Exactly. It's easy saying a great team, but if the team hadn't won a world cup, would they still be seen as great. France had a great team between 1982 and 1986. They lost on fine margins, If they had won, would we say they were a truly great team?
Has Argentina ever produced a truly great team?
- Thread starter Skills
- Start date
No they havent had a great team, they have had several. The 86 team was top, the 90s team also had better players than people seem to remember, the 98 team was stacked with talent and they had a grat side was it 2010/2014?
Though this current side is weak in areas... I think in 10/15 years we ould be looking at it as a good side as well as MAartinez and Romero could be remembered as great centre backs and Enzo Fernandez and Alvarez are breaking through in this world cup and could go on to have big careers, then yo add Messi. I thought for the first time in the tournament they looked good tonight until the deflected goal I am confident they beat Hollandso could really grow into this tournament
Though this current side is weak in areas... I think in 10/15 years we ould be looking at it as a good side as well as MAartinez and Romero could be remembered as great centre backs and Enzo Fernandez and Alvarez are breaking through in this world cup and could go on to have big careers, then yo add Messi. I thought for the first time in the tournament they looked good tonight until the deflected goal I am confident they beat Hollandso could really grow into this tournament
They played at home in 1978. In those days, the host have very big advantage and more if you know what I mean.
And the 1986 team without their God is just an average team.
The rest of their team did not win the world cup, and hence can't be said "truly great team".
You never answered my question
I expected great things from them in 2002. They had looked amazing through the qualifiers with 14 points more than Brazil and a +27 GD in 18 games.
Crespo was at his unplayable (short) peak but then they played an ancient legless Bati at the World Cup.
Crespo was at his unplayable (short) peak but then they played an ancient legless Bati at the World Cup.
2006 was pretty balanced, should have won the Cup if not for bad subs.
2010 was pretty good. Sadly they had an amateur manager in Maradona.
2010 was pretty good. Sadly they had an amateur manager in Maradona.
People who rate countries like France and Spain above Argentina have a very Eurocentric view of football
Argentina have a better World Cup record than either of those countries and have produced more legendary players.
If you limit to post World War only, Argentina also have a better record than Italy.
Honestly, only Germany and Brazil are above Argentina in my view.
Argentina have a better World Cup record than either of those countries and have produced more legendary players.
If you limit to post World War only, Argentina also have a better record than Italy.
Honestly, only Germany and Brazil are above Argentina in my view.
Yet you don't include Italy who have won it twice as many times as Argentina, France and Uruguay have won it twice as well so should be at least equal
France 1982-86 was a great team. They didn't need to win a World Cup, it was pretty evident.
OP specified the post world war era.
If you include every World Cup, then yes, Argentina is 4th. They are ahead of France and Uruguay because they’ve been more successful than both. Total cups is only part of the equation.
Argentina have been in 5 finals, France in 3, Uruguay in 2.
In the past 5-10 years they have produced good talents. Its just that Messi fanboys think the team was holding Messi down and Messi is the only world class player.
I did. They were a great team and wouldn't have won but for two reasons. 1. Played at home. 2. Johan Cruijff didn't go.
Then of course the notorious match against Peru. Corruption was much higher those days than now.
Their pool of talents during Messi's era sbould be enough to win them one or two WC albeit they were a bit lightweight in CB and GK. However, their selection of coach during these time is just criminal. I dont know what their FA thinking with some of those choices.
Im not sure about corruption being higher in those days, you have checked out how Qatar won its bid???
None of that changes the fact that team was stacked. The dutch and Brazil were equally as stacked
Platini's teams 1984-1986 were great. Sadly no trophy.
Few great dutch teams as well.
Yes, under Cesar Luis Menotti, their style of playing was very attractive and beautiful in my eyes. Although, their attacking was too-much central-oriented and sometimes one-dimensional in some matches. It was a great team for sure, a lot of starters had great touch and class with the ball. However, the point that we've been talking about for over 40 years did they deserve the WC or what happened in the background( they have a lot of assumptions including the involvement of Henry Kissinger).
Their coaches is well... Name one good coach they had...
Literally the post above yours
Their teams are always a bit weird. Even before the Messi era, many of their top players just lacked the edge to play for a top club. Riquelme, Aimar, Ayala, etc.
That's different to Brazil who basically all are in the starting elevens of the best clubs around.
That's different to Brazil who basically all are in the starting elevens of the best clubs around.
Wasn't Pekerman one of Guardiola's role models? Think his 2006 team was the first time I saw possession football, albeit not as good. It's a bit weird that Bielsa never coached the NT.
No body got shot. The corruption is not about Argentina winning the bid. It was what happened after that. Now at least we have VAR and the Referee can't get away with it. Look at The Peru game against Argentina? No way Peru would have lost like that. I say the same with the previous WC with Germany and Austria.
So have The Italians. Total of 5 and 3 post world war 2.OP specified the post world war era.
If you include every World Cup, then yes, Argentina is 4th. They are ahead of France and Uruguay because they’ve been more successful than both. Total cups is only part of the equation.
Argentina have been in 5 finals, France in 3, Uruguay in 2.
Total of 6… in post WW2 era, Italy has played 4 and lost 2 finals to Brazil… In 1970 and the shootout of 1994…
If we are conveniently, restricting our comparison to this period. Argentina also won 2 and lost 2…
Putting Spain and France at the same level as Argentina is reasonable. They both have won multiple European trophies, and I mean no disrespect to Copa America… But if we follow the logic he used to diminish pre WW2 trophies, then France having won it in 98 and 2018 should rank higher than Argentina that hasn’t won it since 86…
Not to be rude, but Bielsa oversaw one of the worst campaings of Argentina's NT in a world cup. Korea-Japan 2002, with the infamous performance by Veron against England that saw him being called a traitor and much worse. Went out in the group phase.
The thing with the World Cup is that you don't need a GREAT match-day coach. You need players in form and a bit of luck (injuries, schedule) and a coach that knows how to play short and intense tournaments.
Thats what I saw from Argentina yesterday: they managed two goals and then proceeded to dial it down to conserve energy. The strategy can backfire, as seen by the freak goal by Australia and their subsequent animic boost.
But all in all I like what I'm seeing from the team.
Yeah, but they literally advanced to the final stage after Kissinger and Videla threatened peruvian players, those two literally went to the peruvian dressing room before the game started...Argentina needed to win 4-0 at least or they were eliminated, and they won 6-0, with a suspicious lazy attitude from peruvian players.
Videla and Kissinger were not going to let Argentina not even reach the final stages.
Stacked team for sure, but that was a bloody World Cup, literally organized under a dictatorship, not much different than the 2 first cups won by Italy under Mussolini.
I'm sure the argentinians feel the same way........
Absolutely. Putin in the last WC had nothing on General Videla. Yet Kissinger was his Guest of Honour.