Every midfield would benefit from a Davids, but I do see Verratti as fairly tenacious, gritty, while also able to contribute offensively and hook up with Pep and Gunter. There's probably an aesthetic thing with 3 DMs in Oencha's midfield, and this big space between the defensive set-up and the attack, which probably doesn't scream a cohesive unit, visually at least.
Harms/Joga vs Oaencha - Tactical Draft
- Thread starter Šjor Bepo
- Start date
1. If he builds a team that loses a game 4-3 with a brilliant Netzer who scores 3 goals, job is done I'd say.
2. He doesn't want Alaba and Reuter to support Rosato but Guardiola/Verratti
Indeed, and by my reckoning I'd label Streltsov as selfless based on the entirety of those videos and gifs. Could he have made better decisions in some of those instances? Yes, but all in all I'd label him a fairly selfless player with good decision making skills.
@oneniltothearsenal
Seeing as you requested more footage clips of Elkjaer. Will quote the older posts that I made on this thread.
More on the way
Rationale
First thing we recognized was Elkjaer's all round game and the multi faceted threat that he posed, and how best to fully utilise it.
1) Elkjaer was very much a marauding, ravenous and an explosive forward who played various roles within a match in itself - functioning as the battering ram in the box, holding up the ball and being a pest in general, whilst frequently dropping deep and onto the flanks, creating openings in the process, before making his trademark runs from deep. He had a variety of finishes and moves in his arsenal and our opinion required a varied service and personnel to fully take advantage of the skillset that he possessed.
2) A phenomenal threat from counter attacks too or making runs from deep.
3) During possession he frequently linked up with players, looking to play those one-twos, those quirky one touch passes or went on one of his crazy runs with all those eccentric Elkjaer turns or just blasting forward with defenders bouncing off him
@Chesterlestreet should like this style of presentation
1.00 (Makes a cracking run from deep and should have won a peno)
1.28 (Makes yet another incisve run from deep but finish lets him down)
2.40 (A great run off the ball during possession, should have won a peno again)
8.15 (Drops deep and plays off of Bastrup to take a shot from a deeper position)
@antohan won't like this though
0.18 Makes a great run off the ball off the shoulder of the last defender and scores a poacher-esque goal
2.05 (Positions himself perfectly in the pen box and scores a target man-esque goal from the cross)
2.25 (Very nearly scores a poacher's goal from the rebound)
2.43 (Drags defender out wide and makes a great run down the flanks, opening up space for runners, before putting in a great cross which results in a goal for Lerby (Robson))
7.40 (scores a poachers goal after a great run by Laudrup)
8.20 (burst forward from a deep position to almost score a target man-esque header after a nice cross)
9.22 (scores a fantastic counter-attacking goal that CR7 would be proud from the half line)
10.15 (drops to the right, links up brilliantly, goes past the left back before putting in a pearler of a cross for the sixth goal of the game)
As you can see he takes up a variety of positions, very much being an ubiquitous presence and offers a varied threat - being the focal point, target man inside the box, dropping deep or wide and creating openings, being a destructive force capable of tearing apart defenses with his sheer movement and dribbling or being a more subtle creative or facilitative presence capable of being a provider (via his movement of crossing/link-up play).
Team's Playing Style - Straight off the bat, this was fairly simple, a direct and an explosive style with plenty of dynamism to boot. Plenty of runners, players to link-up with and of course some great wing threat too.
The formation - A 4-3-3 with two wing forwards or creative wide players seemed a bit too reductionist and we didn't want to make Elkjaer too Benzema-ish playing a role too centred towards facilitating other dominant goalscorer(s).
A 3-5-2 made a lot of sense as it would give Elkjaer the room to make those runs and also feed off others if necessary, when he drops deep. Also capitalise on his tendency to drop onto the wings and make those fantastic runs inward. Also fully exploit and take advantage of link-up play.
Will expand on the the playing personnel in the next post
The Playing Personnel
1) Naturally we wanted to surround Elkjaer with extremely direct and technical players who were forward oriented but also offered plenty of movement and creativity, and goalscoring threat to boot.
