Harry Kane

Hammondo

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Kag said:
Captain Hindsight here.

You can’t sit there and tear into our recent recruitment for looking into high profile players on the decline (Kane?), then pedal the idea that we should have been going for younger players who can develop into world class forwards all along, and then also tear into the very sort of thinking that lead us into buying a Premier League-proven 24 year old coming off the back of scoring 25 league goals for Everton.

What Lukaku was, or rather what he looked like he could have turned into, is essentially exactly what you’re asking for right now. That he never managed to kick on and had the world’s largest chip on his shoulder is only truly apparent now he had his chances at the top and then blew it.

And this is the risk. Oshimen, Ramos, your man at Atalanta who has scored eight (eight!) fecking goals. It’s why Harry Kane makes even more sense. He’d come in and score, which is what we need.
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Because as many people here mentioned, you can see Lukaku is a massively overrated poor footballer from a fecking mile, its so obvoius. Nothing to do with hindsight, many said it here before he was bought.

At no point did he look like anything that I have said, aside from young.
 

Kag

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Hammondo said:
Because as many people here mentioned, you can see Lukaku is a massively overrated poor footballer from a fecking mile, its so obvoius. Nothing to do with hindsight, many said it here before he was bought.

At no point did he look like anything that I have said, aside from young.
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So we’ve finally arrived at the sensible conclusion that it’s the quality of player that matters, which is the nub of the issue around Kane.

Kane is the tits. He’s unbelievable. He scores a truckload of goals and is, without doubt, a brilliant all round footballer. Sod his age. I’m not prepared to listen to the view that we ignore this reality and actively pursue an obviously inferior alternative in pursuit of some long term transfer ideology.

If there was a striker on the market anywhere close to being in the same ballpark as Harry Kane then I’d hold my hands up and see reason. There isn’t that player, and given the fact that so many people have now exchanged ideas with me in this thread and are yet to come close to a viable suggestion really speaks volumes.
 

MadDogg

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Kag said:
So we’ve finally arrived at the sensible conclusion that it’s the quality of player that matters, which is the nub of the issue around Kane.

Kane is the tits. He’s unbelievable. He scores a truckload of goals and is, without doubt, a brilliant all round footballer. Sod his age. I’m not prepared to listen to the view that we ignore this reality and actively pursue an obviously inferior alternative in pursuit of some long term transfer ideology.

If there was a striker on the market anywhere close to being in the same ballpark as Harry Kane then I’d hold my hands up and see reason. There isn’t that player, and given the fact that so many people have now exchanged ideas with me in this thread and are yet to come close to a viable suggestion really speaks volumes.
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It's not just his age though. It's also his lack of pressing which is probably the thing I'm more worried about. We already have Rashford basically locked into a starting spot who also doesn't press, and Martial, Sancho and Garnacho when they play don't either (hopefully the latter can develop that side of his game though). Carrying one player in that regard can just about be done, but two? Sometimes three? I see it as a real issue if we do want to develop into a high pressing, high intensity team.
 

sullydnl

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Kag said:
So we’ve finally arrived at the sensible conclusion that it’s the quality of player that matters, which is the nub of the issue around Kane.

Kane is the tits. He’s unbelievable. He scores a truckload of goals and is, without doubt, a brilliant all round footballer. Sod his age. I’m not prepared to listen to the view that we ignore this reality and actively pursue an obviously inferior alternative in pursuit of some long term transfer ideology.

If there was a striker on the market anywhere close to being in the same ballpark as Harry Kane then I’d hold my hands up and see reason. There isn’t that player, and given the fact that so many people have now exchanged ideas with me in this thread and are yet to come close to a viable suggestion really speaks volumes.
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Osimhen. If he came into the league, hit the ground running and outperformed Kane over the next three seasons it wouldn't be particularly surprising to most football fans. Because Kane is a 30 year old CF who obviously could decline quicker than people anticipate and even if he doesn't, Osimhen is one of the most highly rated strikers in Europe right now who could obviously outscore him in a given season. You might think it's more likely that Kane would outperform him, but it's obviously very plausible that he wouldn't.

And while I certainly haven't seen enough of someone like Goncalo Ramos to say he's a better bet than Kane, would I be shocked if he came to the PL and was a massive success? Not particularly. Because in his current league he's scoring at a better rate than Kane has in the PL this season. So literally all you have to believe is that he can transfer his goalscoring to the PL as successfully as many other players from different leagues have in the past. If someone has seen enough of him to believe that, it's a perfectly valid opinion.

