I agree that he was definitely the best player in the world for a period, and his season at Depor in 1996/1997 before he joined Barcelona when he was outstanding shouldn't be forgotten as well. Plus there was his master class and goals against Denmark in the 1998 World Cup quarter-finals, and this piece of skill and 'almost goal' against Depor though at least he provided an assist for Saviola:
How great was Rivaldo?
- Thread starter Raees
- Start date
Robbed Beckham in 99.
Yeah reading it back it now it’s much clearer, haha.
To be fair, he doesn't really belong in GOAT conversations. Definitely in the tier below that hallowed bracket, though (around the likes of Rummenigge). Part of that is due to him being hard to pin down or classify, and being somewhat limited — e.g. Maradona can be characterized with his dribbling and leadership and passing, Beckenbauer can be characterized with his adroitness and 6th sense and organizational nous, et cetera — and both made the whole team tick. Rivaldo was a difference-maker but with a less profound impact on the general proceeding (a greater and more talented version of Griezmann for all intents and purposes), didn't posses a trademark style, didn't preside over his era and didn't make a comparable impact on the very fabric of the game. Plus, wrt. the underrating and the narrative surrounding him, he was at odds with the stereotypical view of dreamy larger-than-life Brazilian attacking artists in that while he had exquisite technique he often preferred to keep things simple and took the most cynical routes to goal (a characteristic/mentality that was more associated with continental attackers).
That last aspect definitely shines through in Ronaldinho vs. Rivaldo arguments where the former is given an edge on the basis of his playmaking/ball-carrying ability and entertainment value and immaculate control — even though Rivaldo was the more accomplished and intelligent footballer of the two while possessing lesser “natural talent”, statistically superior as a forward and made more consistent contributions in a myriad teams over the course his career. Similar sentiments trickle down while discussing the likes of Robben as well — a player who don't always garner appropriate acclaim and was undermined for much of the contemporary period because he isn't necessarily dazzling spectators with flamboyant skills...instead preferring to keep things as uncomplicated and direct as possible.
Back to Rivaldo, while he disappointed in the final of the 1998 World Cup...instead of rising to the occasion cometh the hour style (counts as a sore spot in the resumé), he was key to Brazil reaching that stage in the first place (most notably with the 2nd and 3rd goals in the comeback vs. Denmark). And while Ronaldo was exalted for his goalscoring exploits in the 2002 World Cup because he was adored by practically everyone and football as a whole was more emotionally invested his his story/redemption-arc, Rivaldo was arguably Brazil's best player in the tournament — scoring or assisting a total of 7 goals, and again making crucial contributions vs. Belgium and England and Turkey...as well as Germany in the final. Would no doubt rate him among the 2 best Seleção attackers of the last 20-25 years as he sizzled in the 1999 Copa América too...
Excellent profile video btw, @Raees — hopefully the first of many to come in the Classical player analysis series!
There was a period when Zidane, Figo and Rivaldo being the best 3 player and also attacking midfielder in the game.
Then of course in Brazil we have the 3R era too.
World class player during his peak, his hat trick in Barca vs Valencia is one of the all time best hat trick and individual performance in a game. He also won Ballon D'or once. But similar to most Brazil players in his time, his peak didn't last long.
If comparing to current players, he is probably at similar level as Neymar.
Then of course in Brazil we have the 3R era too.
World class player during his peak, his hat trick in Barca vs Valencia is one of the all time best hat trick and individual performance in a game. He also won Ballon D'or once. But similar to most Brazil players in his time, his peak didn't last long.
If comparing to current players, he is probably at similar level as Neymar.
SIR ALEX FERGUSON has revealed that Barcelona have resisted all attempts to prise Rivaldo away from Camp Nou.
Manchester United are one of the clubs who have tried to test the water in the past with regards to a move for the magical Brazilian, while Lazio also appear to have conceded defeat in their blockbusting bid to sign him for a world record fee this summer.
"As for Rivaldo, there has never been an occasion when Barcelona have been prepared to sell," the Scot revealed on United's official website.
"I don't think there was ever a possibility of bringing Zinedine Zidane over here. I think his wife prefers to be in that part of the world."
Ferguson, responding to fans' e-mailed questions, claimed he was only chasing four top targets this summer, rather than the six he was quoted as wanting, and that he is content with Ruud van Nistelrooy and Juan Sebastian Veron's arrival.
