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- Apr 11, 2017
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Is there really such a thing as a new manager bounce? Does that really mean players who downed tools.
Good post.When he got the job he told them how wonderful they were and how they all deserved to be at United, which they needed to hear post Jose. Then they started getting complacent and certain players were phoning it in so he gave the team a bollocking and singled out individuals who hadn't been performing well enough, then they just reverted back to the shithouses they are.
Very good post. Gives some perspective honestly.I think we can look at the PSG home game as a turning point
PSG (h) - Both Martial and Lingard injured in the first half, suddenly our attack which had looked so good up till then broken up. First loss under Ole as well
Chelsea (a) - Great performance and result albeit against a side who were 'downing tools'
Liverpool (h) - More injuries, Matic the day before the game, Herrera and Rashford during the game, suddenly our midfield which had looked so good up till then broken up. OT atmosphere basically got us through the game
Palace (a) - Good result albeit against a team awful at home
Southampton (h) - Late winner, gave away 2 goals the start of our defence starting to creek again?
PSG (a) - Magical night made more so by the team we had to field (Matic, Herrera, Martial and Lingard all still injured. Pogba suspended)
Arsenal (a) and beyond - well we know what happens from here on out
There could be a valid argument that the reasons things started going to shit when the UCL started up again is (apart from the disruption to the starting XI) due to the extra midweek game. Less work on the training ground to focus on fitness, team shape and style of play and more of a focus on recovery and the opposition and I believe there's studies that prove players will naturally revert to type in these scenarios and that's why the high pressing has gone, the counter attacking has gone, the team shape has gone etc etc
Or of course it was all just a new manager bounce and the players aren't actually that good
I love the man. I'm only trying to be as critical of him as I have been of the people I blame even more. And he's very last on my list for a reason. If he's going to be successful, Ole will need to be as ruthless as he has hinted. That means selling some of the kids he may have adored as a youth team coach. Can't hang on to them foreverI hope you describing OGS as a "nepotistic knob" will come back to haunt you. How can you say that about a man that´s United through and through, took over a hopeless situation and gave us a glimpse of hope, has talked frankly about what he wants to do and has not had a preseason or transfer window yet? I agree with you on some (quite a lot) of the players but who do you think would have been able to get this group higher? The plain fact is that United have recruited very badly over a long period and OGS is left with that mess to sort out. I trust him more than Moyes,Van Gaal and that "great" manager that some think Mourinho is. He could not be botherd to unpack and stayed in a hotel showing clearly he was not in it all the way. OGS at least will give his all and I suspect he will surprise you.
I wouldn't have expected him to choose that same trio for the arsenal clash but considering how ineffective Matic and Pogba have been for different reasons for a lot of our games since that night, why not have dropped the two of them and used the other options to him in the past month or so.The PSG match wasn’t something we could build on, it was a fluke win, but the players did gave their all.
I think the main reason why Ole didn’t go with the same midfield against Arsenal was because McTominay was gassed after the PSG. match and needed a rest.
Exactly this.It hasn't gone wrong. It just went weirdly right for a while, then back to the expected level given the attitude and quality of the players. They just phoned it in more than ever this time round.
Yeah i think basically this...which is pretty damning on the players though, both on their mentality/loyalty and their fitness. We were the laziest team under Jose by quite a big margin, so you would imagine after playing half a season and running much less than pretty much everyone else, they should have some gas left in the tank.It’s been covered in other threads, but the general consensus seems to be a blend of the players stopped playing as soon as he got his contract, and we had to stop our new found pressing game because the players weren’t conditioned for it due to Jose’s different ideas about fitness and training.
This combined with some tactical ineptness from Ole.It hasn't gone wrong. It just went weirdly right for a while, then back to the expected level given the attitude and quality of the players. They just phoned it in more than ever this time round.
I'm sure this has been discussed but I didn't see a thread for it, so forgive me if one already exists.
Before I start I just want to say I am not bashing Ole, I adore the man, I just cannot wrap my head around how things could go from so good to so bad in the blink of an eye. Up until after the PSG game we were absolutely flying, we were playing attacking football, scoring goals and our top players were on song. However ever since that famous night in Paris we have fallen back into a state of misery that has followed us since Sir Alex retired, the football is rubbish, the results are bad and the future that looked so bright only a few months ago now looks as bleak as ever. How is this possible? I didn't expect us to be brilliant all season under Ole, but I certainly didn't expect this collapse either. Have the players stopped playing for Ole? Why play for him in the first place then. Have teams quickly started to figure out how to play against us? Has everyone just stopped caring? My mind is going crazy trying to figure out a reason for this madness.
Because many really thought he was the man to take us forward. For no sensible reason of course but still.It just typical caretaker manager syndrome, things are bad under the previous manager, some one new comes in gets a bounce but its doesn't last, happens all the time.
