Harry Kane MBE | Performances

[hellohello]

Thanks for your assessment, it's a good one I think. I see a lot of similarities with Pogba (Alli is a better finisher but not as skilful). However, where they currently differ is how their coach is trying to develop them. Mourinho is starting to get more responsibility out of Pogba by playing him deeper, whereas Alli is playing with much more freedom. I look back at Gerrard as a model of how not to develop top attacking midfield talents personally, and Alli is currently sailing closer to that development path than Pogba. Thing Alli has in his favour of course is Poch's enthusiasm for defending from the front and the fact that he's still very young.

However, where I disagree with you is that he's not currently more of a forward than a midfielder.

Heat map from that Chelsea game where he scored 2 goals:

Yeah Pogba and Alli are currently being asked to do slightly different jobs, and with Pogbas range of passing and physical attributes I can understand why he is used in a deeper position. I still believe that neither player would benefit from being forced to play a holding role, but should be allowed to move into whatever space they think will benefit the team. This is why I believe Pogba is best when playing in a 4-3-3 variant, and not in a typical 4-2-3-1 with a classic number 10 who occupy the space in front of him.

It's interesting that you think Alli's current position may be a hindrance to his development, but personally I don't think this is the case at the moment (at least). What do you think went wrong with the development of Gerrard? I take it you feel he didn't manage to develop positional awareness and the discipline required to be a world class holding midfielder?

That heat map is really cool! I was looking for the exact same thing, but didn't find it, is there a page such information is available for free? Regarding this particular heat map; if I remember correctly, that Chelsea game we played with 3 defenders, 2 wingbacks, 2 holding midfielders, and with Alli and Eriksen behind Kane, - Alli more advanced than Eriksen who dropped deeper into a playmaking role. So in this game in particular he was playing as a second striker with almost no defensive responsibilities due to the tactics set on the day. So I agree with you, that he has been used as a forward in certain games this season (when we went 3 at the back), but this is not the position he usually plays. Would be interesting to see heat maps for other games this season as well.

 

[caisenma]

hahaha... Lingard's not top notch but at Sutton's level?

as much as i dislike lingard, i don't actually believe that. was being more than slightly OTT

 

[Solver]

as much as i dislike lingard, i don't actually believe that. was being more than slightly OTT

Yeah- I thought it was just a joke. But Lingasrd's age makes it possible for him to improve too

 

[yumtum]

Kane reminds me of a lesser version of Muller, he just scores, obviously a good player, but there's nothing visually pleasing about his style, I wouldn't want him at United, I'd have preferred to keep little pea than spend £80-100m to get Kane.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Kane reminds me of a lesser version of Muller, he just scores, obviously a good player, but there's nothing visually pleasing about his style, I wouldn't want him at United, I'd have preferred to keep little pea than spend £80-100m to get Kane.

ur clearly not looking that hard, if ur don't appreciate work rate, hold up play and close control fair enough. Little pea over Kane? Pass me ur glue mate.

 

[yumtum]

ur clearly not looking that hard, if ur don't appreciate work rate, hold up play and close control fair enough. Little pea over Kane? Pass me ur glue mate.

Did I say I didn't appreciate it? I said there's nothing visually pleasing about his style, if you read again I say he's a good player, like Muller I just don't like that style, it's all opinions, no need to pull a temper tantrum when someone doesn't wet themselves over a Spurs player.

I'd rather spend all that cash on a Dybala, I'd even go as far and say Icardi is a better player than Kane, he's just a nutcase.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Did I say I didn't appreciate it? I said there's nothing visually pleasing about his style, if you read again I say he's a good player, like Muller I just don't like that style, it's all opinions, no need to pull a temper tantrum when someone doesn't wet themselves over a Spurs player.

I'd rather spend all that cash on a Dybala, I'd even go as far and say Icardi is a better player than Kane, he's just a nutcase.

Temper tantrum? I just said I find it weird ud rather pump for an unproven player over bread and butter, Shearer was hardly a flair player? A 23 yo with his return is a little better than good I'd say.

 

[yumtum]

Dybala isn't an unproven player though, Kane isn't bread and butter either, he can be a bit of a donkey (see the Euro's) at times, I just find his style unpleasing for the amount of money it'd take to take him to United.

Note that I'm saying for the amount of money (as Levy would want at least £80m) and not saying he's a bad player, I'd just want more for that kind of cash.

Shearer was and will always be a much better player than Kane so not sure why you've put him into the conversation, Kane is a good player, just not worth breaking records to get.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Dybala isn't an unproven player though, Kane isn't bread and butter either, he can be a bit of a donkey (see the Euro's) at times, I just find his style unpleasing for the amount of money it'd take to take him to United.