"I don't think there were six," he stated. "We had a target of four, excluding van Nistelrooy.
"We looked at where we could get a player to improve us.
"Van Nistelrooy was one, Veron was another, and we got him.
"We'd have liked another top defender but we didn't get him. But we're happy with what we have."
Presumably, Bixente Lizarazu and Lilian Thuram were the two defensive targets who slipped through the net.
Looking back, Ferguson would have loved to bring Gabriel Batistuta to Old Trafford, to partner French talisman Eric Cantona.
"I'd have thought somebody like Batistuta would have been the perfect partner for Eric Cantona," he declared. "Someone who could run through, a powerful hitter of the ball.
"Batistuta would be good - quick and aggressive. Eric liked that kind of player, who he could thread passes through to."
And, as for the future, Ferguson identified some of the names who will be hitting the headlines after he has stepped down as manager of The Red Devils.
"We've got some terrific prospects at Old Trafford," he enthused. "Darren Fletcher, who we hope will get over his broken leg, is good.
"Michael Stewart and Luke Chadwick are doing very well, and John O'Shea's doing well too.
"There's a young left back called Paul Tierney who's doing well, as is Danny Pugh. But there's a young boy who has started now, he's 16, called Kieran Richardson.
"He's going to be a fantastic player."
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/2213771/fergie-barca-wont-let-rivaldo-go
Read this old article a few days ago but couldn't find anywhere appropriate to post it at the time.
Manchester United are one of the clubs who have tried to test the water in the past with regards to a move for the magical Brazilian, while Lazio also appear to have conceded defeat in their blockbusting bid to sign him for a world record fee this summer.
"As for Rivaldo, there has never been an occasion when Barcelona have been prepared to sell," the Scot revealed on United's official website.
"I don't think there was ever a possibility of bringing Zinedine Zidane over here. I think his wife prefers to be in that part of the world."
Ferguson, responding to fans' e-mailed questions, claimed he was only chasing four top targets this summer, rather than the six he was quoted as wanting, and that he is content with Ruud van Nistelrooy and Juan Sebastian Veron's arrival.
"I don't think there were six," he stated. "We had a target of four, excluding van Nistelrooy.
"We looked at where we could get a player to improve us.
"Van Nistelrooy was one, Veron was another, and we got him.
"We'd have liked another top defender but we didn't get him. But we're happy with what we have."
Presumably, Bixente Lizarazu and Lilian Thuram were the two defensive targets who slipped through the net.
Looking back, Ferguson would have loved to bring Gabriel Batistuta to Old Trafford, to partner French talisman Eric Cantona.
"I'd have thought somebody like Batistuta would have been the perfect partner for Eric Cantona," he declared. "Someone who could run through, a powerful hitter of the ball.
"Batistuta would be good - quick and aggressive. Eric liked that kind of player, who he could thread passes through to."
And, as for the future, Ferguson identified some of the names who will be hitting the headlines after he has stepped down as manager of The Red Devils.
"We've got some terrific prospects at Old Trafford," he enthused. "Darren Fletcher, who we hope will get over his broken leg, is good.
"Michael Stewart and Luke Chadwick are doing very well, and John O'Shea's doing well too.
"There's a young left back called Paul Tierney who's doing well, as is Danny Pugh. But there's a young boy who has started now, he's 16, called Kieran Richardson.
"He's going to be a fantastic player."
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/2213771/fergie-barca-wont-let-rivaldo-go
Read this old article a few days ago but couldn't find anywhere appropriate to post it at the time.
great post
it's funny that these crunch moments when one player makes the difference that flavours people's minds
He flew under the radar in the more mainstream football audience as Ronaldo was the poster boy Brazilian while Zidane produced his best moments when the world was watching. But week-to-week I thought he was the most influential attacking player from 1998 through to 2002, with shorter periods during that time when Zidane (eg Euro 2000) or Figo rose to the top.
