How many of these players should be in a United squad?

[Von Mistelroum]

I was thinking, while scratching out my eyeballs during the final minutes of the Copenhagen match, about how many of the current United squad I like...this led me to wonder how many of them would make it into what I'd consider a 'proper United squad' - one that would challenge for top titles and be a genuine threat to the likes of Abu Dhabi and co.

Aside from realising that I like a very small number of our current squad (and that if I was a child again I wouldn't really have anyone to idolise like I did with the likes of Cantona), I also realised that there's not many of these players that I would consider capable of being in a 'proper United squad'.

So let's see...

I'd actually say that with a competent defense in front of him, Onana could be good enough for a top level squad.

Martinez, with a strong partner would be fine, and could even be part of the starting 11.

Bruno with top players around him to cover for his shortcomings should be ok, but certainly shouldn't be a guaranteed starter or captain.

Hojlund would actually, even at this stage of his career, would be a goalscoring machine with good players around him. Not every week and he'd need to be cycled in and out but he would be challenging to start.

Garnacho has potential, but he's very hit and miss. Could be a top player but equally could be forgotten in 5 years. A wildcard that could be worth having on the bench though.

And that's it. I genuinely don't think any of our other players are good enough. Casemiro and Varane obviously would have been before their decline, but the rest are nowhere near. The problem is, it's getting worse. Every transfer window is likely to bring the next Mount or Antony to add to the list of players who will never be close to good enough. Something needs to happen, and I can only hope that a DoF who actually knows football will help.

Sooo what do you guys think? Any players you would put in, swap for one of my picks etc?

 

[TheNewEra]

Age old debate really. Since SAF we ask this question every year.

Problem isn't the squad its the owners expectations.

Until the Glazers go we're fecked.

 

[AshRK]

Funny how we have similar threads almost every season since SAF retired. We can easily bin 10 players and no one will miss them

 

[Pes6Monster]

Players ought to maintain a standard from the beginning, ratger than take months to assimilate.

Mount cost sixty million and EtH doesn't know. Sancho was chased for three years, and Ole didn't know. There are a plethora of other examples. Antony is on 200k a week, tenfold his Ajax wage. Why?

The mentality is not there at our club. The manager is impotent no matter whom. He knows he will get the chop because our players are too difficult to remove.

It's a mentality issue. The will to succeed is secondary to self-advancement. Standards removed for insta-hits and the fastest buck. Pogback.

Until it is addressed we will continue to suffer.

 

[sglowrider]

Age old debate really. Since SAF we ask this question every year.

Problem isn't the squad its the owners expectations.

Until the Glazers go we're fecked.

Not sure what the owners have got to do with this. We won under Fergie with the Glazers as owners. And what is these mythical 'expectations' ? Do the owners not want to win?

Its down to the footballing side of the operation -- Murtough, and especially ETH. They were clearly ETH's choices.

The actual question is whether they are fit for purpose when the next manager comes -- or we do a rinse & repeat and change the half squad.

 

[norm87cro]

IMO: Bruno, Rashford, Shaw, Onana, Awb, Garnacho, Casemiro and prehaps Hojlund. Dont want to nitpick with anybody here but the point is if you have a different opinion its still a small amount of players...

 

[honirelandboy]

Onana, Martinez, Casemeiro, Anthony, Hojlund, Mount, Shaw, Bruno, Garnacho. Rest are shocking.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Rashford, Casemiro and Varane would have been in any team in the league only 5 or 6 months ago. You don’t suddenly become a bad player overnight, more at play here. The whole team is malfunctioning, barely anyone comes out with any credit in this spell, doesn’t mean they’re all permanently shite players.

Case in point people say Luke Shaw is Championship level here when he’s playing badly, and he’s Roberto Carlos reborn when he’s playing well. The truth is somewhere inbetween.

 

[Oranges038]

I don't think it's just a question of now, you need to look at players and what they are doing, but also where they are going to be in 3 to 4 years and where you want the club to be. This is on the club to sort out the background structure and build a squad with a focus and a goal in mind.

