his successor. But for what? So Giggs could change our style back again?

 

[vanderpants]

can't be any worse than this season

 

[Minimalist]

I wanted him sacked at the time because ultimately he failed to take us on. His transfers both in and out weren't good enough (going into a season with only Rooney up top was insane) overall and players seemed to be struggling to believe in the methodology (although at least we had one back then) during the second half of 2015/16.

But in hindsight?!!

Of course I'd rather we kept him than this complete wanker. There was still a decent probability if we had done a bit more business, along with a trust in youth coming through, we might have delivered something more consistent. I say this as someone who doesn't expect us to win the league - I just want us to compete (top three).

There is a hell of a lot more I enjoyed back then than I've ever enjoyed under this prick. Better 'top' performances, more likeable bloke and even some of the bad days had an element of humour to them (i.e. Midgetland).

 

[Keeps It tidy]

The problem was not sacking Van Gaal the problem was replacing him with Mourinho. We needed to hire a progressive, attacking manager to add verticalality to Van Gaal's possession play.

 

[Sky1981]

Just because mourinho is shit and you guys wants him out doesn't make lvg or moyes better than they were

They're all shit, which is why they get the boot.

Let's not rewrite history and resort to fanfiction

 

[hobbers]

I don't think we'd be in a worse position right now.

But LVG was still a poor manager to have at the time. All we're talking about is whether our decline is a smooth downward curve (LVG) or a more erratic and spikey downward trending line (Mourinho).

Either way, Ed would still have signed a load of poorly researched big money shitters without any coherent strategy.

 

[EwanI Ted]

The problem was not sacking Van Gaal the problem was replacing him with Mourinho. We needed to hire a progressive, attacking manager to add verticalality to Van Gaal's possession play.

Exactly my feeling. LVG didn’t have it in him to play modern styles like the younger coaches, but coaches like Pep, Emery, Poch, etc would have been able to build on what LVG left. Mourinho couldn’t work with that he found and will leave a squad that will need a major restructure for whoever replaces him.

 

[Judas]

Give him this squad he’d be doing better than Jose is currently, I’ve no doubt in my mind.

 

[Class of 63]

No, nor would we if David Moyes had stayed, but if Ryan Giggs had got the job permanently, almost certainly yes

 

[spwd]

Yes, he was absolute shite, some revisionism on here

 

[RedDevil@84]

Yes. He was horrible. He was rightfully sacked.

 

[Un4givableB]

The problem was not sacking Van Gaal the problem was replacing him with Mourinho. We needed to hire a progressive, attacking manager to add verticalality to Van Gaal's possession play.

This

Moyes and LVG had no business managing us, Mourinho was a logical choice in terms stature (when he leaves us, he still will get a job at an elite club unlike Moyes and LVG) maybe not in style of play.

 

[bucky]

No he didn't. We've made our worst start in 28 years or whatever it is this season

Mourinho's first two seasons were still better than van Gaal's last season.

Give him this squad he’d be doing better than Jose is currently, I’ve no doubt in my mind.

Which is moot point, since you don't know who van Gaal would have bought. There's a good chance those players would have been worse than what Mourinho has brought in.

 

[Foxbatt]

LVG earlier on played good football. Somewhere in between it went dire. I really could not still understand how a Van Gaal team could play like that? A typical LVG team is the one we hammered Spurs. That is how his teams play. Then we started going backwards and slow. I think the players he had was simply not good enough.
With this team he would have done better than what we are doing now for sure.

 

[2 man midfield]

I wanted him sacked at the time because ultimately he failed to take us on. His transfers both in and out weren't good enough (going into a season with only Rooney up top was insane) overall and players seemed to be struggling to believe in the methodology (although at least we had one back then) during the second half of 2015/16.

But in hindsight?!!

Of course I'd rather we kept him than this complete wanker. There was still a decent probability if we had done a bit more business, along with a trust in youth coming through, we might have delivered something more consistent. I say this as someone who doesn't expect us to win the league - I just want us to compete (top three).

There is a hell of a lot more I enjoyed back then than I've ever enjoyed under this prick. Better 'top' performances, more likeable bloke and even some of the bad days had an element of humour to them (i.e. Midgetland).

I think you’re viewing the LVG years with some rose tinted specs if I’m honest. I remember it being a lot more miserable, the only thing we had to cheer the entire two years was an FA cup against a poor team won in extra time and the odd win against Liverpool. I don’t remember anyone seeing the funny side of losing to midget land either. You can’t tell me that there were more positive memories in that than finishing 2nd last year after beating each one of the other top 6, or in winning the Europa league. Even the league cup win was good, in fact his first season in general was good until we started not giving a feck about the league in about April. Ibra was tearing it up and we created plenty of chances, playing some good stuff.

