How good was Paul Scholes?

[Paxi]

Interesting comment when you consider how Scholes only became as good as Xavi due to a bunch of fake quotes and youtube videos of him hitting 60 yard hollywood passes to the wing.

I agree that Madrid wouldn't have signed Kroos if they had Scholes; I don't think one is necessarily an upgrade on the other. I'm not trying to argue that Scholes was bad or not world class. My only point of contention is that despite being in the same bracket as players like Kroos or Alonso (imo), he seems to get elevated far above that due to reasons (fake quotes, etc) other than his actual quality and performance level on the field.

You've never watched Scholes play have you? I think I’ve seen him have 2 bad games in my entire life watching football. Blackburn, where he gave the ball away for a goal on the edge of our box, and in CL, against Benfica, at Stadio de Luz when we went out at group stages. Both in 2004/5 iicr.

Nothing to do with fake quotes or YouTube highlights.

In fact, some of those quotes are real. It’s also well documented that both Xavi and another player asked for Scholes’ shirt after 2011 final. Just shows you what those guys thought of him.

Scholes is criminally underrated.

 

[POF]

This thread is absolutely crazy. I loved Scholes as a player. From the time he scored at Port Vale you could tell he had real quality about him and I was always frustrated when Fergie picked Butt ahead of him in his early years. As a young player he was a fantastic goal threat from midfield and as he got older, turned into a really good deep playmaker. He was a fantastic footballer with great technique and game intelligence.

But comparing him to a player like Xavi is just ridiculous. Xavi was the dominant midfield presence in one of the greatest teams of all time. A team that was based on possession and control in midfield. Scholes was not even the best midfield player at United in the Fergie era.

The treble team in 99 was a midfield dominated team. The undisputed best player in that team was Roy Keane. He ran that midfield and was a far better all round central midfield player than Scholes both at the time and at any stage in Scholes' career.

When Scholes was the main man in midfield it was the weakest area of the United side. Those teams were built on a world class defence and individual quality in attack (Ronaldo, Rooney, etc).

Scholes was never even the best player in the United team yet he's being compared with some of the all time greats? It really is bizarre.

 

[Infordin]

Which big games? He started in 2007-08 Cl finals, 35 year old Scholes was on bench in CL finals just like 34 year old Xavi was on bench in CL finals.

Was there any particular reason Scholes only came off the bench in this game? Honest question. I think that he started in big games from 2003-2008, but I remember SAF sometimes dropping him in the late 90s.

 

[roonster09]

Was there any particular reason Scholes only came off the bench in this game? Honest question. I think that he started in big games from 2003-2008, but I remember SAF sometimes dropping him in the late 90s.

Yeah, I remembered that game after I made the post. I don't know why he was dropped, maybe because he was defensively weak and we were 2 vs 3 against arguably at that time greatest midfield of that decade?

I don't think it's from 2003, even in 99-00 and 00-01, he played both games against Madrid and Bayern in knock out rounds.

Also in 1998-99 CL, he played all the 4 games against Barca and Bayern in group stage, fist leg against Inter which we lead 2-0 and also first leg vs Juventus. Only Juventus away was the game he was on the bench (I mean the game which we had to win). So I don't exactly remember the reason, maybe some old Caftards can shed some light on that.

 

[Infordin]

The treble team in 99 was a midfield dominated team. The undisputed best player in that team was Roy Keane. He ran that midfield and was a far better all round central midfield player than Scholes both at the time and at any stage in Scholes' career.

When Scholes was the main man in midfield it was the weakest area of the United side. Those teams were built on a world class defence and individual quality in attack (Ronaldo, Rooney, etc).

United had 58% possession in the 2008 Champions League final against Chelsea, while you had only 53% possession against Bayern in 1999, so I don't agree with the claim that United were more reliant on their midfield in 1999 than they were in 2008.

I personally rated Scholes higher than Keane as a player, but each to their own.

 

[stygg]

Zidane, Xavi and now Toni Kroos... Takes one to know one!

 

[redIndianDevil]

We are desperate for a Scholes type midfielder, finding him should be top priority than any other position, our midfield is far too weak and has no idea or skill to maintain possession especially against teams that press high up the pitch.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Was there any particular reason Scholes only came off the bench in this game? Honest question. I think that he started in big games from 2003-2008, but I remember SAF sometimes dropping him in the late 90s.

We had an insane schedule that season, rotation would have been key.