Note that I'm saying for the amount of money (as Levy would want at least £80m) and not saying he's a bad player, I'd just want more for that kind of cash.

Shearer was and will always be a much better player than Kane so not sure why you've put him into the conversation, Kane is a good player, just not worth breaking records to get.

Kane is 23!!! 23! He's a striker, he will score. Why exactly u call him a donkey I have no idea. Dybala is the same age scored no international goals and plays in a league far inferior to ours. Tell me why u think Shearer is better? He was far from graceful, another question, how do u rate Sheringham?

 

[yumtum]

Yes? I know his age, just because he's 23 doesn't mean he's suddenly going to improve into an £80m player, he might, I just find it doubtful, no doubt he'll score goals, not saying otherwise, I just don't like his style, and I didn't call him a donkey! I said he can play like one sometimes (again, you'd want an £80m player to play at the level of Ronaldo/Messi/Neymar).

Shearer was better than both Sheringham and Kane, actually Sheringham is about the level I expect Kane to achieve, good player, not quite the elite.

I'm going to establish my point again here because you seem to be pinpointing words I'm using and going off in a tangent, he's a GOOD player, I'd have him here if he cost no more than £40m...But Levy would never let him go for anything less than £80m and he just isn't, or is never going to be a player in that bracket, this is what I'm getting at.

I don't think Kane will ever excite me as a striker as a Falcao or Torres had done at their peaks, it's just what I prefer to see.

Regarding Dybala, Italy is notoriously difficult to score in, yes as a while it's below the Premier League, but defensively it's still strong, and Argentina, you think Kane could get games when he is competing with the likes of Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuain? Give it a couple of years and Dybala will have surpassed Kane I'm quite sure of it.

For what it's worth I wouldn't have Griezmann at £80m either, so again, I'm not saying Kane is crap, because he's clearly not, he's just not going to be worth what Spurs will want for him.

P.s I only sniff glue on weekends.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Yes? I know his age, just because he's 23 doesn't mean he's suddenly going to improve into an £80m player, he might, I just find it doubtful, no doubt he'll score goals, not saying otherwise, I just don't like his style, and I didn't call him a donkey! I said he can play like one sometimes (again, you'd want an £80m player to play at the level of Ronaldo/Messi/Neymar).

Shearer was better than both Sheringham and Kane, actually Sheringham is about the level I expect Kane to achieve, good player, not quite the elite.

I'm going to establish my point again here because you seem to be pinpointing words I'm using and going off in a tangent, he's a GOOD player, I'd have him here if he cost no more than £40m...But Levy would never let him go for anything less than £80m and he just isn't, or is never going to be a player in that bracket, this is what I'm getting at.

I don't think Kane will ever excite me as a striker as a Falcao or Torres had done at their peaks, it's just what I prefer to see.

Regarding Dybala, Italy is notoriously difficult to score in, yes as a while it's below the Premier League, but defensively it's still strong, and Argentina, you think Kane could get games when he is competing with the likes of Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuain? Give it a couple of years and Dybala will have surpassed Kane I'm quite sure of it.

For what it's worth I wouldn't have Griezmann at £80m either, so again, I'm not saying Kane is crap, because he's clearly not, he's just not going to be worth what Spurs will want for him.

P.s I only sniff glue on weekends.

Time will tell, personally I wouldn't swap Kane for anyone u mentioned in Spain simply due to his age. Italy is not the league it was look at Zaza at West Spam, we spunked big money o Soldado and the Dutch kid and failed, to score goals in the Premiership u need to be sure.

To be fair I agree with you, Kane isn't really a United player but could u honestly say Jose is a United manager? He's not about youth or really exciting play he's about results now and in any way possible. I'd actually bet you £50 that in 5 years Kane will be in a different level than Dybala not really due to talant but in sheer disire. There has been to many nearly strikers in Italy and I don't agree on the defensive side in their league anymore, since the Juve debacle their league has been incredibly poor. Just my opinion, the EPL is so much more intense, more games, no break, and from top to bottom every game is hard.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

P.S. Gorilla or super ?

 

[yumtum]

P.S. Gorilla or super ?

Depends on my mood I'll take that bet though, back here in 5 years time to see which one is closer to the Ballon D'or?

Also I'd only ever seen SAF as a manager, so no one suits the job to me. (Spoilt!)

 

[hellohello]

Yes? I know his age, just because he's 23 doesn't mean he's suddenly going to improve into an £80m player, he might, I just find it doubtful, no doubt he'll score goals, not saying otherwise, I just don't like his style, and I didn't call him a donkey! I said he can play like one sometimes (again, you'd want an £80m player to play at the level of Ronaldo/Messi/Neymar).