I already posted a thread on this, some players are okay now, but if you look down the line, what use are they going to be in 3 / 4 years. The focus needs to be on building a squad that will grow and peak together, not this mish mash of different aged players who just don't have the same level of hunger and desire. This lot will never gel over a long period, it always falls apart.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-3-year-rebuilding-process.480045/page-6#post-31322919

 

[AndySmith1990]

If I were building a team from scratch designed to win titles I'd choose none of them, other than perhaps Hojlund who'd be second choice forward and Gernacho.

 

[Houdini]

Onana, Martinez, Varane, AWB, Casemiro, Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford, Shaw, (not sure about Mount). Problem is they are not necessary starters.

 

[Gawge]

Age old debate really. Since SAF we ask this question every year.

Problem isn't the squad its the owners expectations.

Until the Glazers go we're fecked.

I don't understand this. This squad would magically be better under different owners?

I appreciate the role the owners (indirectly) have played in the building of this (very expensive) squad, but the squad is absolutely a problem.

 

[Fortitude]

Made this thread myself at least 3 times post-Fergie. Practically always reduces down to around 4-5 players, plus our youngsters with the rest not being missed.

In a free rein cull, there's not even an xi of purchased players to field.

 

[11101]

Onana, Martinez, Shaw, Bruno.

Casemiro and Varane would be squad options at this stage of their career.

Hojlund, Garnacho and Antony would be youngsters getting a few games.

The rest would not be missed if they weren't here.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

Shaw, Martinez, Garnacho, Hojlund. That's it for me.

 

[Scandi Red]

Onana, Martinez, Shaw, Bruno.

Casemiro and Varane would be squad options at this stage of their career.

Hojlund, Garnacho and Antony would be youngsters getting a few games.

The rest would not be missed if they weren't here.

Throw Antony out of there and you're pretty much spot on.

Shaw's injuries are annoying though. He can also suddenly turn to shit if he's not challenged. It has happened at least 2 times before.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Funny how we have similar threads almost every season since SAF retired. We can easily bin 10 players and no one will miss them

Rangnick really wasn't wrong. There's a lot of absolute chancers in our squad.

 

[colombianmancunian]

Onana, Licha, Shaw, Casemiro, Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho, Antony and Højlund.

Jimmy got a rebuild in his hands.

 

[Dec9003]

Ironically players like McTominay and Evans deserve to be in more than bigger names like Sancho and Varane. We were let down again last night by defenders that have been here for some time, my worry is I don’t trust the manager/board/whatever to replace them, we’re in limbo a bit until Jimmy potentially comes and brings a team in.

 

[dcrompton]

If Newcastle fans were discussing who was good enough prior to Saudi takeover and Howe’s appointment they probably would have said Joelinton, Burns, Longstaff, Willock etc were not good enough and need upgrading. But what does Howe do, he implements a system (and in Joelinton’s case a position change) and makes them better. This is the major issue since Fergie left, no United players actually improve. Whether this is the manager’s fault or the player’s fault is the chicken and egg conundrum.

If you look at another sport, the England cricket team won only 1 of 17 tests and Ashley Giles blamed the system, saying you could replace him and the head coach and it would make no difference. They did change coach and captain and under Mccullum and Stokes but the same players they ‘Bazballed’ their way to 9 straight wins playing exciting aggressive cricket. I’d love to see someone do the same at United, just come in a change the whole mindset and play exciting, fearless football a bit like Postecoglu has done at Spurs. These are all professional footballlers for god sake but they play with fear and don’t look like they even like football. I had high hopes for Ten Hag but he’s playing survival football and does not look like he can turn it around with these players.

 

[Acrobat7]

I actually thought about this a couple of days ago but from a different perspective: how many players from the current United squad would I want at Bayern. The answer wasn’t pretty.

