Have we ever been successful without using our youth system?

Aloysius's Back 3

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Sir Alex Ferguson for nearly 20 years managed to expand the use one class of players from the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Gary and Phil Neville, John O shea, Wes Brown, Nicky Butt, Fletcher, evans and many more during that period. I keep wondering - a 20 years of dominance from a group of players all revolving around the same age group +-3-5 years, having the understanding of playing together from a young age right up until they retired or left - its madness. These players were not just sitting on the subs - they formed the core basics of our team with other players usually bought providing the cutting edge around these guys.

Whether it were players like Cole & Yorke playing upfront or later on Rooney, Tevez & Ronaldo - these players that won us our games were playing behind a core basis of Manchester United who understood how to play the football that they had grown up with. Whether it was Stam or Vidic & ferdinand playing in defence - these guys were still part of our defence & it was understood what needed to be done on the day they walked out on the pitch. The same thing is seen by the busby babes and the likes of charlton & best afterwards.

They formed the core basics and environment that we should play around. Even towards the end of the tenure SAF had managed to win a title by using a player like Cleverley being one of our main midfielders during that season whilst including Rafael who had played in our youth team also. Then what happens? Januzaj is our own shining light during Moyes's tenure. LVG's tenure lead to the introduction of player like Rashford, Lingard, TFM, Varela looking like our last shining light during that period. What happens when Giggs takes over manager for a few games? Wilson scores a double on his debut. What happens under Jose - nothing much, players like TFM & tuenzebe get loaned instantly whilst we break the bank paying 90 million pounds for a player who was already in our youth system in Pogba. Players like Rashford look lost and there seems a significant gap between our youth team & our first team.

My question is - have we done enough? Do we need to do this more?
What's stopping us from unearthing the class of 2019? Or do you believe this was just a one off coincidence that we managed to get top class players when we did?

In my opinion we can buy all the players we want but we will simply not have the ability to play like a Manchester United team without playing our youth players in a path to take over our core basic understanding of the football that we play; something they do from as kids.

It's not method made up - we have arguably the best youth teams historically in the PL alongside clubs like Southampton, Arsenal & Liverpool. I look at teams like Barcelona who constantly introduce players from their youth team who end up becoming better than nearly anyone they bought. The same with Ajax, the same with Bayern, the same arguably for Juventus or Milan back in the day. The same for Monaco, the same for Lyon - the list is endless.

Hell look at City, they seemingly missed out on Sancho whilst still using foden - players that dont look strictly out of depth. I look at Liverpool right now and I am more jealous about their use of players like Alexander Arnorld & Joe Gomez having the ability to play their type of football for 10-15 years rather than the type of football they are getting from players like Salah or VVD who may not be there in 2 or 3 years time.

I think it needs to happen - a group of 5 or 6 players to come up soon and just play first team football & i'm pretty confident that it will get us playing a more team orientated type of football that revolves around the core understanding of our great club. This is one of the main reasons I want a homegrown bred manager like Giggs, Butt or Carrick. Success will come soon after.
 

Aloysius's Back 3

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Gomez isn't from Liverpool's academy. I don't know why people keep trying to claim he is.
He moved in 2015 didnt he? I dont care if the lad was born in the city or not - the same way Rafael had come from Brazil; its the fact that they are on an upward trajectory from the young team to take the upper spots on the starting 11. Even if that is wrong; young players need to be used like teams like Bayern, Barcelona, even madrid nowadays for our own benefit?

Do you not agree?
 

limerickcitykid

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He moved in 2015 didnt he? I dont care if the lad was born in the city or not - the same way Rafael had come from Brazil; its the fact that they are on an upward trajectory from the young team to take the upper spots on the starting 11. Even if that is wrong; young players need to be used like teams like Bayern, Barcelona, even madrid nowadays for our own benefit?

Do you not agree?
He moved as a first team player and was at no point ever a part of Liverpool's academy. Nor were Rafael and Fabio ever a part of our academy.

We have absolutely loads of young players in our first team too, what is your point? And some of your examples have produced feck all from their academies in ages.
 

Aloysius's Back 3

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He moved as a first team player and was at no point ever a part of Liverpool's academy. Nor were Rafael and Fabio ever a part of our academy.

We have absolutely loads of young players in our first team too, what is your point? And some of your examples have produced feck all from their academies in ages.
That's because they are still successful with the youth team players that are playing for them. When they retire or when they struggle - let's see what they do..
 

Sky1981

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We need another class of 92. We want another class of 92.

Problem is we dont know how to produce another class of 92.

Things like this golden generation cant be controlled and nurtured. Kinda like the regen in fm, you can have all 5 star coaches, a great manager with a great phylosophy and all that but you still need a good regen.
 