Shearer was better than both Sheringham and Kane, actually Sheringham is about the level I expect Kane to achieve, good player, not quite the elite.

I'm going to establish my point again here because you seem to be pinpointing words I'm using and going off in a tangent, he's a GOOD player, I'd have him here if he cost no more than £40m...But Levy would never let him go for anything less than £80m and he just isn't, or is never going to be a player in that bracket, this is what I'm getting at.

I don't think Kane will ever excite me as a striker as a Falcao or Torres had done at their peaks, it's just what I prefer to see.

Regarding Dybala, Italy is notoriously difficult to score in, yes as a while it's below the Premier League, but defensively it's still strong, and Argentina, you think Kane could get games when he is competing with the likes of Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuain? Give it a couple of years and Dybala will have surpassed Kane I'm quite sure of it.

For what it's worth I wouldn't have Griezmann at £80m either, so again, I'm not saying Kane is crap, because he's clearly not, he's just not going to be worth what Spurs will want for him.

P.s I only sniff glue on weekends.

Not disagreeing with you really, and it's understandable that you wouldn't want to pay 80m for Kane, not that I think Levy would sell anyway. But it is too early to speak of Kane and 'was', he is 23 and time will tell how he will compare with those players. If he continues to produce 20+ league goals seasons for 10+ years he would be spoken of in the same breath as Shearer, if he improves, even better. His level might suddenly drop as well, and he will stabilize as a 10/15 goals a season striker. Time will tell.

If he does continue to produce 20+ league goals a season he would absolutely be worth the 80m in my eyes, the current market is silly.

 

[yumtum]

Not disagreeing with you really, and it's understandable that you wouldn't want to pay 80m for Kane, not that I think Levy would sell anyway. But it is too early to speak of Kane and 'was', he is 23 and time will tell how he will compare with those players. If he continues to produce 20+ league goals seasons for 10+ years he would be spoken of in the same breath as Shearer, if he improves, even better. His level might suddenly drop as well, and he will stabilize as a 10/15 goals a season striker. Time will tell.

If he does continue to produce 20+ league goals a season he would absolutely be worth the 80m in my eyes, the current market is silly.

Understand where you're coming from, but I don't think he will improve to a level of scoring Ronaldo/Messi like numbers, and I don't think he'll break Shearer's record for prem goals, he's a very good player, but I just think there's better out there.

If he scores 20 goals a season for the next 10 years then I'll take my hat off to him, still wouldn't change my mind of having to pay the amount it'd take to get him.

 

[Bwuk]

I'm not saying we will, but signing Harry Kane is basically guaranteeing 20 odd goals in the league from your striker assuming he stays fit.

He's worth the money. He's maybe not he most aesthetically pleasing, but if he scores goals who cares

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Cracking player. Not world class.
Romario was world class. Aguero and Rooney were world class.

Kane is a top premier league striker

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Cracking player. Not world class.
Romario was world class. Aguero and Rooney were world class.

Kane is a top premier league striker

Granted but he is 23, he still has time to take the next step up in levels.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Granted but he is 23, he still has time to take the next step up in levels.

I didn't disagree. But right now that's where he is.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

There was a once upon a time that the ones I mentioned were on his level too. That doesn't mean he can't get there.

 

[hellohello]

Understand where you're coming from, but I don't think he will improve to a level of scoring Ronaldo/Messi like numbers, and I don't think he'll break Shearer's record for prem goals, he's a very good player, but I just think there's better out there.

If he scores 20 goals a season for the next 10 years then I'll take my hat off to him, still wouldn't change my mind of having to pay the amount it'd take to get him.

Yeah agree. I don't think any of the top 6 teams should look to buy players from any of the other 5 (except in circumstances such as Sanchez currently, where the player got all the power). The money you would need to spend for Kane or other top players from rivals will probably be better spent elsewhere.

For us, in our position, even with the money we could get, the signal it sends out would in my opinion be detrimental, and we would not be able to sign top class talent to replace him. We don't pay the wages, and don't have the pulling power so we can't afford to lose our best players or allow this 'project' to fail too early. If Pochettino manages to establish us as a top side in England with the new stadium, we might be able to take the next step and pay for top class talent, until then we can't afford to lose players such as Kane. When we sold Bale, people said it was a good deal, for me it wasn't because I knew we couldn't replace him, no matter what transfer fee we might get (same for Modric). We can't pay 80m to play 12 players so keeping our best players should be a priority.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Yeah agree. I don't think any of the top 6 teams should look to buy players from any of the other 5 (except in circumstances such as Sanchez currently, where the player got all the power). The money you would need to spend for Kane or other top players from rivals will probably be better spent elsewhere.