2) We didn't want to make Elkjaer a Benzema-esque presence but equally so we didn't want to burden him with all the goalscoring burden or the ball carrying burden - had to maintain a fine balance here after all
Blankenberg is fairly self-explanatory for his vision and ability to build up play from the back and utilise Elkjaer's counter-attacking threat and also his hold-up play and aerial threat (Blankenberg frequently used the aerial route for Ajax and it was a notable route to goal for Ajax for instance)
The wing-backs are experts at manning the flanks single-handedly and once again, just like Blankenberg (Ajax) have been utilised in fairly direct and exciting systems. Demyanenko for Lobanovsky's Kiev was a one man flank machine and Kaltz was tour de force for Hamburg and Germany with his marauding runs and bananaflankens, with Hrubesch being at the end of those fantastic crosses. With Robson, Streltsov and Bonhof capable of drifting out wide (with our very own Elkjaer expert at doing that himself) there would be no shortage of wide service for Elkjaer's or Streltsov headers, or Captain Marvel busting a gut to get on the end of one.
Once again the unpredictability of the creator-scorer dynamism only serves to enhance the chaotic and dynamic nature of the set-up and that's precisely the sort of environment that Elkjaer will thrive and wreak havoc in.
Bonhof has expertise playing in set-ups utilising a libero and also has the defensive and tactical acumen, discipline and versatility to go with his directness and long-range threat on the ball.
Robson's role has been questioned here but keep in mind that Robbo was definitely the antithesis of a Gerrard as I've been at pains to emphasise and he was absolutely brilliant at playing those one-twos, taking command over the midfield and providing his forwards with the ideal base to do their thing. Most importantly his ability to provide those penetrative runs and dynamism from deep was critical to utilising Elkjaer's facilitative nature and of course, his long-range passing was key for unlocking defenses with Elkjaer at the end of them. If anything, I see great similarities with Lerby here, a proper midfield general with an eye for goal. Robson-Bonhof is as complete as it comes (without much if any 'tactical baggage') and they should slot in seamlessly into a direct setup such as this.
Now, Deyna was a great playmaker and once again, to fully utilise Elkjaer's runs off the ball you'd definitely need someone to pick them out and we were at pains to pick a fairly dynamic playmaker of a roaming nature, rather than a static #10 like Riquelme or a direct running second striker who'd be at loggerheads with Elkjaer. Esp since, one of our prime objectives was to enhance the dynamism of the side and provide Elkjaer with ammunition but also allow his to return the favour. Deyna was the prime reason for Lato and Szarmach winning the Golden Boot and Silver boots with Deyna being the selfless supplyline for the three-pronged direct attack of Gadocha-Szarmach-Lato. He was excellent at creating chances for direct forwards and brilliant at picking out runs, which Elkjaer and Streltsov would relish.
Also keep in mind that Elkjaer's goalscoring threat has always been the subject of some heated discussions as many don't regard him as a clinical finisher, in the sense that having supporting goalscoring threats without overshadowing his own, were definitely ideal.
Deyna's goalscoring threat was also definite bonus in this regard. Neither of Deyna or Streltsov were pure or dominant goalscorers who could impinge on Elkjaer in this regard.
Now Streltsov was definitely the decision which required the most brainstorming and I've already mentioned this before. I believed him too be too individualistic and taking away too much from Elkjaer as I believed they overlapped significantly. Considered him more of an individualistic runner (more of the Pele/Eusebio mould than a facilitative Bergkamp mould). Now @harms set me straight and those videos are the best thing to exhibit his selfless playing style and how he wasn't exactly a dribbler but more or a creative presence who was an excellent goalscorer in equal measures.
Very much a creative goalscoring reference point for Elkjaer's dynamism and explosiveness. In some ways similar to the relatively more free roaming and dynamic Chislenko/Byshovets feeding and playing off Streltsov.
The one-twos and the high tempo footie between Robson, Elkjaer and Streltsov was one of the prime reasons why we chose him. Streltsov also had the physicality to function as the auxilary spearhead when Elkjaer drops deep and allow him to feed off him, whilst also being capable of playing as a #10 who can play Elkjaer in when he makes those runs. Very much a malleable and a complete presence who can play a great supporting role. Precisely what he did for USSR post his jail-sentence. The pre incarcerated version would have overlapped with Elkjaer and he had too much of the X-factor as you've stated imo (something which I was initially afraid of going overboard too). However, the latter version suits Elkjaer to a tee imo, without infringing on Elkjaer's ability to make those runs or taking away too much from his ball-carrying freedom.
Seeing as you requested more footage clips of Elkjaer. Will quote the older posts that I made on this thread.