Also, it's kinda weird to come into a thread and say "I'm not prepared to listen to the view that [insert opinion other than your own]".
 

Hammondo

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Kag said:
So we’ve finally arrived at the sensible conclusion that it’s the quality of player that matters, which is the nub of the issue around Kane.

Kane is the tits. He’s unbelievable. He scores a truckload of goals and is, without doubt, a brilliant all round footballer. Sod his age. I’m not prepared to listen to the view that we ignore this reality and actively pursue an obviously inferior alternative in pursuit of some long term transfer ideology.

If there was a striker on the market anywhere close to being in the same ballpark as Harry Kane then I’d hold my hands up and see reason. There isn’t that player, and given the fact that so many people have now exchanged ideas with me in this thread and are yet to come close to a viable suggestion really speaks volumes.
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Kane is in the top 2 strikers in the world, I have not said anything different. I am simply saying that right now we won't gain much from him (in terms of trophies) while hes here, and that money could be spent better for us to win more trophies in the future.
 

Abraxas

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Kag said:
And here we are at last.

Yes, this is exactly what I am saying.

Look, if Kane can’t or won’t come then we need to go elsewhere, that’s obvious. But I’m not going to sit here and listen to people chat shite about actively seeking to bring in somebody significantly poorer and less proven all because they happen to be 22 years old instead of 29. I’m not having it.

If Kane is available then you go for it. It’s as simple as that. If he isn’t then the club needs to find another solution, but let’s not pretend it’s going to be as good. It isn’t.
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I don't think anybody is arguing that point so I'm not sure why you're treating it as a slam dunk. Who would possibly maintain that Kane isn't proven or elite? But for many of us that have alternate views, a few more factors enter the equation, that's why we have been going in circles.

What do you mean you're not going to sit here and listen? You're sat here and you're listening because you're actively participating. Well, at least you're replying, whether you're listening I'm not sure after this comment. That's what you do on a forum. If you mean you have no time for opposing opinion, well..fair enough. Maybe there's an echo chamber out there with your name on it. What a load of pointless hot air about not listening and "not having it."

So if we do have to go elsewhere, do you maintain that our potential is capped at 4th (or 5th - an actual regression on this season despite a full transfer market ahead of us)? There's zero chance that Ramos, Osimhen if we want to go mad, or David etc could help us out on this season's performance?
 

Kag

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Abraxas said:
I don't think anybody is arguing that point so I'm not sure why you're treating it as a slam dunk. Who would possibly maintain that Kane isn't proven or elite? But for many of us that have alternate views, a few more factors enter the equation, that's why we have been going in circles.

What do you mean you're not going to sit here and listen? You're sat here and you're listening because you're actively participating. Well, at least you're replying, whether you're listening I'm not sure after this comment. That's what you do on a forum. If you mean you have no time for opposing opinion, well..fair enough. Maybe there's an echo chamber out there with your name on it. What a load of pointless hot air about not listening and "not having it."

So if we do have to go elsewhere, do you maintain that our potential is capped at 4th (or 5th - an actual regression on this season despite a full transfer market ahead of us)? There's zero chance that Ramos, Osimhen if we want to go mad, or David etc could help us out on this season's performance?
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Hot air is rich. It’s taken a fair exchange to finally get some tangible alternatives on the table from some of you lot. Even then, it doesn’t fill me with a great deal of hope

I find the argument that bringing in some (incredibly expensive) risk, with a view to spending some made up budget elsewhere, on the back of what is essentially age, to border on preposterous. Especially when you look at what this team needs as a priority.

Cards on the table, as I’ve laboured the point long enough: I’d bring in Kane (if possible) for anything up to £100 million and bring in Raya from Brentford to replace the man in goal. I’d then get rid of Maguire and McTominay and find reasonable alternatives to buy with whatever they fetched.

And yes, without a guaranteed 30 goal striker I think we’re in for another season battling for top four.
 

Kag

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Hammondo said:
Kane is in the top 2 strikers in the world, I have not said anything different. I am simply saying that right now we won't gain much from him (in terms of trophies) while hes here, and that money could be spent better for us to win more trophies in the future.
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We disagree on this, ultimately.
 

Doracle

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sullydnl said:
My argument hasn't switched. None of the strikers at those top four clubs are as good as Kane and none of them have been scoring goals at that world class level.