For us, in our position, even with the money we could get, the signal it sends out would in my opinion be detrimental, and we would not be able to sign top class talent to replace him. We don't pay the wages, and don't have the pulling power so we can't afford to lose our best players or allow this 'project' to fail too early. If Pochettino manages to establish us as a top side in England with the new stadium, we might be able to take the next step and pay for top class talent, until then we can't afford to lose players such as Kane. When we sold Bale, people said it was a good deal, for me it wasn't because I knew we couldn't replace him, no matter what transfer fee we might get (same for Modric). We can't pay 80m to play 12 players so keeping our best players should be a priority.

Would you say he'll ever be top ten

 

[hellohello]

Would you say he'll ever be top ten

Top 10 what? Strikers in the world? If we only count number 9's I'd argue he's already there. (9's as in including Suarez, and not Messi or Neymar). He's a world class goal scorer IMO.

He would not look lost in almost any team in the world. If we put him in the current Real Madrid team I don't think they would get worse for it. And I'm not sure Benzema would score 20+ a few seasons in a row with us.

There are better 9's out there of course. Lewandovsky, Suarez, and even Ibra for example. But he's young and can improve, whether he takes that extra step remains to be seen but he has time. Suarez was 24 when he moved to Liverpool I think, and he wasn't world class before around 26 years of age I'd argue.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Top 10 what? Strikers in the world? If we only count number 9's I'd argue he's already there. (9's as in including Suarez, and not Messi or Neymar). He's a world class goal scorer IMO.

He would not look lost in almost any team in the world. If we put him in the current Real Madrid team I don't think they would get worse for it. And I'm not sure Benzema would score 20+ a few seasons in a row with us.

There are better 9's out there of course. Lewandovsky, Suarez, and even Ibra for example. But he's young and can improve, whether he takes that extra step remains to be seen but he has time. Suarez was 24 when he moved to Liverpool I think, and he wasn't world class before around 26 years of age I'd argue.

9 including, the ones I called he's not there yet. He's a Shearer but more of a Sutton

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Boss English striker but not would class

 

[hellohello]

Fair enough, how do you think he compares to Rashford and Martial?

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Fair enough, how do you think he compares to Rashford and Martial?

He's easily better for now

 

[Billy Blaggs]

He's not as talented but he is better.

 

[Solver]

Fair enough, how do you think he compares to Rashford and Martial?

he's better than both; Martial could yet pip him though when Zlatan leaves and he becomes the main striker again

 

[Dobbs]

Maybe I'm being harsh here but today's No.9's (the good one's) should be scoring 20 league goals.

Unlike Shearer and Cole they don't have a striker next to them hunting down the same opportunities. There's a certain number of easy goals each season that previously two strikers had to share out. For Kane, Zlatan, Costa etc there's only them in the box, waiting for a tap in.

 

[yumtum]

Yeah agree. I don't think any of the top 6 teams should look to buy players from any of the other 5 (except in circumstances such as Sanchez currently, where the player got all the power). The money you would need to spend for Kane or other top players from rivals will probably be better spent elsewhere.

For us, in our position, even with the money we could get, the signal it sends out would in my opinion be detrimental, and we would not be able to sign top class talent to replace him. We don't pay the wages, and don't have the pulling power so we can't afford to lose our best players or allow this 'project' to fail too early. If Pochettino manages to establish us as a top side in England with the new stadium, we might be able to take the next step and pay for top class talent, until then we can't afford to lose players such as Kane. When we sold Bale, people said it was a good deal, for me it wasn't because I knew we couldn't replace him, no matter what transfer fee we might get (same for Modric). We can't pay 80m to play 12 players so keeping our best players should be a priority.

Pretty much, if he came through the ranks here (United) it'd be great, but £80m is a lot of cash, would you pay £80m for him if he was at say, Everton? Bear inind Suarez went for £60m, I know times are changing but like you say, the teams in the Prem these days are too financially secure to poach players off!

I also think he's going to be a lifer at Spurs, you don't accept 100k a week when you could get at least 150k somewhere else unless you have the affinity he has for you lot, it's actually quite refreshing to see.

Also your question on who is better between Martial, Kane and Rashford, is obvious that Kane is better, he's playing in his natural position and our two are still being shoehorned into a position on the wings! I still prefer the style of Martial, just a personal preference though, hopefully he can start scoring on a regular basis!

@InLevyITrust you wanna make that bet then bro?

