How about Bruno Fernandes as a ‘false 9’?

[LawCharltonBest]

I don’t suggest this with any particular conviction.. but feel it might be worth testing for a game or two, especially with Rashford out.

Last season he was our top PL scorer since Van Persie won us the league.

If we want to move to a 4-3-3, Fernandes might lose his presence in the attacking third. Whereas as a ‘false 9’ he can be in and around Greenwood and Sancho, who’ll then have more freedom to cut into the box (Trippier and Shaw’s width would help here too) - also means Pogba could be the most attacking of a midfield 3.

I’m sure most will think it’s a bad idea but can you explain why?

 

[2 man midfield]

I think he’s better breaking through from midfield. I actually think he’s better there than as a pure 10.

 

[JPRouve]

He has the tools but I prefer him deeper, he seems to be at his best when he is involved in all aspects of the game. I already don't like the fact that he doesn't use all his tools as a pure 10, it would be worse as a 9.

 

[Tallis]

I don’t expect us to see a false 9 approach under Ole. The 9 and the 10 seem to be quite important in his formations.

 

[Dante]

To be an effective false 9, you have to be brilliant at holding possession and impossible to shove off the ball. The whole point is to drag CBs forward out of position without giving anything away in return.

Totti, Tevez or Messi were the archetypes. I don't think Bruno has it in his locker. Sancho is probably the player in our squad who's best suited to the role.

 

[Mickeza]

I said in one of the many 4-3-3 threads that the only potential way to get the best out of Bruno and Pogba is to play Bruno as a false 9 and surround him with runners around him as he drops deep. It would work in my opinion - still needs a DM to make it happen though. This way though you also can get Donny as an 8 alongside Pogba - with Sancho also in the team it means we could control possession ala City far better too.

 

[Judas]

It's a total waste and his hold up play isn't good enough. He can't dictate from there, and if anything he'd get a bit lost I think.

 

[cyberman]

It's a total waste and his hold up play isn't good enough. He can't dictate from there, and if anything he'd get a bit lost I think.

False 9s aren't supposed to hold up the ball? That's just a striker.

 

[VP89]

He reminds me a bit of Lampard in that he's best coming from the 10 and bursting into the box as a chronic goalscorer. A false 9 wouldn't suit him.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

How about no.

 

[Judas]

False 9s aren't supposed to hold up the ball? That's just a striker.

He'd still need to do a bit of hold up play? It's a daft position and I've no idea why anyone would want to see us play with one.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

no

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He can do it but I prefer him in and around the channels, that's where a lot of his assists come from.

 

[RUCK4444]

The options are varied once we finally sign a top DM.

Not sure we would see the best of Bruno in this role though, he tends to come alive in the build up, a tad deeper.

 

[Skills]

Could be an option. Though I think it probably works better with Greenwood & Rashford rather than Sancho + Greenwood/Rashford

 

[cyberman]

He'd still need to do a bit of hold up play? It's a daft position and I've no idea why anyone would want to see us play with one.

Dont think so? They just drop deep and swamp the midfield. The entire point of a false 9 is that it doesn't give the CBs anybody to mark.
I agree, I never want us to play with one. Especially when we are so strong out wide, theres no point in playing a false 9 when we will stretch play wide so much.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

I think it could work, but its also dependant on your wingers right.. If you have Martial/Greenwood/Rashford it could work perfectly, as they would attach the spaces Bruno leaves when he drops deep, but Sancho for example is a real providing winger and would stay more wide..

It would make room to play with Donny as a midfielder who comes into the box as well, with Pogba as a playmaker and of of McFred for balance.. (assuming 442 diamond)

 

[Mickeza]

The options are varied once we finally sign a top DM.

Not sure we would see the best of Bruno in this role though, he tends to come alive in the build up, a tad deeper.

That’s exactly what a false 9 does. It’s a fancy phrase but it just means you don’t play with a traditional focal point in attack - the two CBs are marking nobody - if they don’t follow Bruno deep then we have an overload in CM - if they do then there’s space in behind.

 

[CM]

It could an option if we had an injury crisis or a game where we wanted to pack the midfield but I wouldn't particularly want to see it otherwise.