More on the way
Rationale
First thing we recognized was Elkjaer's all round game and the multi faceted threat that he posed, and how best to fully utilise it.
1) Elkjaer was very much a marauding, ravenous and an explosive forward who played various roles within a match in itself - functioning as the battering ram in the box, holding up the ball and being a pest in general, whilst frequently dropping deep and onto the flanks, creating openings in the process, before making his trademark runs from deep. He had a variety of finishes and moves in his arsenal and our opinion required a varied service and personnel to fully take advantage of the skillset that he possessed.
2) A phenomenal threat from counter attacks too or making runs from deep.
3) During possession he frequently linked up with players, looking to play those one-twos, those quirky one touch passes or went on one of his crazy runs with all those eccentric Elkjaer turns or just blasting forward with defenders bouncing off him
@Chesterlestreet should like this style of presentation
1.00 (Makes a cracking run from deep and should have won a peno)
1.28 (Makes yet another incisve run from deep but finish lets him down)
2.40 (A great run off the ball during possession, should have won a peno again)
8.15 (Drops deep and plays off of Bastrup to take a shot from a deeper position)
@antohan won't like this though
0.18 Makes a great run off the ball off the shoulder of the last defender and scores a poacher-esque goal
2.05 (Positions himself perfectly in the pen box and scores a target man-esque goal from the cross)
2.25 (Very nearly scores a poacher's goal from the rebound)
2.43 (Drags defender out wide and makes a great run down the flanks, opening up space for runners, before putting in a great cross which results in a goal for Lerby (Robson))
7.40 (scores a poachers goal after a great run by Laudrup)
8.20 (burst forward from a deep position to almost score a target man-esque header after a nice cross)
9.22 (scores a fantastic counter-attacking goal that CR7 would be proud from the half line)
10.15 (drops to the right, links up brilliantly, goes past the left back before putting in a pearler of a cross for the sixth goal of the game)
As you can see he takes up a variety of positions, very much being an ubiquitous presence and offers a varied threat - being the focal point, target man inside the box, dropping deep or wide and creating openings, being a destructive force capable of tearing apart defenses with his sheer movement and dribbling or being a more subtle creative or facilitative presence capable of being a provider (via his movement of crossing/link-up play).
Team's Playing Style - Straight off the bat, this was fairly simple, a direct and an explosive style with plenty of dynamism to boot. Plenty of runners, players to link-up with and of course some great wing threat too.
The formation - A 4-3-3 with two wing forwards or creative wide players seemed a bit too reductionist and we didn't want to make Elkjaer too Benzema-ish playing a role too centred towards facilitating other dominant goalscorer(s).
A 3-5-2 made a lot of sense as it would give Elkjaer the room to make those runs and also feed off others if necessary, when he drops deep. Also capitalise on his tendency to drop onto the wings and make those fantastic runs inward. Also fully exploit and take advantage of link-up play.
Will expand on the the playing personnel in the next post
The Playing Personnel
1) Naturally we wanted to surround Elkjaer with extremely direct and technical players who were forward oriented but also offered plenty of movement and creativity, and goalscoring threat to boot.
2) We didn't want to make Elkjaer a Benzema-esque presence but equally so we didn't want to burden him with all the goalscoring burden or the ball carrying burden - had to maintain a fine balance here after all
Blankenberg is fairly self-explanatory for his vision and ability to build up play from the back and utilise Elkjaer's counter-attacking threat and also his hold-up play and aerial threat (Blankenberg frequently used the aerial route for Ajax and it was a notable route to goal for Ajax for instance)
The wing-backs are experts at manning the flanks single-handedly and once again, just like Blankenberg (Ajax) have been utilised in fairly direct and exciting systems. Demyanenko for Lobanovsky's Kiev was a one man flank machine and Kaltz was tour de force for Hamburg and Germany with his marauding runs and bananaflankens, with Hrubesch being at the end of those fantastic crosses. With Robson, Streltsov and Bonhof capable of drifting out wide (with our very own Elkjaer expert at doing that himself) there would be no shortage of wide service for Elkjaer's or Streltsov headers, or Captain Marvel busting a gut to get on the end of one.
Once again the unpredictability of the creator-scorer dynamism only serves to enhance the chaotic and dynamic nature of the set-up and that's precisely the sort of environment that Elkjaer will thrive and wreak havoc in.