 

[balaks]

Yes? I know his age, just because he's 23 doesn't mean he's suddenly going to improve into an £80m player, he might, I just find it doubtful, no doubt he'll score goals, not saying otherwise, I just don't like his style, and I didn't call him a donkey! I said he can play like one sometimes (again, you'd want an £80m player to play at the level of Ronaldo/Messi/Neymar).

Shearer was better than both Sheringham and Kane, actually Sheringham is about the level I expect Kane to achieve, good player, not quite the elite.

I'm going to establish my point again here because you seem to be pinpointing words I'm using and going off in a tangent, he's a GOOD player, I'd have him here if he cost no more than £40m...But Levy would never let him go for anything less than £80m and he just isn't, or is never going to be a player in that bracket, this is what I'm getting at.

I don't think Kane will ever excite me as a striker as a Falcao or Torres had done at their peaks, it's just what I prefer to see.

Regarding Dybala, Italy is notoriously difficult to score in, yes as a while it's below the Premier League, but defensively it's still strong, and Argentina, you think Kane could get games when he is competing with the likes of Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuain? Give it a couple of years and Dybala will have surpassed Kane I'm quite sure of it.

For what it's worth I wouldn't have Griezmann at £80m either, so again, I'm not saying Kane is crap, because he's clearly not, he's just not going to be worth what Spurs will want for him.

P.s I only sniff glue on weekends.

I'm delighted to hear this tbh - the more Utd fans don't want Kane the better imo. He's ours.

 

[balaks]

Maybe I'm being harsh here but today's No.9's (the good one's) should be scoring 20 league goals.

Unlike Shearer and Cole they don't have a striker next to them hunting down the same opportunities. There's a certain number of easy goals each season that previously two strikers had to share out. For Kane, Zlatan, Costa etc there's only them in the box, waiting for a tap in.

Easy to say that but when you look at the records of strikers there are actually very few who have hit +20 goals per season on a regular basis. If Kane manages to get +20 for his third season in a row which looks likely he will already be in a very select (and small) group of strikers who have played in the Premiership who have managed it.

 

[yumtum]

I'm delighted to hear this tbh - the more Utd fans don't want Kane the better imo. He's ours.

To be fair fans don't have much say in transfers, but if I did I still wouldn't push the button on that much for Kane, saying that I wouldn't pay what it takes for Griezmann either.

 

[balaks]

To be fair fans don't have much say in transfers, but if I did I still wouldn't push the button on that much for Kane, saying that I wouldn't pay what it takes for Griezmann either.

Griezmann is a good player but I agree that his likely transfer fee will be much higher than he is actually worth. The problem is that there just are not that many top level strikers available at the moment. I'm not convinced he even is a top level striker either tbh. Will he score 20+ goals per season if he goes to Utd? It's not a certainty.

 

[Floyd]

Griezmann is a good player but I agree that his likely transfer fee will be much higher than he is actually worth. The problem is that there just are not that many top level strikers available at the moment. I'm not convinced he even is a top level striker either tbh. Will he score 20+ goals per season if he goes to Utd? It's not a certainty.

20+? Just in the Premier League or total? In total, Griezmann at United, he'll score 20+ easily.

 

[Dobbs]

Easy to say that but when you look at the records of strikers there are actually very few who have hit +20 goals per season on a regular basis. If Kane manages to get +20 for his third season in a row which looks likely he will already be in a very select (and small) group of strikers who have played in the Premiership who have managed it.

That's what I'm saying though mate. It was harder in the past. Shearer had Les Ferdinand and Sutton taking a big chunk of the goals. As a result not many hit the 20 mark consistently. Those chances now exclusively fall to the one centre forward. Kane, Costa and Zlatan should be filling their boots.

I think we need to re evaluate what constitutes a good goal target now football has switched to just one up front.

 

[balaks]

That's what I'm saying though mate. It was harder in the past. Shearer had Les Ferdinand and Sutton taking a big chunk of the goals. As a result not many hit the 20 mark consistently. Those chances now exclusively fall to the one centre forward. Kane, Costa and Zlatan should be filling their boots.

I think we need to re evaluate what constitutes a good goal target now football has switched to just one up front.

You do of course realise that when defenders have one striker to mark rather than two that makes it much more difficult for that striker to get space without a striking partner making runs and creating space?

Your argument is flimsy at best tbh. Even if you had a point, where are all these No. 9's scoring 20+ goals regularly if it's that much easier?

 

[balaks]

20+? Just in the Premier League or total? In total, Griezmann at United, he'll score 20+ easily.

Maybe, i'm not 100% convinced though tbh.

 

[BlueCelery]

Decent player will never be World Class though.