 

[cyril C]

Depending your yardstick really. I would rate Scholes a 1/10 on tackle, 2/10 on speed, 2/10 on header, 1/10 on bad temper, 1/10 on never look at opponent eye to eye. Other than that he is 10/10 on passing, 8/10 on possession and ball control, 8/10 on vision, 10/10 on controlling game tempo. A lot of fans see him a poor MF because he doesn't yell at his teammates or opponents, doesn't run like a dog and doesn't score goal every 2 games, but we all miss his game control and passing in particular. Fergi did what he can to extend his career but perhaps his 2nd career might have been bad to us, because young MF like Pogba was never given any chance, until Fergi could find a perfect replacement of Scholes. Until Fergi found Moyes who found Fellaini, the rest is history as they say.

Scholes should have no regret in his career, he has won no other player has won before, except for England of course. But then England never see his value.

 

[SkeppyRed]

2 out of 10 for Heading? Scholes scored some incredible headers in his career; against City, Chelsea and a late winner v Everton for example. Generated so much power through technique and neck muscles.

He also might have flown into tackles recklessly, which I loved and wish someone did on Sunday, but he also won possession back fairly on a regular basis also. Temper and not looking anyone in the eye are not just wrong but pretty weird things to give ratings on as well.

 

[Womp]

My favorite ever player, his passing range was absolutely magic.

 

[Hamadovich86]

Xavi is rightly recognized as one of the best of all time in his position, same with Pirlo and whether or not I agree with it Lampard and Gerrard are very highly regarded.

My main issue is that Scholes is simply swept under the rug like he was nothing, literally the only ones who rate him are United fans. Thats a severe footballing injustice because had he played for another team I am certain he would be rated more highly. This is what pisses me off, because he played for United, fans of other English teams shit on him.

Heres a fact, without him we would not have won all 11 league titles and 2 CLs. He was a superb passer of the ball, controlled the tempo of the team and contributed with a lot of goals and assists. Without a doubt he was a superb player regardless of what you think of other players from his era.

 

[Godfather]

I'd give my left bollock for a player like him in our team.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Depending your yardstick really. I would rate Scholes a 1/10 on tackle, 2/10 on speed, 2/10 on header, 1/10 on bad temper, 1/10 on never look at opponent eye to eye. Other than that he is 10/10 on passing, 8/10 on possession and ball control, 8/10 on vision, 10/10 on controlling game tempo. A lot of fans see him a poor MF because he doesn't yell at his teammates or opponents, doesn't run like a dog and doesn't score goal every 2 games, but we all miss his game control and passing in particular. Fergi did what he can to extend his career but perhaps his 2nd career might have been bad to us, because young MF like Pogba was never given any chance, until Fergi could find a perfect replacement of Scholes. Until Fergi found Moyes who found Fellaini, the rest is history as they say.

Scholes should have no regret in his career, he has won no other player has won before, except for England of course. But then England never see his value.

2 out of 10 for Heading? Scholes scored some incredible headers in his career; against City, Chelsea and a late winner v Everton for example. Generated so much power through technique and neck muscles.

He also might have flown into tackles recklessly, which I loved and wish someone did on Sunday, but he also won possession back fairly on a regular basis also. Temper and not looking anyone in the eye are not just wrong but pretty weird things to give ratings on as well.

About half his goals for England were with his head.

Scholes was fantastic in the air, especially for a 5ft 6in midfielder.

 

[VivaObertan]

At the game on Sunday I was saying to my mate that if Scholes was playing all of a sudden our team would have looked a lot more composed and City would have had to stop their Barca lite pressing.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Look at it this way, We would have been far more competitive in midfield had we had him on Sunday. Not saying we would have won but we would have looked a lot closer

 

[2cents]

Yeah, I remembered that game after I made the post. I don't know why he was dropped, maybe because he was defensively weak and we were 2 vs 3 against arguably at that time greatest midfield of that decade?

I don't think it's from 2003, even in 99-00 and 00-01, he played both games against Madrid and Bayern in knock out rounds.

Also in 1998-99 CL, he played all the 4 games against Barca and Bayern in group stage, fist leg against Inter which we lead 2-0 and also first leg vs Juventus. Only Juventus away was the game he was on the bench (I mean the game which we had to win). So I don't exactly remember the reason, maybe some old Caftards can shed some light on that.

We had an insane schedule that season, rotation would have been key.

He didn't start against Inter away either, Ronny Johnsen took his place. Nothing to do with rotation, Fergie simply didn't trust Scholes in those away games at that stage in his career.

As usual, the Scholes discussion here seems to be proceeding on the assumption that the Scholes of 2006 onwards was the same player as the 97-04 player, when they were actually quite different.

 

[careca07]

Scholes is the best player I've ever seen in the flesh, bar none. Watching games on TV didn't really do him justice; when you went to a match you would see how the old cliche of one player running a game was totally true in his case. Because we were generally the dominant force in most games he rarely had to defend (a good thing because he couldn't tackle) but he was the conduit for every attack we launched, and between '95 and 2012 there was a lot of attacking going on. His vision, passing, movement and long-range shooting were astonishing.