In terms of his standing amongst other Brazilian legends, it's quite difficult to compare when they bring such unique and rarefied qualities to the table. For instance between Ronaldinho's touch and manipulation of a ball in tight areas, Garrincha's unpredictable dribbling, Romario's elusive penalty-box finishing, Pele and Ronaldo's pacey ball-carrying, they were all the best of all time (or thereabouts) in each of those aspects of attacking play. At the same level, Rivaldo's main strength was the quality of his left foot which made him a threat from anywhere within 40 yards of the opposite goal, aligned with the ability to conjure space in advanced positions, be it through dribbling, technique or imagination. Comparing achievements, he has a compelling case to have the most impressive major tournament CV of any Brazilian since Pele. Two strong World Cups - the best left-sided attacker in 1998 - and probably the best overall in 2002 - plus a completely dominant Copa America win in 1999. That surpasses what many of the other greats - Rivelino, Zico, Falcao, Romario, Ronaldinho, Neymar - have delivered for the Selecao. It's probably only Ronaldo iwho has delivered the goods to the same extent at the top level for Brazil since the 1958/1962 generation.
High quality video @Raees - well researched and presented.
In terms of his standing amongst other Brazilian legends, it's quite difficult to compare when they bring such unique and rarefied qualities to the table. For instance between Ronaldinho's touch and manipulation of a ball in tight areas, Garrincha's unpredictable dribbling, Romario's elusive penalty-box finishing, Pele and Ronaldo's pacey ball-carrying, they were all the best of all time (or thereabouts) in each of those aspects of attacking play. At the same level, Rivaldo's main strength was the quality of his left foot which made him a threat from anywhere within 40 yards of the opposite goal, aligned with the ability to conjure space in advanced positions, be it through dribbling, technique or imagination. Comparing achievements, he has a compelling case to have the most impressive major tournament CV of any Brazilian since Pele. Two strong World Cups - the best left-sided attacker in 1998 - and probably the best overall in 2002 - plus a completely dominant Copa America win in 1999. That surpasses what many of the other greats - Rivelino, Zico, Falcao, Romario, Ronaldinho, Neymar - have delivered for the Selecao. It's probably only Ronaldo iwho has delivered the goods to the same extent at the top level for Brazil since the 1958/1962 generation.
High quality video @Raees - well researched and presented.
As good as anyone on his day. He was in a era where there was some ridiculous quality around. That should take nothing away from his quality
Never knew Darren Fletcher broke his leg
Great player. Top 5 in his generation. I was lucky enough to watch him play every week when he came to play for 4 years in Greece. Despite his age (he came 32) and after a failed stint in AC Milan, he proved that he still had it, albeit in a worse league. He almost singlehandedly defeated eliminated Liverpool in 2005. He was also a great professional and a player who cared for football, not just for money. When Olympiacos released him in 2007, he cried but he went to another team with less money than what Olympiacos had offered him, just to prove he was still the best. He almost won the league with AEK, which he eventually did not, because of a huge scandal which allowed his former team to be crowned champions again.
Does that youtube song still exist? "Rivaldo was a great player, but a difficult personality.."
Would add it to my spotify list.
Would add it to my spotify list.
This is a story right about how
Rivaldo's life got flipped turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute
Just sit right there
I'll tell you how he became a winger of instead of a ten full of flair.
In west Brazil born and raised
On the playground was where he spent most of his days
Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool
And all shootin some football outside of the school
When a Louis Van Gall who was up to no good
Started make Rivaldo switching up on his mood
They got in one little fight and Van Gaal declared
He said 'You're movin' to the left wing with Franky de Boer
Rivaldo's life got flipped turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute
Just sit right there
I'll tell you how he became a winger of instead of a ten full of flair.
In west Brazil born and raised
On the playground was where he spent most of his days
Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool
And all shootin some football outside of the school
When a Louis Van Gall who was up to no good
Started make Rivaldo switching up on his mood
They got in one little fight and Van Gaal declared
He said 'You're movin' to the left wing with Franky de Boer
One of the best.
Ronaldo. Rivaldo. Ronaldino
The talked the talk....and walked the walk.
Ronaldo. Rivaldo. Ronaldino
The talked the talk....and walked the walk.
Where have the players like Rivaldo, Ronaldinho & Henry gone?
Don't seem to exist in the modern era for some reason? There are super athletes like Messi and Ronaldo 7, in the previous era it seems there were a lot more high flair insanely talented players around. They didn't peak as long but arguably had higher peaks.