In Jesus' case because his rate of returns simply aren't world class, along with him having been out injured for a massive chunk of the season. And in Isak and Wilson's cases because their numbers are skewed by irregular minutes. Their goalscoring isn't the same as the full season of week in week out returns Kane has put in which amounts to a much greater individual/total contribution and actually returning goals at a world class level.

Because clearly when the poster I was referring to said we needed a striker scoring a world class level, he wasn't suggesting we buy someone like Calumn Wilson just because he returned at an even better per minute rate than Kane. We know Wilson's goalscoring "achievements" this season aren't actually representative of world class goalscoring in the same way Kane or Haaland's are. That argument is sophistry.

Also, speaking of strawmen, when did I say I was fine with spending £55m on Mason Mount? I never once referenced his fee and I repeatedly said he's not the profile of midfielder I want us to sign. Saying he's better than people think doesn't mean I want us to buy him.

And suggesting that the people who don't want us to spend 80-100m on a 30 year old CF who has already clearly declined from his physical peak must dislike Kane is exactly the sort of defensiveness I was referring too. It's one thing to think Kane is the best option, it's another to think your opinion is so infallibly correct that the obvious common sense objections to it are some symptom of bias. Or that it's impossible for any other striker to be as good or better a signing.
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No one that I have seen is saying they are undoubtedly correct. Kane is my preferred signing for us but, of course, he’s not the only option. Any signing is always going to be a balance between cost/budget and ability (and future potential).

As it stands, these are some of the prices I’ve seen quoted:

Osimhen - £140m
Kolo Muani - £105m
Kane - £100m
Ramos - £100m
Vlahovic - £100m
Hojlund - £60m

My view is Kane is by far the best fit for our team and the best player (currently) of that list and that the price (which I’d hope to get down given Spurs problems if they don’t sell him) is the best value, given the risks with the others. However, if Osimhen was suddenly available for much less, for example, then his potential to have a few more years than Kane might outweigh the fact I don’t think he’s as good or as likely to improve us over the next 3 years.

What I absolutely disagree with is that we can afford to take a chance and not go with a player we think can hit the ground running next season. You buy for the future when you have the players to cover the “now”. We do not have that luxury at CF currently.
 

skc_18

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Looking at the Chelsea forward line, I wont be surprised if they are interested in Kane as well. No CL might favor us a little though.
 

Lash

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skc_18 said:
Looking at the Chelsea forward line, I wont be surprised if they are interested in Kane as well. No CL might favor us a little though.
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If he wants to go to Chelsea in the state their in, he's not the player we want.
 

11101

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I don't want us to sign him. Getting old, getting slow, and would cost a fortune. There are better options out there. However, i'd take anybody right now. If hes the one ETH has settled on, lets go and get him.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Nou_Camp99 said:
We also have Garnacho and possibly Amad coming back.

Kane will make a huge difference trust me. He's a genuine world class number 9.
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You misinterpreted the post entirely, no one’s saying he’s not a very very good player.

I’d go for another type of striker, would be happy to have him but it’s not a cherry on top of a cake signing, we have issues he won’t solve.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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InfiniteBoredom said:
If you keep 20 clean sheets and concede 1 goal in another 9-10 games then you can absolutely compete with 75 goals, we are not far off that.

This season alone, if you take only games where we’ve drawn or lost 1-0, namely:

Newcastle home (0-0)
Chelsea away (1-1)
Palace away (1-1)
Leeds home (2-2)
Soton home (0-0)
Spurs away (2-2)
Brighton away (0-1)
West Ham away (0-1)

Only 10 goals are needed to turn those into wins, and we would be 16 (!) points better off, and that’s still leaving all the drubbings we received, or other matches where we lost by a goal but conceded 2 goals or more.

Of course you’d rather the team is free scoring and get 85+ goals a season, but we don’t necessarily need that to compete.
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No Premier League side has competed with less than 90 goals since Leicester and that was an anomaly.

You need goals to compete. The league has changed.
 

Nou_Camp99

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AFC NimbleThumb said:
You misinterpreted the post entirely, no one’s saying he’s not a very very good player.

I’d go for another type of striker, would be happy to have him but it’s not a cherry on top of a cake signing, we have issues he won’t solve.
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Who then?

140m on Osimhen? A guy who hasn't done the business outside of Serie A.

That would be a real gamble. Kane is proven. He is a goal machine in this league.
 

Oscar Bonavena

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If we got Kane and strengthened the midfield, we could seriously be Champions League contenders next season. Not because we'd necessarily become world beaters overnight, but because there's not a lot of great teams in European club football right now (City is probably the only one, unfortunately for us). But with Kane in our team, we'd have a chance of beating anyone in a given game, even City in a final!