 

[John Blund]

How good was Scholes?
Well, he retired in 2011. 7 months later, he made a comeback due to our injury crisis, and he still could dictate the tempo in every game he played. Remember Rooney's Hollywood hoofers when he tried to dictate play? Scholes did that on first touch, and he actually created chances. He was much like Xavi and perhaps Pirlo. They all knew what to do with the ball before they got it, and they made it all look so easy. No trickery, just pure class.

While we're on it: That Ronny Johnsen performance was probably his best performance in our shirt, if I remember correctly.

 

[Oooh_aaah_cantona]

Great player but starting to get quite a bit overrated since his retirement, especially by United fans.

Comfortably better than Scholes: Xavi, Iniesta, Modric

Comparable to Scholes: Alonso, Pirlo, Gerrard, Kroos, Silva, Schweinsteiger, Busquets

Haha I don’t think you are far wrong. But this opinion would be thrashed by everyone here. Scholes is the demigod midfield player. The GoAT in fact here.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Interesting comment when you consider how Scholes only became as good as Xavi due to a bunch of fake quotes and youtube videos of him hitting 60 yard hollywood passes to the wing.

Just because that's how you watched him, doesn't mean to say that's how others do.

Many here grew up watching him play, and saw how dire we were in midfield after he retired.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Why does this question keep being asked?

 

[simplyared]

Tony Kross was asked who was the best midfielder: Lampard, Gerrard or Scholes.
His answer: Scholes
Just for the record.

 

[Dante]

I'd give my left bollock for a player like him in our team.

And I'd give your right bollock for a player like Keane. Imagine that pair slapping around the City midfielders.

 

[Dobbs]

Interesting comment when you consider how Scholes only became as good as Xavi due to a bunch of fake quotes and youtube videos of him hitting 60 yard hollywood passes to the wing.

I agree that Madrid wouldn't have signed Kroos if they had Scholes; I don't think one is necessarily an upgrade on the other. I'm not trying to argue that Scholes was bad or not world class. My only point of contention is that despite being in the same bracket as players like Kroos or Alonso (imo), he seems to get elevated far above that due to reasons (fake quotes, etc) other than his actual quality and performance level on the field.

His elevation could be down to scoring as many goals in his first four seasons as Kroos has in his entire career. Little things like that.

 

[mancan92]

Like @RooneyLegend said, teams dominate, not individuals. Are you going to tell us Suarez, Benzema are better than Ronaldo as Ronaldo never won CL?

No because Ronaldo dominated world cups and decided some of the biggest game.

Scholes never had the big game performances that those other players had.

 

[Baby Groot]

We are all talking about how much we have struggled since Fergie left but the real reason we have been struggling in past few years since is because Scholes quietly retired in 2013 for the second time.

 

[Baby Groot]

How good was Scholes?
Well, he retired in 2011. 7 months later, he made a comeback due to our injury crisis, and he still could dictate the tempo in every game he played. Remember Rooney's Hollywood hoofers when he tried to dictate play? Scholes did that on first touch, and he actually created chances. He was much like Xavi and perhaps Pirlo. They all knew what to do with the ball before they got it, and they made it all look so easy. No trickery, just pure class.

While we're on it: That Ronny Johnsen performance was probably his best performance in our shirt, if I remember correctly.

Only the greatest retire on top, make comback and still retire on top. If you ask me its just criminal that Giggs have more titles to his name.

 

[Baxter]

Still remember this. Came on, and absolutely took the piss. What a player.

 

[XH6]

You've never watched Scholes play have you? I think I’ve seen him have 2 bad games in my entire life watching football. Blackburn, where he gave the ball away for a goal on the edge of our box, and in CL, against Benfica, at Stadio de Luz when we went out at group stages. Both in 2004/5 iicr.

Nothing to do with fake quotes or YouTube highlights.

In fact, some of those quotes are real. It’s also well documented that both Xavi and another player asked for Scholes’ shirt after 2011 final. Just shows you what those guys thought of him.

Scholes is criminally underrated.

I'll take this with a grain of salt considering you believe Rashford is on par with Mbappe.

 

[meamth]

Finally. I can post again.

Paul Scholes is the epitome of complete football player. Yes his sliding tackle was lacking.
But all of his attacking and defensive qualities are up there with the best. Basically his football brain is at the level of football gods.

Over exaggeration aside, Paul Scholes is the benchmark for so many top professionals. He is one of the greatest footballer in space and time. No more doubts whose better.

 

[Striker10]

If I was going to create a team to take on a peak Barcelona say, I would have Keane alongside Scholes. Scholes was top quality. It's not even a discussion. Sadly Giggs and Scholes were older when they got to face them but quality.