Performed just as good as Ronaldo (if not better) at the 98 and 02 World Cup
He was underrated. How a united player never won the World of the year award in 1999 is a travesty though.
Barcelona were knocked out in the CL group stages. Brazil did win the copa America though. It goes to show the complete biased towards la liga players in these awards.
Barcelona were knocked out in the CL group stages. Brazil did win the copa America though. It goes to show the complete biased towards la liga players in these awards.
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I'd rate him better than Neymar tbh.
Played huge part in Brazil winning 2002 world cup and was really carrying Barca in late 90s and early 00s. Barca were pretty rubbish in that period, finished one season 6th and only finished 4th in 2001 due to the hat trick he scored v Valencia. I'm sure everyone remembers that last minute overhead kick which is one of my favourite ever goals.
Played huge part in Brazil winning 2002 world cup and was really carrying Barca in late 90s and early 00s. Barca were pretty rubbish in that period, finished one season 6th and only finished 4th in 2001 due to the hat trick he scored v Valencia. I'm sure everyone remembers that last minute overhead kick which is one of my favourite ever goals.
His certain "reputation" and World Cup "antics" obscured his great football abilities.
Sadly that’s the ‘highlight’ that springs to mind too.
Great player, but what a fanny for doing that.
Good player I will say more direct that the normal Brazilian attacker, almost European in footballing style
His best performances to me, vs Valencia 3-2 for the CL qualifying game
vs AC Milan 3-3
At many times he was the main attacking threat for Barcelona at a time they were not as good as the recent Barca side
His best performances to me, vs Valencia 3-2 for the CL qualifying game
vs AC Milan 3-3
At many times he was the main attacking threat for Barcelona at a time they were not as good as the recent Barca side
His season in Deportivo was incredible. His first seasons at Barcelona too but he played in a Barcelona too gray.
A transfer from a great Palmeiras to a secondary team in Spain with 23 years and with that potential It would be impossible nowadays.
I think that lengthening his career so much harmed him regarding the opinion of the fan
A transfer from a great Palmeiras to a secondary team in Spain with 23 years and with that potential It would be impossible nowadays.
I think that lengthening his career so much harmed him regarding the opinion of the fan
Attacking football away from home at Barcelona.. That's what I miss.
He was a truly great player. Really great in the final third. Amazing technique, some of the best I've seen. His ball striking was out of this world. Ilicic reminds me alot of him.
No idea why some compare him to Zidane, completely different players. Completely different attributes. While Zizou mostly let his passing game do the talking and pretty much ran things for his teams, Rivaldo was an executioner for his teams.
No idea why some compare him to Zidane, completely different players. Completely different attributes. While Zizou mostly let his passing game do the talking and pretty much ran things for his teams, Rivaldo was an executioner for his teams.
Cheers Joga.
Great post - the Griezmann comparison is particularly apt, and thanks mate!To be fair, he doesn't really belong in GOAT conversations. Definitely in the tier below that hallowed bracket, though (around the likes of Rummenigge). Part of that is due to him being hard to pin down or classify, and being somewhat limited — e.g. Maradona can be characterized with his dribbling and leadership and passing, Beckenbauer can be characterized with his adroitness and 6th sense and organizational nous, et cetera — and both made the whole team tick. Rivaldo was a difference-maker but with a less profound impact on the general proceeding (a greater and more talented version of Griezmann for all intents and purposes), didn't posses a trademark style, didn't preside over his era and didn't make a comparable impact on the very fabric of the game. Plus, wrt. the underrating and the narrative surrounding him, he was at odds with the stereotypical view of dreamy larger-than-life Brazilian attacking artists in that while he had exquisite technique he often preferred to keep things simple and took the most cynical routes to goal (a characteristic/mentality that was more associated with continental attackers).
That last aspect definitely shines through in Ronaldinho vs. Rivaldo arguments where the former is given an edge on the basis of his playmaking/ball-carrying ability and entertainment value and immaculate control — even though Rivaldo was the more accomplished and intelligent footballer of the two while possessing lesser “natural talent”, statistically superior as a forward and made more consistent contributions in a myriad teams over the course his career. Similar sentiments trickle down while discussing the likes of Robben as well — a player who don't always garner appropriate acclaim and was undermined for much of the contemporary period because he isn't necessarily dazzling spectators with flamboyant skills...instead preferring to keep things as uncomplicated and direct as possible.