I don't know why people are so shocked that a guy who no one thought was good enough at Christmas is actually struggling to turn round which is probably the most difficult job in football right now.
doesn't matter. they haven't won in ages now. it's only cardiff... lose or maybe even draw... he could face sack.I genuinely hope you’re not a betting man, his job couldn’t be any more safe, the Cardiff match is completely meaningless.
Interesting. Do you have any links to these studies? Sounds logical. I refuse to believe that Ole is too incompetent to realise why the tactics actually worked in the early days, how it collapsed later, and that he did this out of his own will; all while a nobody like myself can see this. That's just stupid.Less work on the training ground to focus on fitness, team shape and style of play and more of a focus on recovery and the opposition and I believe there's studies that prove players will naturally revert to type in these scenarios and that's why the high pressing has gone, the counter attacking has gone, the team shape has gone etc etc
cardiff game is to save his job. and for someone like ole, moyes, hughes, etc, it's hard for them to come back when they get sacked from a title winning club, they usually end up managing teams like fullham, watford, huddersfield, etc, for the remainder of their managerial careers.
depending on which teams you are managing these days you don't get much time to turn things around
i'm sure he is facing sack already
I genuinely hope you’re not a betting man, his job couldn’t be any more safe, the Cardiff match is completely meaningless.cardiff game is to save his job. and for someone like ole, moyes, hughes, etc, it's hard for them to come back when they get sacked from a title winning club, they usually end up managing teams like fullham, watford, huddersfield, etc, for the remainder of their managerial careers.
depending on which teams you are managing these days you don't get much time to turn things around
i'm sure he is facing sack already
What are you on about? Phelan has literally been announced as assistant manager today.cardiff game is to save his job. and for someone like ole, moyes, hughes, etc, it's hard for them to come back when they get sacked from a title winning club, they usually end up managing teams like fullham, watford, huddersfield, etc, for the remainder of their managerial careers.
depending on which teams you are managing these days you don't get much time to turn things around
i'm sure he is facing sack already
and many are still refusing to admit it was a rash decision, going down the old he deserves a summer routine... yeah cos letting an obvious rash decision spend hundreds of millions sounds out of loyalty is much better idea then admitting you made a mistake....Because many really thought he was the man to take us forward. For no sensible reason of course but still.
cardiff game is to save his job. and for someone like ole, moyes, hughes, etc, it's hard for them to come back when they get sacked from a title winning club, they usually end up managing teams like fullham, watford, huddersfield, etc, for the remainder of their managerial careers.
depending on which teams you are managing these days you don't get much time to turn things around
i'm sure he is facing sack already
doesn't matter. they haven't won in ages now. it's only cardiff... lose or maybe even draw... he could face sack.
Lost the plot haha
I'd pin that on Jose. I remember Bailly's debut for us and I IIRC he was blowing out of his arse by the 75th minute after a supposed good pre-season. It wasnt accidental by Jose, he likes to play the same players all season long. If you're going to do that; you need plenty of horse placenta and PED's like Pep or, you need to take it easy on the players.Yeah i think basically this...which is pretty damning on the players though, both on their mentality/loyalty and their fitness. We were the laziest team under Jose by quite a big margin, so you would imagine after playing half a season and running much less than pretty much everyone else, they should have some gas left in the tank.
Go back and watch the first 5-6 games under Ole, we looked like a completely different team, pressing high and winning the ball in advanced positions and loads of offensive runs when we won the ball which is why Pogba did so well i imagine. The last 10 games or so, you could see we tried playing that way at the start of the games, but would fade out around the 15-20 minute mark and revert to the old zombie playing style we have seen a bit to much of over the years.
Players like Mata, Lukaku and Matic i think will have no place here next year if this is the style we want to play.
This has been the case for many many years. We just seem light years behind our rivals in so many aspects. Our players look weak, physically not fit enough and pick up injuries all the time. When was the last year we didn’t have an injury crisis month/2 months?I think that when Ole came in we were playing without expectations, so that allowed a certain level of freedom to our play. As soon as we beat PSG and the top 4 seemed like a realistic possibility everything went to pot because we've got a bunch of players who aren't mentally (and physically) capable of handling those situations and working as a team unit.
Also, our conditioning is awful, which has definitely not helped.
I will be amazed if the board let Ole spend hundreds of millions this summer. They will already be having doubts about him.and many are still refusing to admit it was a rash decision, going down the old he deserves a summer routine... yeah cos letting an obvious rash decision spend hundreds of millions sounds out of loyalty is much better idea then admitting you made a mistake....
Molde are one of the teams that runs the most in the Norwegian league, and a number of their players are in a really good physical condition(by the leagues standard). So expect our remaining players next season to improve in this area.This has been the case for many many years. We just seem light years behind our rivals in so many aspects. Our players look weak, physically not fit enough and pick up injuries all the time. When was the last year we didn’t have an injury crisis month/2 months?
We seriously have to look at our fitness and conditioning coaches and physios. It’s symbolic of the wider problem, we need the best in class in all areas of the club and whilst other clubs have been striving for that, we have slept for years.