He thrived in chaos, which Pepe is (correctly) against. Would have scored some massive goals for a Juve or Atletico and maybe won them one the finals they lost.
How good was peak Thomas Müller?
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Canagel
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Decent but not world class.
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Are you on a wind up? Muller had his best goal scoring season and assist under Pep. He is the definition of a pep player. No player in world football understood Space and how to use it like muller. Pep in his first season couldn't figure out how to fit him in but once he did, everything went up a notch for both pep and muller.One of the most overrated players of all time. Bayern's Pedro Rodriguez. When you have prime Robben and Ribery on the flanks and a striker infront of you occupying the centerbacks of course you gonna chip in some goals. Pep benched him for a reason.
Muller is the player that you ignore, someone in the thread said typical german, yep. No flair no dribbling just effective.. Top Goal scorer at 2010 world cup, joint top in 2014 only one trophy missing is euros. He was a key member apart of that German squad and apart of Bayern treble winning squad.
AltiUn
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Thomas Muller is the most alright player to have ever kicked a football. I'll be honest though he was pretty dull to watch.
Andersonson
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Fantastic player. Very underrated due to his style. Doesnt look pretty on the eye, but his technique is was effective and sublime at times.
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His resume and record in big tournies suggests he's anything but decent. But watching him, I could never see greatness in many parts of his game. Best example of how to maximise ones ability and achieve great things.Decent but not world class.
Snow
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Highly intelligent player as in he understands football and could therefor make up for his physical deficiencies, namely pace and agility, by intelligent off the ball movement and general positioning. To explain it in layman's terms, if you were to look at his Football Manager attributes it would be stacked in the middle.
Who were Germany's Ribery and Robben and striker in front of him that caused him to score all those goals when he took the golden and silver boot at different World Cups earning himself a gold and bronze medal in the process? Note, in the Bundesliga he has more assists than goals.
Müller was consistently a top 20 player in the world for years, that's a fact.
This comparison doesn't make sense. Pedro was pivotal in Pep's Barca side and was brought into the squad and not benched. Pep also plays a single style only and has to buy players to fit that style which is the reason Müller was benched. It's not like Pep's Bayern's team was better than the previous teams which Müller played in.One of the most overrated players of all time. Bayern's Pedro Rodriguez. When you have prime Robben and Ribery on the flanks and a striker infront of you occupying the centerbacks of course you gonna chip in some goals. Pep benched him for a reason.
Who were Germany's Ribery and Robben and striker in front of him that caused him to score all those goals when he took the golden and silver boot at different World Cups earning himself a gold and bronze medal in the process? Note, in the Bundesliga he has more assists than goals.
Müller was consistently a top 20 player in the world for years, that's a fact.
Sir Scott McToMinay
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People seem to underrate his importance in the WC win, he was the most dangerous attacker in that team, goals win you football matches.
Canagel
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His trophy cabinet is stacked but I never saw anything special in him as individual . Not even close to be 3rd best behind Messi, Ronaldo and Lacks the talent to be on the top tier with Neymar, Suarez, Hazard, Griezmann etc the players capable to win the game by themselves. Not as good as Ribery and Robben in his own team. A decent and handy player for the system but never world class.His resume and record in big tournies suggests he's anything but decent. But watching him, I could never see greatness in many parts of his game. Best example of how to maximise ones ability and achieve great things.
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SambaBoy
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Never really understood him as a player at one point watching for Bayern. As people have mentioned, no distinguishable attributes but yet his stats are really good.
Then I went the WC in 2014 and somehow in the ballot, pulled out 4 Germany Games. All the 3 group stage games and the France QF. Watching him then you understood what made him such an asset. His appreciation of the game, his movement, his awareness of team-mates. Sometimes he wouldn't touch the ball or be involved for a lot of the games but when he did it usually ended in a goal or him playing a key part in the build up to an attack.