Rood

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doubt we ever have another Class of 92 but we still have Rashford and Lingard at the moment

Jose did promote McTominay and Andreas is part of the squad so hes not totally killed the progress of the academy - i do think he should have given more games to young players in the Haribo Cup though
 

charlenefan

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As if it needs to be said the class of 92 is something that happens once in a lifetime, the only other club that's produced such a high end 'class' of players is Barcelona (in my lifetime anyway). Every other club does it by buying the best (see Real, Bayern, City, Chelsea etc etc)

Fergie's tenure coupled with the class of 92 was a one off, we now need to find a new way of being successful and though people don't like it it's those who spend the most money that sit at the top these days
 

Smores

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Trying to force through youth because that's who we are is never the right way forward. We might get another era of players coming through together but it's unlikely.

We should invest in giving our academy all the resources it needs but beyond that it's a matter of taking whoever is good enough.

This place over emphasises the abilities of our youngsters it always has since I've been coming here. 9/10 academy years produce feck all talent.
 

DCP

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Pay the families of the 12 year old kids with the most potential nationally a wage.
Board them at our own school
Provide with access to quality teaching and quality football development
Give them the tools to ensure that they are level headed and grounded.
Mould them in to what we want from a young footballer.
 

The Boy

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Yes you have been successful without using the youth system. when you won the premiership in 92-93, the team basically was made up of Peter Schmeichel, Paul Parker, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Dennis Irwin, Lee Sharpe, Brian McClair, Paul Ince, Andrei Kanchelskis, Ryan Giggs, Eric Cantona and Mark Hughes. Only Giggs was home-grown. Hughes had been bought back from Barcelona. Sharpe was signed from Torquay.

The class of 92 was effectively a freak of nature and a fantastic one matched only by the Busby Babes. I don't know how many here remember "Fergies Fledglings" Lee Martin, Tony Gill, David Wilson, Russell Beardsmore, Mark Robins and Deiniol Graham and Sharpe. Only Sharpe and Martin made any real impact. The rest were moved on, or did not make it.

Before that the biggest youth impact was the Busby Babes, who knows how good they could have been. If it hadn't been for the tragedy at Munich they might have gone onto dominate the league and Europe for a decade. Some of them like Foulkes, Brennan and Charlton went onto win the European cup in 68 and actually alot of the 68 team came through the youth system. I cant remember them all but pretty sure only Stepney and Crerrand were brought from other teams as first team starters - that team should have a nickname too!

So youth is certainly part of Utd history more than most other clubs, but teams made up mainly from transferred players have also played their part in your success.
 

The Boy

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Looking back on an era most would like to go back to, 07/08, our team looked like this;

VDS, Brown, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Scholes, Carrick, Park, Tevez, Ronaldo, Rooney.

One youth player from a graduating class sixteen years earlier and a player who made his debut ten years before.
Sorry should have added this team to the above as well, another great team without really using the youth system
 

OldRed1

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Yes you have been successful without using the youth system. when you won the premiership in 92-93, the team basically was made up of Peter Schmeichel, Paul Parker, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Dennis Irwin, Lee Sharpe, Brian McClair, Paul Ince, Andrei Kanchelskis, Ryan Giggs, Eric Cantona and Mark Hughes. Only Giggs was home-grown. Hughes had been bought back from Barcelona. Sharpe was signed from Torquay.

The class of 92 was effectively a freak of nature and a fantastic one matched only by the Busby Babes. I don't know how many here remember "Fergies Fledglings" Lee Martin, Tony Gill, David Wilson, Russell Beardsmore, Mark Robins and Deiniol Graham and Sharpe. Only Sharpe and Martin made any real impact. The rest were moved on, or did not make it.

Before that the biggest youth impact was the Busby Babes, who knows how good they could have been. If it hadn't been for the tragedy at Munich they might have gone onto dominate the league and Europe for a decade. Some of them like Foulkes, Brennan and Charlton went onto win the European cup in 68 and actually alot of the 68 team came through the youth system. I cant remember them all but pretty sure only Stepney and Crerrand were brought from other teams as first team starters - that team should have a nickname too!

So youth is certainly part of Utd history more than most other clubs, but teams made up mainly from transferred players have also played their part in your success.
Mark Hughes joined United straight from school so was home grown. When he was brought back from Barca it was his second stint at United.
 

The Boy

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Mark Hughes joined United straight from school so was home grown. When he was brought back from Barca it was his second stint at United.
absolutely right, sorry I did say he was brought back from Barca, but forgot he'd come through the youth system

He did a pogba!
 

norm87cro

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Promoting young players should be the general direction of this club but not a strict rule by any means. The Class od 92 was special as was the team in the 50s. Every other generation had a few great academy players but nothing solid to form a core on. Guy's like O'shea, Fletcher, Brown, Welbeck and Cleverley we're never first 11 material. But good Squad options. Options I would much rather have than guy's like Darmian, Rojo or Lindelof. And since United youth is the subject, no love for Mark Robins?
 