This lad is guaranteed goals, scoring and creating, and is a brilliant and intelligent footballer. He's scored 28 league goals in a Spurs team who have been utter dogshit this season. What more is there to discuss?! F**k signing some kid with "potential" who might, maybe, possibly, be good in 5 years time. We need to get serious!
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Nou_Camp99 said:
Who then?

140m on Osimhen? A guy who hasn't done the business outside of Serie A.

That would be a real gamble. Kane is proven. He is a goal machine in this league.
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There are more than 2 strikers in world football, I don’t get paid 10s of thousands to scout them but I don’t feel Kane represents much better value than Osimhen [not sure why he’s been brought up].

The likelihood of a league win next year is slim, I think people looking to pin hopes on Kane are being fanciful. We can’t keep the ball, he’ll certainly convert more than Wout & Martial but he’s not the cherry when he’d be the majority of our budget.
 

Nou_Camp99

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AFC NimbleThumb said:
There are more than 2 strikers in world football, I don’t get paid 10s of thousands to scout them but I don’t feel Kane represents much better value than Osimhen [not sure why he’s been brought up].

The likelihood of a league win next year is slim, I think people looking to pin hopes on Kane are being fanciful. We can’t keep the ball, he’ll certainly convert more than Wout & Martial but he’s not the cherry when he’d be the majority of our budget.
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This is the issue. Our scouting team is awful.

Kane Osimhen Ramos Hojlund seem to be the main 4 names mentioned in press.

Personally I'd go Kane and then go for Evan Ferguson in a few years.
 

Nou_Camp99

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skc_18 said:
Looking at the Chelsea forward line, I wont be surprised if they are interested in Kane as well. No CL might favor us a little though.
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Spurs fans really hate Chelsea. Almost as much as they hate Arsenal. It's quite an intense rivalry which probably means that deal would never happen. Not sure Kane would do it to his club.

Joining Utd isn't anything like as controversial and they'd probably begrudgingly accept it given the circumstances of the two clubs right now.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Eddy_JukeZ said:
No Premier League side has competed with less than 90 goals since Leicester and that was an anomaly.

You need goals to compete. The league has changed.
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Chelsea won the very next season with 85 goals, was that an outlier too? Same with Liverpool 19-20.

City if anything have been anomalies in terms of consistent goalscoring in the PL era. That’s not an exception that proves the rule, the real story here is you have to be defensively excellent to win the league, as always.

Leicester 15/16: 36 GA (0.95)
Chelsea 16/17: 33 GA (0.87)
City 17/18: 27 GA (0.71) - this was the season they scored 106 goals btw.
City 18/19: 23 GA (0.61)
Pool 19/20: 27 GA (0.71)
City 20/21: 32 GA (0.84)
City 21/22: 26 (0.68)

I could be wrong, but I think you have to go all the way back to us in 2013 to have league champions who conceded more than a goal a game, and that was partly because we won it in March and shipped 5 in Fergie last game of the season. The formula for title contention hasn’t changed, be rock solid at the back and score a good amount up front, about 80+ is the norm but you can make do with 70-75 if you are Mourinho-esque. The most overlooked aspect of Guardiola as a manager is how defensive minded he is, despite the brilliance of his teams in attack, his whole idea of football is built around having the ball all the time so the opponents can’t score, and now he’s playing 4 CBs backline even.
 

croadyman

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tenpoless said:
I see. Still impressive though. Not to mention the effect it's going to have for the team. It can't be calculated by goals or points but it will boost the team's morale. I think Kane is the perfect CF we can sign next season, if we're after results right away. For long term there might be better options.
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Who should we target long term?
 

croadyman

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Oscar Bonavena said:
If we got Kane and strengthened the midfield, we could seriously be Champions League contenders next season. Not because we'd necessarily become world beaters overnight, but because there's not a lot of great teams in European club football right now (City is probably the only one, unfortunately for us). But with Kane in our team, we'd have a chance of beating anyone in a given game, even City in a final!

This lad is guaranteed goals, scoring and creating, and is a brilliant and intelligent footballer. He's scored 28 league goals in a Spurs team who have been utter dogshit this season. What more is there to discuss?! F**k signing some kid with "potential" who might, maybe, possibly, be good in 5 years time. We need to get serious!
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Who should we sign to strengthen midfield
 
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