Then I went the WC in 2014 and somehow in the ballot, pulled out 4 Germany Games. All the 3 group stage games and the France QF. Watching him then you understood what made him such an asset. His appreciation of the game, his movement, his awareness of team-mates. Sometimes he wouldn't touch the ball or be involved for a lot of the games but when he did it usually ended in a goal or him playing a key part in the build up to an attack.
Charlie Foley
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He was better than Ozil at the 2014 World CupThat's quite a stretch, isn't it?
Robben, Ribery, Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Kroos and Neuer were clearly better than him IMO, Alaba and Boateng at least on the same level.
For Germany, there are also Özil, Hummels and Reus on top of that.
Art Vandelay
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That can't be true. It feels like he's played in every World Cup and Euro's since the 80's.Only 3 years older than Lingard. Incredible really, it seems like he's been around for ages!
His positioning and forward movement is as good as I've seen.
Brilliant player. Put a shift in and you could rely on him to find the net.
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Remarkably intelligent player as others have said and always felt he was quite versatile in what he could do during a game.
Sort of astounded me he's only 29 though - assumed he was like 32/33 now.
Sort of astounded me he's only 29 though - assumed he was like 32/33 now.
RedFish
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Ridiculously good. Like....wtf good.
giorno
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Guardiola dropped him because he likes to rotate. Muller was near the top in games started and minutes played every season. And bayern was considerably better with him than without. Still are at that
poleglass red
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Very effective player in very good teams. Not easy on the eye but reliable.
Casanova85
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Greatest Second Striker/Link with MF of his generation, but fizzled after 2014. Also, an overall weird, unlikeable bloke. As unlikeable as Robben, but at least he didn't make smug smiles.
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BBRBB
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A great player, unconventional enough that you always wondered if he was underrated or overrated. Probably in a similar bracket as Griezmann.
means Muller is still young and learning? Didnt see him posting any videos in recent times though.Only 3 years older than Lingard. Incredible really, it seems like he's been around for ages!
His positioning and forward movement is as good as I've seen.
GhastlyHun
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Unlikable is up to anyone's personal preferences, but weird? There is no more down to earth and normal guy in professional football.Greatest Second Striker/Link with MF of his generation, but fizzled after 2014. Also, an overall weird, unlikeable bloke. As unlikeable as Robben, but at least he didn't make smug smiles.
Nah, they're just the most obvious part of what winsyou football games. Müller was a good player but also a real liability throughout large proportions of a match, especially if he didn't score. Of course he made up for it but you can't ignore that if you compare him to world class players. In all honesty, he wouldn't even be in my top 5 German player list of his generation. Kroos, Özil, Hummels, Neuer, Boateng and Reus were clearly better and more important players, both peak-wise and overall.People seem to underrate his importance in the WC win, he was the most dangerous attacker in that team, goals win you football matches.
Apart from the final in which Özil was among the best, yes, but that's more or less everything speaking for Müller above Özil. Müller is much more popular and likeable than Özil and as a goal scorer he's a favourite of all those people who really follow football once every two years which means the public is much more forgiving towards him. But if you really compare both's contributions on national level, it is pretty clear who was better.He was better than Ozil at the 2014 World Cup
Sir Scott McToMinay
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Hummels is the most overrated CB in the last 10 years, Boateng is close second, to each their own I suppose.Nah, they're just the most obvious part of what winsyou football games. Müller was a good player but also a real liability throughout large proportions of a match, especially if he didn't score. Of course he made up for it but you can't ignore that if you compare him to world class players. In all honesty, he wouldn't even be in my top 5 German player list of his generation. Kroos, Özil, Hummels, Neuer, Boateng and Reus were clearly better and more important players, both peak-wise and overall.
