Yes, and some players are difficult to discuss in relation to others because their position was rather unique. What was Iniesta's position, for instance? Would he work as an 8 in any other team than Barca, or was he a ten, or even a wide player... who knows - his stats are not that impressive, but he was a damn good player - one of my all time favourites to watch. Messi did play as an AM for a while and was probably the best player in the world in that position as well, so yeah, nailing down a position can be difficult. Was Ronaldo a forward or a winger for RM?
How good was Ryan Giggs?
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Remember watching him at OT against Juventus once, when Juventus were one of the top sides in Europe and United were struggling to get back up there.
In both halves he was a cut above every other United player on the pitch and as good as anyone on the Juve side.
In both halves he was a cut above every other United player on the pitch and as good as anyone on the Juve side.
Agree. That's why it's difficult comparing him to Robben who played as an inverted wide forward - the roles are very different. I very much doubt Robben would do Giggs' role as well, but I do think Giggs would be brilliant as an inverted RW in the modern game, although you would remove some of those amazing 40-50 yard runs with the ball that he had.
He’s hardly going to admit it.
Just a coincidence he quit when they were playing him out of position while he was playing with the strongest team in England.
Scholes has said it multiple times in interviews, his playing career is long over, he has no reason these days to say anything other than the real reason
Giggs as a modern wide forward would probably be how he was used now but for me it is such a boring use of his skillset. He was a mediocre finisher, always more focused on creating for others and reducing him to cut in and shoot spam, ugh. Develop him centrally and he becomes a one man destroyer of pressing systems who takes the ball from the edge of his own box to the edge of the opposition box in seconds. Even at 37/38 midfielders couldn't live with his change of pace.
His goal record is very much on par with Figo's, probably better given that he didn't take pens until very late in his career and played at a consistently higher level.
Figo 137 in 792 with 35 pens 792/102= 1 in 7.8
Giggs 168 in 963 with 5 pens 963/163= 1 in 5.9
Giggs had more career assists as well, at club level at least.
His goal record is very much on par with Figo's, probably better given that he didn't take pens until very late in his career and played at a consistently higher level.
Figo 137 in 792 with 35 pens 792/102= 1 in 7.8
Giggs 168 in 963 with 5 pens 963/163= 1 in 5.9
Giggs had more career assists as well, at club level at least.
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That’s a great shout!
I still think its a blemish on his stellar career just like it is Keanes for missing the 02 WC with Ireland.
I think he's overrated(at least on forums with a good number of British people) because of how long he remained as a good player.
His game in his prime can be resumed by: "Run, Forrest, run!". He was similar to 2003/2006 C. Ronaldo, but without the stupid tricks and with a bit better crossing. Later, he became a solid CM, but nothing special in comparison to other in the same position at other big clubs.
I don't expect to become popular with this post, but it's my honest opinion.
His game in his prime can be resumed by: "Run, Forrest, run!". He was similar to 2003/2006 C. Ronaldo, but without the stupid tricks and with a bit better crossing. Later, he became a solid CM, but nothing special in comparison to other in the same position at other big clubs.
I don't expect to become popular with this post, but it's my honest opinion.
i cant think of many young players who excited as much. in the first 5 years his skill set was incredible. Scorer of some unbelievable goals yet was the perfect team player. Maybe rooney in this country over the last 30 years could stand alongside at that age.
giggs got you off your seat every time he got the ball as you knew he was going to go for the throat of the full back.
I rate giggs higher than scholes and beckham from that 90s team. an outstanding player.
people throw his longevity at him as a negative...at any point he wasnt useful to SAF he would have been sold...yet there was never any sign of selling him for over 20yrs.
giggs got you off your seat every time he got the ball as you knew he was going to go for the throat of the full back.
I rate giggs higher than scholes and beckham from that 90s team. an outstanding player.
people throw his longevity at him as a negative...at any point he wasnt useful to SAF he would have been sold...yet there was never any sign of selling him for over 20yrs.