 

[Marcelinho87]

All of them have proved their worth except the odd one, the problems stem from the top.

if a business itself shows a lack of accountability alack of drive and a lack of a successful structure then this only filters down.

it’s why we have serial CL winners now looking like league 2 players.

competent ownership would improve the mentality around the whole club, not just on the pitch.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Onana, Licha, Shaw, Casemiro, Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho, Antony and Højlund.

Jimmy got a rebuild in his hands.

Antony. That's hilarious

 

[Fortitude]

I actually thought about this a couple of days ago but from a different perspective: how many players from the current United squad would I want at Bayern. The answer wasn’t pretty.

Why would you do that?

What did you conclude? I’m gonna guess Shaw and Martinez?

 

[backpass]

The question should be, how many of these players would be top grade if they played under SAF and in a world class Man Utd. I think quite a lot. That means just replacing them is not the solution.

 

[Oranges038]

The question should be, how many of these players would be top grade if they played under SAF and in a world class Man Utd. I think quite a lot. That means just replacing them is not the solution.

Which ones?

 

[Telsim]

GK: Onana.
Defenders: Lisandro Martinez, Luke Shaw.
Midfielder: None.
Forwards: Hojlund, Garnacho.
Also, whoever else is 21 and under.

I'd bin all the rest without a second thought. Either too old, too inconsistent, not the right mentality, or any combination of those.

 

[Champ]

Don't need a world class player for every position to win trophies, just players willing to put themselves on the line and run through walls.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Probably Onana, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, Fernandes, Garnacho and Hojlund? The rest - pretty much replaceable entirely, but I'd keep McTominay as a squad player. Really don't rate anyone else.

As an aside, it's frankly unbelievable to me that we are starting a 35 year old Jonny Evans, and Antony Martial as ACTUAL squad players, and that Phil Jones was one for the last 5 years. We've given Diogo Dalot a 4 year deal. We are supposed to be the equivalent status wise of Bayern Munich and Barcelona, and we've spent 400million to end up with Jonny Evans as our starting centre back and Antony Martial as our second choice no9 and Dalot as a first team player somehow. That's just astonishingly badly managed by the club and everyone associated with it should be embarrassed, it's embarrassing to be a fan. As Ronaldo said the standards have dropped badly.

We put up with Lingard - 0 goals and assists in an entire year as our starting no10 - and people at the club thought that was good enough for years too. Nothing seems to have changed. I'd rather start every single youth player than those mentioned, bring back Brandon Williams, and try something new than be playing Evans and Martial EVER AGAIN.

 

[noodlehair]

I think quite a lot would be in a SAF squad. Well most of them. SAF had a habit of elevating players performance levels and also would use them for their strengths.

The problem is they'd pretty much all be just that. Squad players.

How many would get in our first choice 11 in 2008, or even be one of those on the fringes of it?

I reckon you could argue two thirds or more would fulfil a stand in or back up role, but only Bissaka is in with a chance of starting in the defence, and only because we didn't really have a right back at the time. Midfield and attack none of them even get into the territory of it being a debate. Maybe Casemiro over Carrick, but more likely he'd be the stand in.

Bruno who's our best player imo, would stick out like a sore thumb because he'd either be a much worse version of Giggs or a poor Rooney stand in.

 

[Oldyella]

Why would you do that?

What did you conclude? I’m gonna guess Shaw and Martinez?

Exactly the same names I was thinking.

 

[Fortitude]

Exactly the same names I was thinking.

Our problem will be if we continue to tank, Martinez will most likely leave. His skillset is in high demand and his stock has risen; he's probably our most coveted player in the sense of what he can offer other sides.

I think Shaw is too much of a homebody to go anywhere, but he too would easily get a big club, especially so now that he's shown he is eclectic enough to play as a LCB or even in a 3 as well as his actual position.

A painful exercise given we used to be a world class side.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

I actually think SAF would have had Maguire. Evans too obviously.

 

[Baneofthegame]

In the squad, regardless of fees/wages?

Onana, Shaw, Varane, Martinez, Casemiro, Mount, Fernandes, