How far United are from winning Champions League?

[Moiraine]

Just wondering how far we are at the moment. I know many will say that we need to qualify for it first but what if:-

1.We do qualify,
2. Pogba stays, signs new contract and starts playing well,
3. If we do sign our number one target i.e. Sancho,

what else do we need to be challanging for the Champions League title again? I would say one more midfielder and one central defender.

 

[charlenefan]

You should only really think about winning the UCL once you've mastered things domestically, if you haven't done that then ultimately you're looking at fluking your way through the tournament (which can happen with a lot of luck) like Chelsea did in 2012 and Spurs did (bar actually winning it) last year

So in answer to your question, miles off

 

[Moiraine]

You should only really think about winning the UCL once you've mastered things domestically, if you haven't done that then ultimately you're looking at fluking your way through the tournament (which can happen with a lot of luck) like Chelsea did in 2012 and Spurs did (bar actually winning it) last year

So in answer to your question, miles off

In terms of upgrading squad and players.

 

[Wayne's World]

Quite a few miles away, need about 8-9 players of quality to reach that level again

 

[JPRouve]

In terms of upgrading squad and players.

That's not how it works, you can't quantify it particularly when we haven't been close to be competitive in that competition since maybe 2012. Today we are far and when we will be close, you won't need to ask that question.

 

[royboy16]

Long way off.

 

[SAFMUTD]

We are 2 world class players (CDM and RW) and 4 good players (2 CMs, CAM, ST) and a manager away.


In the UCL you compete against the very best, and while there’s luck involved and sometimes odd things happen you need special players in key positions to win it.

As you said right now we are even in the top 4 of our own league, we are miles away to competing against the real candidates of the UCL (Real, Barca, Liverpool, Juve, Bayern, City).

all those teams have at least three special players, one by line that make the difference.

Real has Ramos, Modric, Kroos, Benzema
Barca has Ter Stegen, Busquets, Messi
Liverpool Allison, VVD, Salah, Mane
Bayern Alaba, Lewandowski, Gnabry
Juve Chiellini, Pjanic, Ronaldo
City KDB, Aguero, Sterling

meanwhile we have Pogba that maybe thw only one with the status to be mentioned with the ones above, but he doesnt always plays at his best. Also we have some good players that can eventually become great as the ones above like AWB, Rashford, Bruno, Martial. But right now we are not even top 10 candidates.

 

[Rozay]

We’d need to actually qualify for it first.

 

[Bilbo]

You should only really think about winning the UCL once you've mastered things domestically, if you haven't done that then ultimately you're looking at fluking your way through the tournament (which can happen with a lot of luck) like Chelsea did in 2012 and Spurs did (bar actually winning it) last year

So in answer to your question, miles off

Agree with this for the most part. I mean, it is a cup competition and many teams can win the Champions League, so United could be a season away or twenty . City are a marvellous team and have been for a few seasons now and they havent reached a final.

As you say, the real question is on how far away United are from what we consider to be dominance domestically, or at least dominance on a par with what we previously had. Personally I dont think we will ever see that. Our financial advantages have largely been eroded and Ferguson was a special manager.

This team has potential though. I'm convinced about that. If we take our recent form as a true indicator of where we are headed, then we are already a LOT better than we were this time last season, and the likelihood is that we will keep improving as this team grow together.

We are of course missing an ingredient or two, and everything is up in the air right now, but I can see a very serious title challenge coming in the next 2 years. Any kind of trophy in the meantime would be huge for this squad though. It's a huge shame that the season has petered out when we had a great chance in 2 competitions.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

We’d need to actually qualify for it first.

 

[choiboyx012]

Not too far. Luck is a huge part of winning a cup. I hate when people downplay a winner just because they aren’t champions In their domestic league. I give full credit to Chelsea 2012, real Madrid recently, and even Liverpool in 2005. I wouldn’t mind winning a CL no matter what position we are in the league. Our last 2 finals still hurt, and we really should have at least 5 CLs for a club our size.

 

[Handré1990]

Further than some, closer than others.

 

[TheReligion]

We are 2 world class players (CDM and RW) and 4 good players (2 CMs, CAM, ST) and a manager away.


In the UCL you compete against the very best, and while there’s luck involved and sometimes odd things happen you need special players in key positions to win it.

As you said right now we are even in the top 4 of our own league, we are miles away to competing against the real candidates of the UCL (Real, Barca, Liverpool, Juve, Bayern, City).

all those teams have at least three special players, one by line that make the difference.