Well it's your opinion and you are entitled to it but no one on this forum will ever take posts you make seriously
I still struggle to understand how people on here reconcile the perception of Scholes being world class with Scholes being pushed away from his preferred position by other players when playing for England.
This forum also famously hosts a thread comparing Mbappe to Rashford.
I remebered it vividly that guys like Deco and Seedorf were higher rated than Scholes(much higher in the case of Deco) circa 2003-2006. I never heard anyone claiming he was better than any of the biggest midfielder names of PL at that time. Somehow, after his retiring, he became one of the best of all time in his position, and you can even read here that he was at the same bracket as the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Modric, Pirlo, etc.
I understand the feeling: you support one of the biggest clubs in the world, so how the hell the best players of your glorious periods weren't the best? Well, they weren't.
I'm not trying to be an asshole(well, a bit in my post on Giggs), but I really appreciate football and find very annoying when people overrate players and, therefore, detract the legacy of others(putting Scholes at the same level of Xavi is an offense to the latter, as is putting Giggs on par with Figo or saying the Beckham should have won over Rivaldo in 99).
Are you a United fan? Since I was old enough to properly watch football from about 2007 onwards I wouldn't have swapped Scholes for anyone. Did you watch United regularly? I don't think many United fans would have swapped him either. He is no more highly rated now than when he was playing. He totally controlled games. There's no real point comparing him to Xavi as they played in totally different teams, but if you were to swap them then I think he would easily be as highly rated as Xavi and Xavi's stock would go way down.
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Come back to us when you understand football a bit better.
Scholes isnt quite Xavi's lvl imo, but Xavi was on the verge of being sold after the 2008 season to us. He hit his prime around age 28. One could also use this logic to put down Xavi. Sometimes i feel Scholes get mythical status as well, but you Henry having Scholes as the nr 1 player from the epl he would want to play with and Giggs saying that over his career Scholes has been the best he played with, he said going by what Ronnie achieved his nr 1, but Scholes overall was consistently the best.
Yeah, but after that he had 4 seasons where he reached a level of performance that puts him among the best of all time in his position. Did Scholes do this?
Scholes was basically at the same level as pre-Pep Xavi, but never enhanced his game like the latter.
Quite brilliant. A goal-scorer, and match-winner who worked his socks off. A natural football player, glided across the turf and was almost gentle with the football. Almost the perfect Man Utd football player. Very, very resilient too, depsite his light frame he never shirked a tackle... mentally tough (he had a couple of seasons when his form dropped a bit.. but SAF knew him ever so well). And in his later years, his class, quality, leadership and experience was huge in guiding us to the Vidic/Rio, Ronaldo generation.
Fabulous football player. Love him.
Fabulous football player. Love him.
It's not really hard to reconcile? He was competing with Lampard and Gerrard and he lost. He was arguably better than both - not saying he was, but there's not a lot in it. He was certainly a different type of player to both. Less flashy though, and older with less of an engine.
Those who spout that Giggs and Scholes are overrated are lost. As for Xavi, did he have the range of passing that Scholes had? Not a chance.
Xavi hit his goat lvl performances late in his career a bit like Modric. But no Scholes never had that peak. Unsure how to rate Xavi pre his peak though since i didn't really watch much of Barca before Pep and Messi elevated them.
How good was he? I think he was a world class winger with dribbling and ability and later in life he was also a very creative players. He was a more complete version of Zidane.
A bit over the top. Comparing a winger against a attacking midfielder. Giggs probably has more goal contributions over his career but Zidane's abilities were a cut above.
The big shame with Giggs is that there was no overlap between the rapid young lad with incredible balance and the 35 year old who had the composure and decision making of a top creative player. It was one then the other.
The two parts never came together because if they had he'd have been a top 3 player in the world.
The two parts never came together because if they had he'd have been a top 3 player in the world.