The one thing I would say compares favourably though is that we weren’t cowardly. I don’t remember us setting up defensively against Liverpool for instance, but you know full well we will be playing for a 0-0 on Sunday.

 

[ash_86]

LVG was the one bad dream i wished it never happened. All the backward passing to the keeper , the guy sitting in a corner taking notes was a sorrow sight to watch. We are in heaven comparatively. Thats how bad it was.

 

[waza7111]

Sorry but these hypothetical threads are getting more and more sillier.

Moyes, LVG and Mourinho are in hindsight 3 of the worst managerial appointments we could have made. All 3 managers are just as bad as each other. We need to get the next one right.

 

[Hughie77]

Not the right man, but I did like the way he set us up to keep the ball, but lacked the personnel to play that way, managers come and go, but the players stay, we need a manager that gets best out of what we got or get.

 

[cj_sparky]

LVG had to go. Football was dire, but no worse than Mourinho's dire brand. If anything at least LVG had an idea you could see he wanted to get across to the players, albeit with no real attacking threat. I doubt we would have improved under him.

Paul Ince has said van Gaal set United back 2 years. If anything we should have used his tenure to build from. We needed to appoint another manager whose style was possession based, but with more attacking and quicker intent.

Sad thing is under Mourinho we are playing football that wouldn't have been accepted decades ago at our club. So now we need a fresh approach and someone to unpick all of his negativity.

 

[Maticmaker]

LvG was not all bad I agree, but he was well past his zenith and very much a 'yesterdays man'; however his basic philosophy (whilst you have the ball the opposition can't score) held, if you had talented players all over the pitch that could handle in game management... we didn't!

Unfortunately it may well be that Mourinho is now past his own zenith (treble in Italy) and his philosophy of defending in numbers and hitting on the break, requiring midfielders who can run beyond the forwards, is also becoming outdated, especially when like LvG he hasn't got the personnel he needs to play his way!

The default (attack) position at United is to get it wide and then cut in from the flanks, or try to get to the bye-line and pull it back; neither works now because of packed defences two (closed) lines of four, even if we get it wide we have no one who can cross a) early, and b) accurately, and we have no one breaking from midfield who is prepared to go past the front men, because if they do and fail, the opposition counterattack and slice through our defences like a hot knife through butter (as the saying goes) the player caught out will be crucified.
Herrera is the only one I've seen who has tried this, sometimes you think Pogba will try as he gets as far as the box but then he either lets fly over the bar, or tries some slinky footwork to get himself through the massed ranks of defenders; if he had moved quicker and/or received the ball when he wanted it, then maybe a chance is created, like he did with the help of Sanchez against City last year at the Etihad.

We are still wandering in the wilderness after Fergie and unfortunately it looks like this will continue for the near future.

 

[L1nk]

One thing is for sure, I don't think we'd of signed Pogba and Lukaku, so from this perspective I'm more curious about how we would of spent in the transfer market.

 

[el3mel]

LVG earlier on played good football. Somewhere in between it went dire. I really could not still understand how a Van Gaal team could play like that? A typical LVG team is the one we hammered Spurs. That is how his teams play. Then we started going backwards and slow. I think the players he had was simply not good enough.
With this team he would have done better than what we are doing now for sure.

He played the same brand of football with Netherlands. Even Bayern said his style was boring when they sacked him. LVG best years were up till he left Barca in first stint, after that, and except for one year at Bayern, it was mostly either shite or managing in inferior leagues as Eredivisie.

I actually bet similar threads will be written about Mourinho when the next guy is about to be sacked. When someone stands away from you, your mind starts to remember the positivies only and filters the negatives because you forget them, unless you're Moyes.

Moyes and LVG deserved sacking and Mourinho deserves it now. Not that his sacking is going to change much in the club though, but it should be a first step in overhauling the club, something that should have been done when LVG was sacked but it didn't. Hopefully we don't repeat the same mistake.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

We shouldn't rewrite history based on today....I liked HIM...professional,courteous,old school. But hos football and signings were abysmal.

 

[Kostur]

Yeah, we'd have bought more youth like Schweinsteiger, di Maria or Falcao.

 

[MAME DIOUF 32]

Nope, and neither would Moyes have. The crucial difference is that neither would have been backed like Mourinho. He's a charlatan and a disgrace.