 

[RUCK4444]

That’s exactly what a false 9 does. It’s a fancy phrase but it just means you don’t play with a traditional focal point in attack - the two CBs are marking nobody - if they don’t follow Bruno deep then we have an overload in CM - if they do then there’s space in behind.

Well it depends I suppose on the interpretation of the phrase false 9, I get that it should be only one interpretation but personally I would expect a false to play further up than Bruno typically does.

The video posted further up shows a lot of Bruno doing his thing deeper than I’d expect a ‘false 9’ to be.

 

[Bondi77]

Let’s try Lindelof there instead

 

[R77]

If we're stacked anywhere it's the front four. We already have 7+ players for three of those positions, making Bruno a false nine as default would then mean the same amount of players for two positions. The odd game for tactical reasons, maybe, but as a regular thing it's problematic before even considering how he'd do there.

 

[Bebestation]

Id kind of want to see VDB playing the furthest up in this type of approach and having him link the two wide forwards and the 2 midfielders with his one two passing. He would also make the runs he did back at Ajax and Pogba and Bruno could pick him out. VDB can drop back to midfield and swap his position with the likes of Pogba and Bruno too.

Rashford - Greenwood
VDB
Shaw- Pogba-Bruno -AWB

- CDM -
Maguire -Varane
​

Kind of like a gung ho let the attackers have their freedom to do their job type of approach with the full backs joining them side at a time.

 

[Will Singh]

I don’t think so, Bruno is best as a #10 and to get it to work in a 3 man midfield with Pogba would mean we need a proper CDM with Pogba as a Box2Box and Bruno playing more advanced as a 10. He’s hold up play ain’t great to be a false 9 and he does lose the ball quiet a bit so no I can’t see it working!

 

[Oranges038]

Not AWB's biggest fan. But Trippier as a starting RB for Utd, I wouldn't even have him as backup.

It might work, but his influence on the team would be better in his no.10 role. Would be better off making sure the front three are comfortable being more fluid swapping flanks and moving positions. They should all be able to rotate between the 3 positons up there, if you add Bruno in to that then, they could rotate between the 4 positons.

 

[Maagge]

Pretty controversial I know, but I suggest we play Cavani as our central striker and then play Bruno in his best position.

 

[Oldyella]

No thanks. Moving our most effective player out of position feels like a big no no. Also, don't think he has the skill set for a false nine. No way he holds the ball up and plays others in with short quick passes.

 

[Mr Smith]

Theoretically it could work, but the problem is it would restrict Bruno somewhat from roaming wherever he wants, which is an important part of his game.

 

[KennyBurner]

Im not sure you understand the false 9 position at all. Bruno cant hold the ball and dribble long enough to draw out defenders. He needs to focus on our buildup as therein lies our main problems.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

We already have Martial doing this role in like every game he plays. If anything Bruno needs to go further back and no longer be a 10 but an 8.

 

[Berbasbullet]

It wouldn’t work.

 

[deleon]

It's something I've been thinking about since last season, but mainly because of our lack of a proper right winger then.

---RB---CB---CB---LB---
------------Poba------------
--McTominay--Fred--
--------Fernandes-------
Sancho------Rashford

Having Sancho now allows this to become a genuine 4-6-0 rather than a 4-4-2 diamond. Pogba nominally lines up as the deepest-lying midfielder but with little defensive responsibilities. From there he can orchestrate transitions before joining the attack.

Fernandes plays as a no. 10 rather than a false 9, relying on the midfielders behind him plus an inside-forward on the left to get into goalscoring positions. However, this formation is designed to get the most out of Pogba, and either Rashford or Martial. Two of these three might be on the move, while the other will be injured for a sustained period of time.

 

[Invictus]

On the whole, any team deploying a deep-lying forward needs to be excellently coached with respect to spatial awareness and synchronized positional play (all teams need that obviously, but its value is even more pronounced for successful False 9 interpretations); a large chunk of our best attacking and goal-scoring moves are a product of individual quality or simplistic but swiftly executed vertical attacks, so I dunno if this United team is fine-tuned in terms of the structure, patience and discipline required to pull that concept off on a consistently effective level. Furthermore, Bruno doesn't have two of the deadliest characteristics associated with great False 9s in his repertoire:

• Ball-carrying ability and ideally a turn of pace to keep the opposition defense on its toes à la Cruyff or Messi. Even in the pre-historic days, Hidegkuti was a converted winger.
• Functional hold-up play to create divergences when the center-backs are engaged as the False 9 isn't always supposed to drop deep in possession to free up the wide forwards.