Boateng from 2014 to 2016 had the highest peak of all CBs of his generation. Was very hard to beat on the ground and in the air, very fast for a player of his size and had an even better build up than Bonucci and Hummels. His peak was rather short though. Hummels was absolutely world class, too. You underestimate the importance of ball playing CBs. There's a reason why there are very few old school defenders out there. Winning the ball doesn't help much if you can't retain it or even worse, lose it in dangerous positions.Hummels is the most overrated CB in the last 10 years, Boateng is close second, to each their own I suppose.
hasanejaz88
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Love Muller and what he's done not only for Germany but also Bayern. A world class player, definitely, and a top 10 attacking player at his peak (2012-2016). Consistent goalscorer, assist provider and, notably, a big game player for both Germany and Bayern.
Even in his last few years, when people have said he's performances have been poor he's still managed 84 goals + assists in 132 matches, which is pretty good for an attacking midfielder.
One of my favourite German players of all time. Fantastic as a player but also as a person on the pitch, energy and never say die attitude.
Even in his last few years, when people have said he's performances have been poor he's still managed 84 goals + assists in 132 matches, which is pretty good for an attacking midfielder.
One of my favourite German players of all time. Fantastic as a player but also as a person on the pitch, energy and never say die attitude.
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Reus more important than Muller over the last 10 years? Really? What has he done of note or Germany or for club that compares to what Muller has done? It's like chalk and cheese.Nah, they're just the most obvious part of what winsyou football games. Müller was a good player but also a real liability throughout large proportions of a match, especially if he didn't score. Of course he made up for it but you can't ignore that if you compare him to world class players. In all honesty, he wouldn't even be in my top 5 German player list of his generation. Kroos, Özil, Hummels, Neuer, Boateng and Reus were clearly better and more important players, both peak-wise and overall.
Well, due to his injuries it's fair to say that Reus was less important than Müller, that's true. But he's still clearly a better player.Reus more important than Muller over the last 10 years? Really? What has he done of note or Germany or for club that compares to what Muller has done? It's like chalk and cheese.
adexkola
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How was he a liability? Did he give the ball away more often? Did he make defensive errors?Nah, they're just the most obvious part of what winsyou football games. Müller was a good player but also a real liability throughout large proportions of a match, especially if he didn't score. Of course he made up for it but you can't ignore that if you compare him to world class players. In all honesty, he wouldn't even be in my top 5 German player list of his generation. Kroos, Özil, Hummels, Neuer, Boateng and Reus were clearly better and more important players, both peak-wise and overall.
Welbeckham
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Very underrated. Football isn’t about making things look aesthetically pleasing, it’s about being technically and physically talented, smart and determined. Saying he was never world class is ridiculous, because there was a time when he probably would’ve started for every single club in the world.
Second best player in the world in terms of his combination of attacking movement and desire. Only Ronaldo surpassed him there.
The rest of his game was pretty dime-a-dozen, but it shows how far a player can come just by being smarter and more cunning than anyone else on the pitch. I wanted us to sign him so badly when LvG was here. I think he would have made a huge difference. Our sinfully boring possession play might have actually gone somewhere with a forward like Müller to find and exploit the gaps in the opposition.
The rest of his game was pretty dime-a-dozen, but it shows how far a player can come just by being smarter and more cunning than anyone else on the pitch. I wanted us to sign him so badly when LvG was here. I think he would have made a huge difference. Our sinfully boring possession play might have actually gone somewhere with a forward like Müller to find and exploit the gaps in the opposition.
GhastlyHun
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Say only people who have watched him play for around two and a half games.Great goal scorer, but that's about it.
At his best, he improved both the attack and defense by his spatial awareness. For many seasons, he assisted around as many goals as he scored, only in Pep's last season he mainly scored. He still created dozens of chances for his team mates, but they were converted less frequently, either because the team's finishing or his setups were worse than in previous seasons.
This article from december 2015 has some good stats about this, and also puts an end to the nonsense that Müller didn't thrive under Pep / Pep not knowing what to do with him:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...as-mullers-201415-stats-to-his-201516-numbers