Bonhof has expertise playing in set-ups utilising a libero and also has the defensive and tactical acumen, discipline and versatility to go with his directness and long-range threat on the ball.
Robson's role has been questioned here but keep in mind that Robbo was definitely the antithesis of a Gerrard as I've been at pains to emphasise and he was absolutely brilliant at playing those one-twos, taking command over the midfield and providing his forwards with the ideal base to do their thing. Most importantly his ability to provide those penetrative runs and dynamism from deep was critical to utilising Elkjaer's facilitative nature and of course, his long-range passing was key for unlocking defenses with Elkjaer at the end of them. If anything, I see great similarities with Lerby here, a proper midfield general with an eye for goal. Robson-Bonhof is as complete as it comes (without much if any 'tactical baggage') and they should slot in seamlessly into a direct setup such as this.
Now, Deyna was a great playmaker and once again, to fully utilise Elkjaer's runs off the ball you'd definitely need someone to pick them out and we were at pains to pick a fairly dynamic playmaker of a roaming nature, rather than a static #10 like Riquelme or a direct running second striker who'd be at loggerheads with Elkjaer. Esp since, one of our prime objectives was to enhance the dynamism of the side and provide Elkjaer with ammunition but also allow his to return the favour. Deyna was the prime reason for Lato and Szarmach winning the Golden Boot and Silver boots with Deyna being the selfless supplyline for the three-pronged direct attack of Gadocha-Szarmach-Lato. He was excellent at creating chances for direct forwards and brilliant at picking out runs, which Elkjaer and Streltsov would relish.
Also keep in mind that Elkjaer's goalscoring threat has always been the subject of some heated discussions as many don't regard him as a clinical finisher, in the sense that having supporting goalscoring threats without overshadowing his own, were definitely ideal.
Deyna's goalscoring threat was also definite bonus in this regard. Neither of Deyna or Streltsov were pure or dominant goalscorers who could impinge on Elkjaer in this regard.
Now Streltsov was definitely the decision which required the most brainstorming and I've already mentioned this before. I believed him too be too individualistic and taking away too much from Elkjaer as I believed they overlapped significantly. Considered him more of an individualistic runner (more of the Pele/Eusebio mould than a facilitative Bergkamp mould). Now @harms set me straight and those videos are the best thing to exhibit his selfless playing style and how he wasn't exactly a dribbler but more or a creative presence who was an excellent goalscorer in equal measures.
Very much a creative goalscoring reference point for Elkjaer's dynamism and explosiveness. In some ways similar to the relatively more free roaming and dynamic Chislenko/Byshovets feeding and playing off Streltsov.
The one-twos and the high tempo footie between Robson, Elkjaer and Streltsov was one of the prime reasons why we chose him. Streltsov also had the physicality to function as the auxilary spearhead when Elkjaer drops deep and allow him to feed off him, whilst also being capable of playing as a #10 who can play Elkjaer in when he makes those runs. Very much a malleable and a complete presence who can play a great supporting role. Precisely what he did for USSR post his jail-sentence. The pre incarcerated version would have overlapped with Elkjaer and he had too much of the X-factor as you've stated imo (something which I was initially afraid of going overboard too). However, the latter version suits Elkjaer to a tee imo, without infringing on Elkjaer's ability to make those runs or taking away too much from his ball-carrying freedom.
1. If the team doesn't defend well/is unable to get the ball back or be fluid in transition I don't see the whole premise working, neither Netzer scoring 3 goals.
2. From the first page I think Oaencha did this to explain the defensive phase, while also mentioning Alaba/Reuter being fullbacks in that formation while Kante/Verratti would press a bit higher to get the ball back:
-------------- Preud'homme -------------
Reuter ---------- Rosato ---------- Alaba
---- Kante ----- Guardiola --- Verratti
if that's the plan Reuter and Alaba would naturally have to shore the defence and defend more narrow rather than hug the line, otherwise it will leave a lot of space at the back and I don't see working whilst sitting deep and compact when defending like it was mentioned in the OP.
It's either deep line with the full backs defending more narrow without a DM falling into CB ala Rijkaard/Busquets or high line, squeezing the midfield and defending away from goal.
Actually, on reading Oaencha's tactics again, he has specified in at least two places that Guardiola and Kante would stay back in the attacking phase. Alaba and Reuter will stay wide, whether in attack or defense.