Without those fundamentals to provide a degree of contrast and elusiveness in our base formula, it would be relatively easier for teams to game-plan and marginalize his threat as a deep-lying forward; not saying that Bruno couldn't do it, but there are some theoretical shortcomings. Also, he does some of his best work in non-forward positions as he can influence and organize multiple aspects of the team — putting him further up the pitch would be self-defeating from that sense (and at worst, make him a peripheral figure). With all of that in mind, we might be better served with the template of Bruno in midfield (rather than as a False 9 or even nominal second striker) + conventional center forward up top. So pretty close to the status quo when Cavani starts, with a couple of tweaks here and there to optimize stuff and make Bruno more central to the way the team operates.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

How about no.

no

As I say in the OP, I don’t even disagree

But can you explain your reasons rather than just doing that

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

As I say in the OP, I don’t even disagree

But can you explain your reasons rather than just doing that

fair enough:
1. Bruno isn't good at hold up play. Something essential for the role

2. Has never played the role.

3. He'd be on the periphery of the game given our style of play. It wouldn't suit him at all. He is better when involved in play.

4. We have other players who would suit the role better

 

[-Supreme-]

Martial is the only player in our squad that suits this role IMO.

 

[Ish]

I think we’d lose most of what makes his game impactful in that position

 

[bosnian_red]

Nah. He's an attacking midfielder who is more likely to play deeper than higher up. He doesn't really have the ability to hold the ball up which you'd need. Bruno is at his best with movement around him and him making runs off people, and I'd say he can be a #8 or #10 without any issues but not up top. I'd sooner try Pogba up top tbh. Anyway though we have Cavani/Martial/Greenwood and I don't like false 9 formations anyway.

Bruno's underlying stats are virtually identical to De Bruyne's though, with the added bit that Bruno is pretty much perfect at penalties. But their xG from open play wasn't a whole lot different, so I wouldn't view him as a Rooney level second striker goalscoring threat when he is more of a midfielder/playmaker than Rooney was but less a scorer (though still similar in their end effect).

 

[Desert Eagle]

On the whole, any team deploying a deep-lying forward needs to be excellently coached with respect to spatial awareness and synchronized positional play (all teams need that obviously, but its value is even more pronounced for successful False 9 interpretations); a large chunk of our best attacking and goal-scoring moves are a product of individual quality or simplistic but swiftly executed vertical attacks, so I dunno if this United team is fine-tuned in terms of the structure, patience and discipline required to pull that concept off on a consistently effective level. Furthermore, Bruno doesn't have two of the deadliest characteristics associated with great False 9s in his repertoire:

• Ball-carrying ability and ideally a turn of pace to keep the opposition defense on its toes à la Cruyff or Messi. Even in the pre-historic days, Hidegkuti was a converted winger.
• Functional hold-up play to create divergences when the center-backs are engaged as the False 9 isn't always supposed to drop deep in possession to free up the wide forwards.

Without those fundamentals to provide a degree of contrast and elusiveness in our base formula, it would be relatively easier for teams to game-plan and marginalize his threat as a deep-lying forward; not saying that Bruno couldn't do it, but there are some theoretical shortcomings. Also, he does some of his best work in non-forward positions as he can influence and organize multiple aspects of the team — putting him further up the pitch would be self-defeating from that sense (and at worst, make him a peripheral figure). With all of that in mind, we might be better served with the template of Bruno in midfield (rather than as a False 9 or even nominal second striker) + conventional center forward up top. So pretty close to the status quo when Cavani starts, with a couple of tweaks here and there to optimize stuff and make Bruno more central to the way the team operates.

Great post, completely agree.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Pretty controversial I know, but I suggest we play Cavani as our central striker and then play Bruno in his best position.