Loved winger Giggs. In Europe he was our main dangerman and not so secret weapon. Seeing him make full-backs shit themselves as he ran at them twisting in and out at blistering pace and sit them down in the process was pure entertainment.
Ok his final ball was inconsistent in the 90's but for pure excitement wing wizard Giggs was the one. A world class winger.
Centre midfielder, press resistant latter years Giggs was a more refined and efficient Giggs. Great to watch too.
Ok his final ball was inconsistent in the 90's but for pure excitement wing wizard Giggs was the one. A world class winger.
Centre midfielder, press resistant latter years Giggs was a more refined and efficient Giggs. Great to watch too.
You`re entitled to your opinion and we all have our biases - even me.....However, Giggsy never ran like Forrest Gump or some of the donkeys in English football. He was similar to Georgie Best which is praise indeed - with more defensive capability and input. His amazing ball skills and control were not something in isolation - they were combined with other footballing strengths including teamwork.
There`s a good reason the United fans used to sing `Giggs, Giggs will tear you apart again`. Giggsy was also the subject of consistent interest by the major European clubs including the two Milans and Juventus in Italy as well as Barcelona and Real Madrid in Spain. He was highly sought after and respected precisely because his game was suitable both in the Premier League and Europe, and he had that European style comfort on the ball and the kind of technique that too many players in the English game were considered to be lacking by Europeans.
The fact that Giggsy never played for England has something to do with how he can be under-rated by some. No disrespect to Wales. England needed more players like him if they were to achieve their potential which they never did. Giggsy had that flexibility and adaptability to play well against the different styles of international teams, something that other big Premier League names didn`t.
And I`d love to hear the names of the others in the same position at other big clubs that apparently Ryan wasn`t special when compared to. Do tell!
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Played for two completely different teams. I haven't seen a player since Scholes that could ping long range passing like he could. Sure there are some that have the same level-ish of accuracy, but it was how efficient the passes were. He basically shot them to the wings, almost grazing the heads of defenders at times. That made all the difference. Sometimes, just to play God, he would put a backwards spin on a long range pass. He really was that ridiculous. Xavi was a better and more creative short passer though. Scholes more of a goal threat perhaps?
It's difficult to compare though because Barca were all about controlling and dominating opposition. United were, even at their very best also a counter attacking team, or transitional team if you wish, and Scholes was at the heart of that dimension as well as controlling and dictating the tempo.
I've been supporting United since 1996 but because of many years spent dabbling in drugs, I can't remember exact moments but Giggsy was a top player (I think).
So true.
That isn't an opinion. It's a batshit mental post.
Ryan Giggs was as good on the wing as anyone not named Messi, Ronaldo or Ronaldinho. Anyone suggesting otherwise is just wrong.
Some seasons the best in the world. Others he may have been pipped by Figo, Robben, or similar.
But he was the best winger in the world for most of the years he played there, fit.
Some seasons the best in the world. Others he may have been pipped by Figo, Robben, or similar.
But he was the best winger in the world for most of the years he played there, fit.
I remember in Giggsy's early days he was the player every kid wanted to be in the school playground. The buzz was like that around young Rooney. I also remember him constantly being compared to George Best in the early 90s.
Top 5 United player.
One of the most underrated players in prem history, thanks to stat merchants.
Since George Best retired, only two left wingers worthy of lacing his boots would be Ryan Giggs and John Barnes.
A great great player. We had the luxury to get extra years out of him by not needing him week in week out in later years. But the fact he could come into the side as a central midfielder, or drop in at left back showed that he just had great footballing quality beyond what you'd expect of a quick winger... and doing that in his late 30's! Iconic player who's records probably won't be surpassed in most people's lifetimes.
Basing an opinion on players on how England NT team managers pick their teams is sketchy at best.
Stats were only counted from 2003 onwards but Giggs' stats have been counted on this forum and his assist numbers are world class.