Combine that with his specified 3-4-3 in attack, it should look something like this:
Giggs-Inzaghi-Bene
Alaba-Verratti-Netzer-Reuter
Guardiola-Kante
Rosato
That looks okay imo. It's a slightly attacking version of a back three, but it's plausible and certainly favours a midfielder's game. Here's my post asking about it:
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yes, but defensively they are listed as full backs in a deep line. That would either mean two of Pep/Kante/Verratti to drop back as CB's(which doesn't suit their game at all) or the full backs to tuck inside otherwise they'll leave a lot of space between the lines.
it's either:
-------------- Preud'homme -------------
Reuter ---------- Rosato ---------- Alaba
---- Kante ----- Guardiola --- Verratti
or
-------------- Preud'homme -------------
Reuter ----Guardiola-- Rosato --Verratti--- Alaba
------------------- Kante --------------------------
You are completely missing what I wrote for the defensive formation and Reuter played at RCB many times and is very adeppt at tackling. Please read through my write-up; all your questions will be answered.
I'm suprised at at how the votes are going. I should have gone with a safe formation as hardly anyone is getting how my formation works.
The thing for me is that even your and joga's posts seem to highlight Streltsov more than Elkjaer. I mean you posted dozens of gifs and match videos of Streltsov instead of Elkjaer mate!
I feel I've learned a lot more about Streltsov as a player in this thread than Elkjaer for example.
so true!Rosato, Alaba and Reuter will be the core of the defence while defending. Kante, Guardiola and Verratti will sit in front as defensive midfielders. No-one is playing in a system they can't play in. Kante, Guardiola and Verratti will not be defenders but will sit in front of the penalty area creating a wall.
I'm sure many 7nderstand it but just don't buy it.
Guardiola having key defensive duties? Yeah, that will work...
There's even a clip that has done the rounds before where Cruyff says Guardiola can't defend to save his life.
The fundamental problem really is WHY? Why create something so random and difficult to get right which clearly has absolutely nothing to do with Netzer shining?
In that case, you shouldn't have mentioned the defensive formation as 6-3-1. I'm actually starting to warm up to your team but if you make the process of attack to defence and vice-versa clearer it would give a much better idea. Since this is a system of your own creation, it warrants more explanation.
So basically the first one in defence. That makes more sense as the 6-3-1 in the defensive phase is a bit confusing. It's a bit more like 3-3-1-3 or something when you consider the two lines of defence.
It's not that I don't understand the concept but rather I don't see how it will work in reality.
When you have 2 lines of defence in a 3 man back line the full backs are more RCB and LCB rather than defending wide as a simple ball over the top of your first line of defence(Kante/Pep/Verratti) will slice it wide open and leaves gaps between your CB (Rosato) and your full backs(Reuter/Alaba) if they are instructed to defend wide.
In a deep line it should be Kante/Verratti defending wide while the full backs would tuck in and narrow the space - which will result the desired 6 man back line.
I don't buy Reuter as a RCB to be perfectly honest - it's probably one of the last positions I'd use him in the defensive line. He played his best as a RWB or overlapping attacking RB in both Dortmund and also Germany. In Dortmund he was RWB with Kree, Sammer and Kohler in the center, while for Germany it was Kohler, Buhwald, Sammer, Helmer and Babbel with central roles during the WC, Euro's he participated in.
2 more disciplined wide defenders are more appropriate as well as Koeman type of CB in there and a DM dropping back. It would make a more cohesive unit at the back, while you keep the line and the set up to your players best attributes.
A two lines of defence IMO makes much more sense if you ditch the deep line and switch to high line and press the opponents as well as squeezing the zone where the opposition attackers could operate - this leaving them no time on the ball but also limit the space.
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3.00 (wins the ball back from the Italians before positioning himself intelligently and flicking on and assisting the opener for the Danes)
4.01 (Watch him making his typical darting run, all the way from the left to the right, confounding his markers, before beating his man and putting an nice cross)
8.25 (great counter-attacking goal with Elkjaer providing the assist)
9.20 (hits the bar from 30 yards or so after beating two Italians)
Once again highlights his all-round game here, functioning as a reference point, providing great movement off the ball, service from out wide or from the means of flick-ons etc. As always he is always at the epiccentre of things, inserting himself in plays somehow
@oneniltothearsenal
Are there any videos of the earlier him? The one's you posted before are from 1967 when he played more as AM having lost some pace, I suppose.