 

[BennyBlanco]

United had 58% possession in the 2008 Champions League final against Chelsea, while you had only 53% possession against Bayern in 1999, so I don't agree with the claim that United were more reliant on their midfield in 1999 than they were in 2008.

I personally rated Scholes higher than Keane as a player, but each to their own.

It's a bit unfair of a comparisson, United had their first choice midfield suspended for the 99 final and using one single games statistics to conclude a point on an entire era is also a bit unfair.

Edit
Also to the point Re;Juve away, he wasn't as well rounded a mid at that point in his career, he'd only been converted from a forward the season before, (keane cruciate) and Butt was far more a defensively aware choice for a european away leg back then.

 

[Paxi]

I'll take this with a grain of salt considering you believe Rashford is on par with Mbappe.

You can take however you want it.

 

[Paxi]

Still remember this. Came on, and absolutely took the piss. What a player.

Absolutely brilliant.

 

[Fridge chutney]

You can take however you want it.

Ignore him. His opinion is based off YouTube.

 

[Paxi]

Interesting comment when you consider how Scholes only became as good as Xavi due to a bunch of fake quotes and youtube videos of him hitting 60 yard hollywood passes to the wing.

I agree that Madrid wouldn't have signed Kroos if they had Scholes; I don't think one is necessarily an upgrade on the other. I'm not trying to argue that Scholes was bad or not world class. My only point of contention is that despite being in the same bracket as players like Kroos or Alonso (imo), he seems to get elevated far above that due to reasons (fake quotes, etc) other than his actual quality and performance level on the field.

"My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder. Scholes is undoubtedly the greatest midfielder of his generation" – Zinedine Zidane

"For me, it's Paul Scholes. He'll do ridiculous things in training like say: 'You see that tree over there?' – it'll be 40 yards away – 'I'm going to hit it.' And he'll do it. Everyone at the club considers him the best" – Rio Ferdinand

"Paul Scholes would have been one of my first choices for putting together a great team – that goes to show how highly I have always rated him. An all-round midfielder who possesses quality and character in abundance" – Marcello Lippi

"I tell anyone who asks me – Scholes is the best English player" – Laurent Blanc

"Without any doubt the best player in the Premiership has to be Paul Scholes. He knows how to do everything, and he is the one who directs the way his team plays. On top of that, he has indestructible mental strength, and he is a genuine competitor" – Thierry Henry

"People say he is a great player, but you have to define what a great player is. For me, it is a player who has a bottom level that means his worst performance is not noticed. If he is having a bad game, a team-mate might feel Paul Scholes is not quite on his game, but a spectator wouldn't notice. Scholes, of all the players I have played with, has the highest bottom level. His reading of the game is unsurpassed. He has an eye for a pass, for what the play or the game needs at that precise moment, that I have never seen anyone else have. He controls and distributes the play and the game better than anyone I have ever seen" – Peter Schmeichel

"Everyone of us should emulate him. We can all learn from Paul Scholes" – Edgar Davids

"I have no hesitation in putting a name to the embodiment of all that I think is best about football. It's Paul Scholes. Many great players have worn the shirt of Manchester United. Players I worshipped, then lost with my youth in Munich. Players like Denis Law and George Best who I enjoyed so much as team-mates and now, finally, players I have watched closely in the Alex Ferguson era. And in so many ways Scholes is my favourite. I love his nous and conviction that he will find a way to win, to make the killer pass or produce the decisive volley. When a game reaches a vital phase, these qualities seem to come out of his every pore. He's always on the ball, always turning on goal. He's always looking to bring other people into the action and if he loses possession you think he must be ill" – Sir Bobby Charlton

Bunch of fake quotes eh?

 

[Paxi]

2 out of 10 for Heading? Scholes scored some incredible headers in his career; against City, Chelsea and a late winner v Everton for example. Generated so much power through technique and neck muscles.

He also might have flown into tackles recklessly, which I loved and wish someone did on Sunday, but he also won possession back fairly on a regular basis also. Temper and not looking anyone in the eye are not just wrong but pretty weird things to give ratings on as well.

Scored a cracking headed goal against Zenit as well.

 

[Paxi]

Sensational player.

 

[Luciano Venturini]

If Scholes was Spanish he would have been adored by the English fans and media. Same goes for Carrick.

I seem to have the Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard debate over and over again. English football culture loves "the worker" and the love affair with Gerrard amongst many football fans carries on due to his all action style. I've even had a grown man claim he would rather have a prime Scott Parker in his team over Scholes due to the fact that he "always gave 100%" "fought for the team" and "smashed people". This attitude is unfortunately replicated among the majority.

We, as fans, can only go on what we see and by the numbers these players post (goals, assists, passes etc). The people who have played the game and worked their whole lives in and around elite level football all answer Paul Scholes. For me that's enough to solidify how good he was.