Trizy

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We shouldn't be forced to promote youth just because ''it's the United way''. If a player is just not good enough they shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XI (see Rashford, Lingard, McTominay).

Jose has been criticized several times by the media for not promoting youth and all of a sudden he's at United and playing young players. That's obviously the board making him do it.
 

SirAF

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We shouldn't be forced to promote youth just because ''it's the United way''. If a player is just not good enough they shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XI (see Rashford, Lingard, McTominay).

Jose has been criticized several times by the media for not promoting youth and all of a sudden he's at United and playing young players. That's obviously the board making him do it.
Agreed. That said, I do think that the club should try to utilize as many youth players as possible as squad players. Lingard, for instance, is a fantastic option to have for rotation.
 

POF

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I'm not really sure what the OP is getting at. The class of 92 were certainly great servants to the club and fantastic players but there seems to be an insinuation that United can't be successful without players from the academy, which is of course nonsense.

The main driver behind Fergie's success was the core group of strong leaders in every squad he had. That made it easier for the young players to come through and buy into that winning culture, not the other way around. Robson, Cantona, Keane, Bruce, Irwin, Schmeichel, Stam, Ronaldo, Vidic, Evra were all hugely influential figures and far better leaders than any of the Class of 92 and were all signed from other clubs.

As for a new Class of 92 to come along, I think the current group in the u19 Champions League is an outstanding group of players with huge potential. Gomes, Chong, Garner, O'Connor, Laird and Greenwood are huge talents.
 

dave1956

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Yes you have been successful without using the youth system. when you won the premiership in 92-93, the team basically was made up of Peter Schmeichel, Paul Parker, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Dennis Irwin, Lee Sharpe, Brian McClair, Paul Ince, Andrei Kanchelskis, Ryan Giggs, Eric Cantona and Mark Hughes. Only Giggs was home-grown. Hughes had been bought back from Barcelona. Sharpe was signed from Torquay.

The class of 92 was effectively a freak of nature and a fantastic one matched only by the Busby Babes. I don't know how many here remember "Fergies Fledglings" Lee Martin, Tony Gill, David Wilson, Russell Beardsmore, Mark Robins and Deiniol Graham and Sharpe. Only Sharpe and Martin made any real impact. The rest were moved on, or did not make it.

Before that the biggest youth impact was the Busby Babes, who knows how good they could have been. If it hadn't been for the tragedy at Munich they might have gone onto dominate the league and Europe for a decade. Some of them like Foulkes come through Brennan and Charlton went onto win the European cup in 68 and actually alot of the 68 team came through the youth system. I cant remember them all but pretty sure only Stepney and Crerrand were brought from other teams as first team starters - that team should have a nickname too!

So youth is certainly part of Utd history more than most other clubs, but teams made up mainly from transferred players have also played their part in your success.
Tony Dunne 1960 to 1973 signed from Shelbourne was the other player alongside Stepney and Crerand
 

99withaflake

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Here is a list of players who came through the academy and then made more than 50 appearances for the first team:
  • Arthur Albiston
  • John Aston Sr.
  • David Beckham
  • George Best
  • Clayton Blackmore
  • Jackie Blanchflower
  • Shay Brennan
  • Wes Brown
  • Francis Burns
  • Nicky Butt
  • Roger Byrne
  • Johnny Carey
  • Bobby Charlton
  • Tom Cleverley
  • Eddie Colman
  • Ronnie Cope
  • Alex Dawson
  • Mike Duxbury
  • Duncan Edwards
  • Jonny Evans
  • John Fitzpatrick
  • Darren Fletcher
  • Bill Foulkes
  • David Gaskell
  • Ryan Giggs
  • Johnny Giles
  • Fred Goodwin
  • Alan Gowling
  • Brian Greenhoff
  • Mark Hughes
  • Adnan Januzaj
  • Mark Jones
  • Brian Kidd
  • Jesse Lingard
  • Lee Martin
  • David McCreery
  • Wilf McGuinness
  • Sammy McIlroy
  • Johnny Morris
  • Gary Neville
  • Phil Neville
  • Jimmy Nicholl
  • Jimmy Nicholson
  • John O'Shea
  • Stan Pearson
  • David Pegg
  • Paul Pogba
  • Marcus Rashford
  • David Sadler
  • Paul Scholes
  • Nobby Stiles
  • Dennis Viollet
  • Gary Walsh
  • Danny Welbeck
  • Billy Whelan
  • Norman Whiteside
And here are the current players who are between 0-50 appearances, and are trying to become more established in the first team:
  • Scott McTominay
  • Andreas Pereira
Apologies for any I may have missed. Wikipedia is a good friend though!

EDIT: Just included the additions from @dave1956
 
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dave1956

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Here are a few more, Eddie Colman, Ronnie Cope, Alex Dawson, John Fitzpatrick, David Gaskell, Fred Goodwin, Alan Gowling, Mark Jones, Lee Martin, Norbert Stiles, Gary Walsh