3.20 (Pounces on mistake by defender to score a poacher's goal)
4.20 (great individual goal after going at it solo without any support, scoring a goal after beating 2 Soviet defenders)
7.25 (fantastic movement to befuddle his marker, leaves him on the floor without touching him, but the final pass by Laudrup isn't good enough)
8.06 (wins the header from the goal-kick before beating his man and assisting Laudrup)
13.04 (great zig-zag off the ball run during a rapid counter-attack confuses marker and he should have won a penalty)
Just watched the Streltsov vs Austria video. I don't know if he appeared particularly selfless, but that probing, creative style would seem to mesh very well with Elkjaer to me. The whole attack looks very high-octane, which plays to Elkjaer's rampaging strengths, and the Robbo-Elkjaer connection in particular looks properly barnstorming. Lovely effort IMO.
I applaud Oaencha for trying something innovative, but if I'm honest I'm struggling to see the coherence of the team in general, and moreso I'm not really seeing how it caters to Netzer in particular. I'd have preferred seeing him start in a deeper role. There's an overlap in the styles of Netzer/Guardiola/Verratti, and while that isn't the end of the world in and of itself, it does come at the expense of having other qualities in the team, particularly midfield runners breaking forward in support of Netzer.
I applaud Oaencha for trying something innovative, but if I'm honest I'm struggling to see the coherence of the team in general, and moreso I'm not really seeing how it caters to Netzer in particular. I'd have preferred seeing him start in a deeper role. There's an overlap in the styles of Netzer/Guardiola/Verratti, and while that isn't the end of the world in and of itself, it does come at the expense of having other qualities in the team, particularly midfield runners breaking forward in support of Netzer.
Cheers mate. If you watch the short highlight vids that I've posted above, you can see the sheer influence that Lerby had over Denmark and the how he was given the license to burst forward and frequently exhibit his long-range shooting and those fantastic one-twos with the outside of his boot
. One of the prime reasons why we decided to prioritise on Robson as our first pick as we could see his directness and all-round game meshing well with Elkjaer's high octane game itself, not forgetting his partership with Briegel in Hellas Verona.Your and @harms team has been an educational experience for me mate. Thanks for introducing me to some wonderful footballersCheers mate. If you watch the short highlight vids that I've posted above, you can see the sheer influence that Lerby had over Denmark and the how he was given the license to burst forward and frequently exhibit his long-range shooting and those fantastic one-twos with the outside of his boot
On the other hand @Oaencha 's team has been an intellectual exercise in an altogether different way. I've been stalking drafts for sometime now (
) but this is the first time I've considered changing my vote multiple times.Kudos to both of you!
Had to go for the team with Streltsov & PEL up front. That would be immense.
There's never a bad time to watch that Denmark team. So entertaining. I ended up watching quite a bit of them when we picked Frank Arnesen in an old draft, and Lerby was a real standout. I was surprised at his passing range as I thought he'd be a more limited player, and Robbo is an ideal surrugate really.Cheers mate. If you watch the short highlight vids that I've posted above, you can see the sheer influence that Lerby had over Denmark and the how he was given the license to burst forward and frequently exhibit his long-range shooting and those fantastic one-twos with the outside of his boot
3.00 (wins the ball back from the Italians before positioning himself intelligently and flicking on and assisting the opener for the Danes)
4.01 (Watch him making his typical darting run, all the way from the left to the right, confounding his markers, before beating his man and putting an nice cross)
8.25 (great counter-attacking goal with Elkjaer providing the assist)
9.20 (hits the bar from 30 yards or so after beating two Italians)
Once again highlights his all-round game here, functioning as a reference point, providing great movement off the ball, service from out wide or from the means of flick-ons etc. As always he is always at the epiccentre of things, inserting himself in plays somehow
@oneniltothearsenal
Cheers and thank you. These were exactly the types of videos I was hoping for to help understand the player better - and I been on phone all day so hard to search.
I can see where people are coming from in regards to it being difficult to pin-point just who the team is built around but after mulling it over I think that is a sign of strength if anything. Just because there are other players who are seemingly perfect fits in the setup doesn't take away the fact that Elkjaer would also be playing an ideal role here. Blankenburgs passing range, the two flanks with Kaltz excelling at finding his strikers and Deyna as a different kind of playmaker centrally. That's all stuff that Elkjaer would love and he'd get to express his full range of tricks and skills here and it is a hard job to build a side around someone as good and well rounded as Elkjaer.