Back to Rivaldo, while he disappointed in the final of the 1998 World Cup...instead of rising to the occasion cometh the hour style (counts as a sore spot in the resumé), he was key to Brazil reaching that stage in the first place (most notably with the 2nd and 3rd goals in the comeback vs. Denmark). And while Ronaldo was exalted for his goalscoring exploits in the 2002 World Cup because he was adored by practically everyone and football as a whole was more emotionally invested his his story/redemption-arc, Rivaldo was arguably Brazil's best player in the tournament — scoring or assisting a total of 7 goals, and again making crucial contributions vs. Belgium and England and Turkey...as well as Germany in the final. Would no doubt rate him among the 2 best Seleção attackers of the last 20-25 years as he sizzled in the 1999 Copa América too...
Excellent profile video btw, @Raees — hopefully the first of many to come in the Classical player analysis series!
@Neil_Buchanan
Roy Keane wanted him here too and wanted us to break the bank. Rivaldo had the following to say...
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...barcelona-manchester-united-transfer-18102906
He was an 8 out of 10 Ronaldo and an 8 out of 10 Ronaldinho.
Direct but never powerful. Skilful but never inventive.
Loved watching him
Direct but never powerful. Skilful but never inventive.
Loved watching him
Bruno doesn't rate Rivaldo.
Son's a big fan though.
I didn't think we were seriously pursuing Rivaldo - I was wrong. Apparently Fergie wanted Thuram and Lizarazu as well. Now that would've been some team. And it's such a shame we didn't offer big wages in the 90s or else we would've had Batistuta partnering Cantona. Oh well. As for Rivaldo he was a great player.
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For me that incident fecks up his whole career. Wouldn't waste time evaluating him after that. Probably got him to thank for why we're now seeing all this shit in the PL.
tough personalityI saw that
Wonder why he doesnt rate him.
- At one point he is the best player in the world, and Ballon D'or winner.
- Forms a great 3R attack with Ronaldo and Ronaldinho, and won the WC. Arguably the best player in WC too.
- Scored a brilliant hat trick vs Valencia in crucial final day of La Liga season. Probably the best hattrick I've seen from any player.
- Hs playacting incident in WC was truly ridicolous.
In terms of his standing in my ranked system (players I've seen):
Tier 1: Messi, Ronaldo, Maradona
Tier 2: L.Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho
Tier 3: Baggio, Romario, Rivaldo, Figo, Xavi, Inesta, Henry
- Forms a great 3R attack with Ronaldo and Ronaldinho, and won the WC. Arguably the best player in WC too.
- Scored a brilliant hat trick vs Valencia in crucial final day of La Liga season. Probably the best hattrick I've seen from any player.
- Hs playacting incident in WC was truly ridicolous.
In terms of his standing in my ranked system (players I've seen):
Tier 1: Messi, Ronaldo, Maradona
Tier 2: L.Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho
Tier 3: Baggio, Romario, Rivaldo, Figo, Xavi, Inesta, Henry
Fergie wanted him in 1999, maybe in 2001 as well I think.
The main issue with Rivaldo as was with many big targets in the 90's was his personal terms. The wages.
In 1999 Rivaldo's weekly wage was at least three times above what we paying our top player at that moment.
Martin Edwards and the board back then were not prepared to break the wage structure.
In the summer of 2000 he signed a contract worth £80k per week
Beckham who became the 2nd most paid in 99 - mostly due to his sponsorships was on £32k
When Keane signed a new deal in 2002 he was on £90k a week same as Becks who also signed a new deal at the time
half time analyisis of Rivaldo playing vs Pool in the Uefa Cup
Beckham who became the 2nd most paid in 99 - mostly due to his sponsorships was on £32k
When Keane signed a new deal in 2002 he was on £90k a week same as Becks who also signed a new deal at the time
half time analyisis of Rivaldo playing vs Pool in the Uefa Cup
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Thats a good ranking system. Kind of how I see them too. The tier 4 would have the likes of Zlatan
If I'm not wrong Veron's wages was 90k/week when he signed in 2001.
The best time to sign Rivaldo was probably 99 or before. He was essentially done after winning WC2002.
It hasn't been mentioned yet but LVG shifted him to the wing