Real has Ramos, Modric, Kroos, Benzema
Barca has Ter Stegen, Busquets, Messi
Liverpool Allison, VVD, Salah, Mane
Bayern Alaba, Lewandowski, Gnabry
Juve Chiellini, Pjanic, Ronaldo
City KDB, Aguero, Sterling

meanwhile we have Pogba that maybe thw only one with the status to be mentioned with the ones above, but he doesnt always plays at his best. Also we have some good players that can eventually become great as the ones above like AWB, Rashford, Bruno, Martial. But right now we are not even top 10 candidates.

6 players away and a manager?

 

[SAFMUTD]

6 players away and a manager?

Compare our starting XI to the champions squads of the last years, how many of our players would bench them?

thats how far we are.

 

[Cutch]

We could fluke it. Look at our record against the top sides this season, without ever having our best team out. We don't concede many goals and if we can lure Sancho we'll have a very exciting attack. Fernandes has improved everyone around him and we still have Pogba to come back who's barely played all season.

 

[Tom Cato]

We are 2 world class players (CDM and RW) and 4 good players (2 CMs, CAM, ST) and a manager away.


In the UCL you compete against the very best, and while there’s luck involved and sometimes odd things happen you need special players in key positions to win it.

As you said right now we are even in the top 4 of our own league, we are miles away to competing against the real candidates of the UCL (Real, Barca, Liverpool, Juve, Bayern, City).

all those teams have at least three special players, one by line that make the difference.

Real has Ramos, Modric, Kroos, Benzema
Barca has Ter Stegen, Busquets, Messi
Liverpool Allison, VVD, Salah, Mane
Bayern Alaba, Lewandowski, Gnabry
Juve Chiellini, Pjanic, Ronaldo
City KDB, Aguero, Sterling

meanwhile we have Pogba that maybe thw only one with the status to be mentioned with the ones above, but he doesnt always plays at his best. Also we have some good players that can eventually become great as the ones above like AWB, Rashford, Bruno, Martial. But right now we are not even top 10 candidates.

I mean, we beat Manchester City 3 times this season. Doesn't mean anything for the CL but obviosuly we can beat good teams these days.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I mean, we beat Manchester City 3 times this season. Doesn't mean anything for the CL but obviosuly we can beat good teams these days.

We beath them twice and lost to them in the cup. In the cup its not about winning a game its about advacing to the next round which we didn’t.

and its worth mentioning that City didnt even got to the semifinals in the last two editions, thats how hard is to win the UCL nowadays.

 

[TheReligion]

Compare our starting XI to the champions squads of the last years, how many of our players would bench them?

thats how far we are.

Spurs and Liverpool were in the final last year.. if you think we are 6 players and a new manager behind either of them you've lost your marbles.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Spurs and Liverpool were in the final last year.. if you think we are 6 players and a new manager behind either of them you've lost your marbles.

Liverpool is at least 5 players and a manager away from us currently. Spurs was a combination of good coaching and luck, they wont be getting that close anytime soon.

But tell me, according to you how far are we? If we are not that far how can we hadnt come even close in the last 8 years?

 

[TheReligion]

Liverpool is at least 5 players and a manager away from us currently. Spurs was a combination of good coaching and luck, they wont be getting that close anytime soon.

But tell me, according to you how far are we? If we are not that far how can we hadnt come even close in the last 8 years?

You keep asking me questions you think you know the answer of. The fact is we are closer than we have been for a very long time. A team with DDG, Maguire, AWB, Pogba, Bruno, Rashford is far from a million miles away especially when you see the squad to go with it we are assembling.

Again, we have beaten the likes of City twice this season, Chelsea three times, Spurs and then drawn with Liverpool. If we were in the CL I have no doubt we'd give a decent account of ourselves. We certainly don't need to replace 60% of our first eleven plus manager and coaching staff. Jesus wept

 

[SAFMUTD]

You keep asking me questions you think you know the answer of. The fact is we are closer than we have been for a very long time. A team with DDG, Maguire, AWB, Pogba, Bruno, Rashford is far from a million miles away especially when you see the squad to go with it we are assembling.

Again, we have beaten the likes of City twice this season, Chelsea three times, Spurs and then drawn with Liverpool. If we were in the CL I have no doubt we'd give a decent account of ourselves. We certainly don't need to replace 60% of our first eleven plus manager and coaching staff. Jesus wept

You mention Chelsea as if they were contestants or something, I agree we are closer now than we were but we still pretty far.

like I said we are not even top 10 favorites damn we aren’t even qualified for it, if it wasnt for city’s ban we would be 100% out for next year again.

 

[TheReligion]

You mention Chelsea as if they were contestants or something, I agree we are closer now than we were but we still pretty far.

like I said we are not even top 10 favorites damn we aren’t even qualified for it, if it wasnt for city’s ban we would be 100% out for next year again.