For Oaencha I love the attempt of something different and I think he nailed the defense with Reuter/Alaba in sort of the dream team roles with Rosato not trying to be Koeman by any means. The entire team looks good bar Verratti and I am a huge fan of his and think he could play most roles well but here he doesn't seem to fit in at all. He just doesn't add anything that isn't already there between Netzer and Guardiola and if anything he'd take away from Netzer.
For Oaencha I love the attempt of something different and I think he nailed the defense with Reuter/Alaba in sort of the dream team roles with Rosato not trying to be Koeman by any means. The entire team looks good bar Verratti and I am a huge fan of his and think he could play most roles well but here he doesn't seem to fit in at all. He just doesn't add anything that isn't already there between Netzer and Guardiola and if anything he'd take away from Netzer.
You could replace all the other players with GOATs, practically, and Elkjaer still wouldn't positively suffer from it in terms of being a good fit.
However, it doesn't seem particularly believable that his actual impact on the match, play by play, wouldn't be diminished in any way.
Nobody (that I've seen) have questioned whether the setup, in itself, would work.
Shades and degrees for me, but you certainly can't keep adding match winners and whatnot to this mix and still maintain that some kind of «the more, the merrier» principle won't make it harder to showcase an individual player.
However, it doesn't seem particularly believable that his actual impact on the match, play by play, wouldn't be diminished in any way.
Nobody (that I've seen) have questioned whether the setup, in itself, would work.
Shades and degrees for me, but you certainly can't keep adding match winners and whatnot to this mix and still maintain that some kind of «the more, the merrier» principle won't make it harder to showcase an individual player.
Well, given the block list, that problem probably wouldn't arise a lot but. Say if you replace Deyna with Maradona there, would it still be Elkjaer's team or one that is built around him or something? There's obviously no doubt that in that team with Maradona as the #10 and PEL as the forward it would be unstoppable and as far as I remember I mentioned Elkjaer as one of the best fits when the discussion about getting Maradona's best was being done. It would be possibly the best playmaker for someone like Elkjaer to dovetail with and shine but at the same time he would be nowhere near in being a central player in that team, etc.
Nope, only a few goals
It looks like the risk backfired. Congratulations to @harms @Joga Bonito
A big thanks to anyone who voted for my team; I'm glad you appreciated the unorthodox approach. Thanks as well to everyone who gave imput.
Can I make a suggestion that in the next draft we're allowed to make our write-ups different to the template we were told to stick by? Most of the questions posters are asking about my team are included in my write-up. There needs to be a shorter, snappier way of presenting your team, as I'm guessing it's 'too long, didn't read'.
A big thanks to anyone who voted for my team; I'm glad you appreciated the unorthodox approach. Thanks as well to everyone who gave imput.
Can I make a suggestion that in the next draft we're allowed to make our write-ups different to the template we were told to stick by? Most of the questions posters are asking about my team are included in my write-up. There needs to be a shorter, snappier way of presenting your team, as I'm guessing it's 'too long, didn't read'.
@Oaencha I tend to be quite skeptical of any back three without some sort of wide defensive support. It really needs to be player-fit-perfect and tick a lot of boxes to be pulled off. I think you had a lot to shout about in that sense - wide defenders with lots of pace (key given how much ground they are responsible for) and experience of playing central (both moreso in midfield, but you can sort of buy it); a holding CM with experience in this system in Guardiola; a hard-working winger in Giggs (not sure about Bene); some good graft in the side-CM gigs. Generally though I only see it succeeding when either you've got really top-end quality in the key roles - the back three have to almost be the best players on the park and the holding CM works better when he can drop into the back line (see Rijkaard for Ajax). Or when your possession game is so much superior to the opposition's that you need little in the way of defensive numbers (recent Barcelona / Pep teams).
I would support this and tend to be guilty of, at best, skimming over it if there's a lot of spiel to digest. Less is more IMO. Most of the managers will probably be divided on it though and I'm sure we've all been guilty of using the OP to ramble on for hours on end.
Your and @harms team has been an educational experience for me mate. Thanks for introducing me to some wonderful footballers
On the other hand @Oaencha 's team has been an intellectual exercise in an altogether different way. I've been stalking drafts for sometime now (
Kudos to both of you!
Cheers.