I just totally disagree with how far away you think we are, especially with the difference Bruno has made. Things look very promising. I don't get the negativity.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I just totally disagree with how far away you think we are, especially with the difference Bruno has made. Things look very promising. I don't get the negativity.

Its not negativity, but just look at the scenario. Bruno gets injured and we are back again to struggle to break low block teams. Thats why I mention 2 worldclass players, and 4 good ones. Not necessarily starters but I cant simply imagine a team starting Pereira or Lingard winning the champions league, and currently we are one injury away from that scenario.

now your turn,how many players do you think we need to win the UCL?

 

[TheReligion]

Its not negativity, but just look at the scenario. Bruno gets injured and we are back again to struggle to break low block teams. Thats why I mention 2 worldclass players, and 4 good ones. Not necessarily starters but I cant simply imagine a team starting Pereira or Lingard winning the champions league, and currently we are one injury away from that scenario.

now your turn,how many players do you think we need to win the UCL?

VVD gets injured and then what? You can say that about everyone. Teams win the CL with worse players picking up medals than Lingard and Andreas. Liverpool in 05 weren't great and neither were Chelsea when they won it in 12. When it gets to the knock out phase anything can happen. Just ask PSG when United made history (with a weaker team and squad) the previous season.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

We are 2 world class players (CDM and RW) and 4 good players (2 CMs, CAM, ST) and a manager away.


In the UCL you compete against the very best, and while there’s luck involved and sometimes odd things happen you need special players in key positions to win it.

As you said right now we are even in the top 4 of our own league, we are miles away to competing against the real candidates of the UCL (Real, Barca, Liverpool, Juve, Bayern, City).

all those teams have at least three special players, one by line that make the difference.

Real has Ramos, Modric, Kroos, Benzema
Barca has Ter Stegen, Busquets, Messi
Liverpool Allison, VVD, Salah, Mane
Bayern Alaba, Lewandowski, Gnabry
Juve Chiellini, Pjanic, Ronaldo
City KDB, Aguero, Sterling

meanwhile we have Pogba that maybe thw only one with the status to be mentioned with the ones above, but he doesnt always plays at his best. Also we have some good players that can eventually become great as the ones above like AWB, Rashford, Bruno, Martial. But right now we are not even top 10 candidates.

I agree with this 100% Ole is finding it hard enough to qualify for the CL let alone win it.

 

[SAFMUTD]

VVD gets injured and then what? You can say that about everyone. Teams win the CL with worse players picking up medals than Lingard and Andreas. Liverpool in 05 weren't great and neither were Chelsea when they won it in 12. When it gets to the knock out phase anything can happen. Just ask PSG when United made history (with a weaker team and squad) the previous season.

If VVD gets injured they play Gomez, its a big difference. But I get your point.

The fact you describe beating PSG as making history says it all, mate it was a great night and everything but we just got to the quaterfinals where we got our ass whoped by Barca.

What do you think its harder, to win the EPL or the UCL?

 

[bosnian_red]

Not a matter of personnel (after a few players). If we sign Sancho, our squad is very good all around. Add a better CB partner to Maguire to complete the 11 basically. Give it a couple years for everyone to progress and develop, Greenwood, Gomes, Sancho, Rashford etc, and the squad will be excellent all around. In 2-3 years time something like (obviously will be changed and some of the older guys will be different, but for the point...):

Rashford Greenwood Sancho
Pogba Bruno
McTominay
Shaw Maguire Upamecano AWB
De Gea

Martial Ighalo James
Fred Gomes
Matic
Williams Tuanzebe Lindelof Dalot
Henderson​

These 2 11s are more than good enough to compete for trophies once they develop more. Its complete and has cover everywhere and a good balance throughout, with enough top quality too. For us to seriously challenge for the premier league or champions league, we need a manager that can bring the squad up a level like what Klopp does for Liverpool or Pep does for City. They have world class squads, and managers to bring those up.

I love Ole, and really like what he's doing and he should stay on for now with the rebuild, but I dont think he'll ever get us to that top level. But should stay for now as we're finally feeling like we have a good group and feeling like ourselves again

 

[TheReligion]

If VVD gets injured they play Gomez, its a big difference. But I get your point.

The fact you describe beating PSG as making history says it all, mate it was a great night and everything but we just got to the quaterfinals where we got our ass whoped by Barca.

What do you think its harder, to win the EPL or the UCL?

I describe it as making history as that's what it was. No team in the history of the competition has come back from two goals down to win in that fashion.

 

[IrishGlen]

You could make a case that we could’ve won it this year had we qualified. Fantastic record in the big games and we’ve beaten the current favourites three out of four times this season. It would probably be remembered like Liverpool ‘05 / Chelsea ‘12 by the media / other fans but this team does have some big performances in it.

If you added Sancho, a DM say Thomas Partey, a top class CB say an in-form de Ligt and a left back then I feel we’d have a very good chance of winning it (luck of draw, referee, injuries, etc don’t adversely go against us)

The thing is that you look around Europe these days and you don’t really fear anyone. In the next few years, Klopp will be leaving Liverpool, City will be starting a rebuild without Guardiola, Ronaldo and Messi aren’t the same players, the likes of Ramos, Benzema, Marcelo, Casemiro, Modric leaving Real / Kroos getting on, Cavani and Silva leaving PSG, etc. Bayern look good to me though - Potentially Sané and Havertz coming in. There definitely seems to be more opportunity than say recently Bayern 12/13 followed by a 4 out of 5 Real Madrid with a MSN Barcelona the other year where even if we had a decent team the bar was set very high.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I describe it as making history as that's what it was. No team in the history of the competition has come back from two goals down to win in that fashion.

Im sure there have been more impressive come backs than that one, just the Liverpool against Barca and Barca against PSG come to mind.

 

[Infra-red]

It's a cup competition, so anything can happen, but there are at least 8 or 9 sides in Europe with a better chance than us of winning it (assuming we actually qualify for it again at some point soon).

 

[Remember the geese]

We are 3 or 4 signings and a bit of time for our youngsters to develop away from challenging for the lot.

 

[mshnsh]

To win the champions league we do not necessarily need to be the best team in europe.It is a knock out competition and tactics as well as luck play a big part but the necessary ingredient is a competitive team.

If you look at the recent past (last10 years) the only teams that won the UCL and can lay claim to be the best in europe for those seasons are barcelona in 2015 and 2011 as well as bayern in 2013. Liverpool last year i feel were debatably the best in europe. Madrid had alot of luck during their 3 consecutive wins as did chelsea in 2013. Inter in 2010 were excellent defensively.

So, what united need to be competitive at the highest level is a world class central defender, a proper central midfielder who can dictate games and a ruthless striker (personally i dont rate rashford) and also for the current players to improve their game.

 

[Gasolin]

Personally, I feel like we are 3 to 5 years away, but if we do a good transfer window this "summer", we could be back next year with a title challenge already, and we see from there. We will need at least 1 season of it to gauge ourselves against the other teams. So 3 years the earliest for me, and I think we are on some sort of 5 years plan.

 

[Stig]

How far are we from winning the champions league ?

Take the venue, measure how far that is from Manchester and that is your answer.
1295 miles

A long way. We are a long way from winning the champions league.

First we need to be the best team in Manchester.
Then we need to be the best team in Lancashire.

We are getting better, bit quite a way off.

 

[paraguayo]

You are not winning it with Ole. Unless all stars allign like when Chelsea won with Di Matteo who was same level manager.

 

[slyadams]

Things always look bleaker when you are behind. If we got top class CB, CM, Sancho and Pogba stays then we have a very good squad indeed, possibly not enough to top City/Liverpool in the league, but competitive in the CL, which is a cup competition ultimately.

 

[Gasolin]

You are not winning it with Ole. Unless all stars allign like when Chelsea won with Di Matteo who was same level manager.

Why? If anything, we are even better in big games and consistency will come with some good signings in the position we need to reinforce. I wouldn't underestimate Ole on this type of topics. He's bringing the mental strength needed at that level.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Why? If anything, we are even better in big games and consistency will come with some good signings in the position we need to reinforce. I wouldn't underestimate Ole on this type of topics. He's bringing the mental strength needed at that level.

To be fair we tend to play better under Ole when considered underdogs, but still is a long long shot from there to champions.

 

[SpyLuke10]

Sancho and a top class DM would bridge most of the gap imo. We are closer than people think.

I can see us winning it in 3-4 years with a best starting line up that looks something like this:

Henderson

Wan-Bissaka [New CB] Maguire (Shaw/Williams/[New Left Back])

[Top DM]
Bruno Grealish

Sancho Rashford
(Martial/Greenwood/[New Striker])

I think De Gea might be eclipsed by Henderson by then. Pogba, I'd be surprised if he was still at the club in 3-4 years so being an optimist I've anticipated that our transfer window next window can look something like this (IN: Sancho and Grealish, OUT: Pogba, etc). I'm not convinced Lindelof, Bailly or Tuanzebe will ultimately be good enough so hence I said [new CB]. I'm also unsure on Shaw and Williams, when it comes to contending for the CL.

All in all, based off that starting XI I put out, we are Sancho, Grealish, 2 defenders and a top DM away assuming 100% transfer signing success rate for the unknowns. 5 signings. 2-3 of them are possible next transfer window.