Aye, these are the type of players who really stand out for me (Lerby, keane, Robson etc). Not only can they drive forward their side and command the direction and orientation of their side with their inspirational and leadership qualities, they can also actively influence them with their quality on the ball.
It's quite unique watching their influence in a holistic manner and there are times when you capture the influence of a playmaker in a compilation video but you can't quite do that with a player of Lerby/Robson's ilk. Especially against Liverpool where the tempo of the game was frantic and players were just bouncing off each other, and you could see the sheer influence that Robson had over United and how Pool missed a figure like that (post Souness). One of the very few games where I really felt that 'inspirational influence/effect' as clichéd as it sounds.
Cheers, ideally we wanted various avenues through which Elkjaer can express himself and he's just the sort of player who is so hard to keep under the wraps, and somehow forcefully finds a way to make an impact on the game.
Cheers, great effort by you and hope to see more of you in these drafts.
Yeah, same.
If you want particular/interesting points discussed, it's better to let these pop up naturally as people keep commenting and asking questions.
OP should be a brief overview with focus on basic roles/functions and overall approach. Leave the details for the debate(s).
And, as always, if the manager feels that it's necessary to write a novel about something in particular, he can do so elsewhere and post a link. If people are interested, they will check it out - if they aren't, they won't read said novel in the match thread either.
That said, this draft isn't standard - and I can understand why a template was considered necessary here. But you can insist on people including x, y and z in their presentation while still keeping it brief - and then do the link thing if necessary.
I always keep my OP brief just so that what I'm actually writing gets read. Few key points and a formation graphic and I'm done. Any questions just increase the debate in the thread making the match much more fun to partake in.
"Go play. Hairdryer if you fail."
1. Indeed.
2. Questions were asked to make sure we understand your plan, and your expectations about Alaba/Reuter (primarily RCB vs RB vs RWB)
I've always said writeups should be limited to X characters.
I open a game and swipe down to the teamsheets. If I don't get to them after the first swipe that's a writeup I won't read. After seeing the teamsheets I swipe down and if I see the next posts I go back, else I carry on and skip the writeups altogether.
The only exception to this is when a certain player looks odd or I know little about, so I go check what the deal is with that specifically.
I did mention this in my write up but I'm happy to clarify.
Alaba and Reuter are hybrid wing back / full backs. They are both intelligent players who know how to defend and attack.
They have free reign to get forward and attack but are expected to come back and defend when we lose possession. They are both blessed with pace and stamina so getting up and down the field quickly will not be a problem.
While the team attacks, Rosato, Guardiola, Kante and occasionally Verratti will stay back and cover in case the move breaks down.
While defending Alaba and Reuter will sit deep and cover the wings, while Rosato will act as a stopper with Guardiola, Kante and Verratti sitting in front of the area to cover him.
That's interesting. So I guess home advantage is a massive benefit; especially if it is a long write-up? The away team gets lost in the middle of a wall of text.
I guess it's a question of how influential/dominant/likely to steal the show his team mates can be before it becomes a problem.
If your task is simply to use him well - and not to make him stand out - it will never be a problem as long as the players you surround him with aren't tactical misfits.
However, as I take the spirit of the draft, part of the plot is to showcase players who normally don't get to grab the headlines, so to speak.
Take Denmark as the starting point, to keep it simple, and focus on the status (more than the particular roles) of the players, i.e. how likely they were to - again - dominate, shine, steal the thunder, etc.
You get a free ride, as it were, with Laudrup - as he was better than practically anyone you can «replace» him with here.
Lerby follows, I'd say, and is fairly unproblematic too. You can probably allow yourself to upgrade him a bit in terms of being directly involved/influential.
Beyond that, it gets more subtle and problematic. Can you «replace» Arnesen with an absolute world beater who is likely to put his stamp on the match - or Jesper Olsen, ditto - without this effectively making Elkjaer a less crucial figure than he was, historically?
The Streltsov choice obviously isn't directly relevant to the above, as he doesn't «replace» anyone as such. But he's a legendary player who probably won't have a nice and quiet game if he's on song. And he appears alongside a more dangerous and dominant «version» of Lerby.
So, yeah - shades and degrees, like I said above. Perhaps it's just within reason, perhaps it's slightly too much - but I don't think you can add another Robbo type (i.e. a match winner/thunder stealer) on top of it.
Thanks for the answers. I've understood. High expectations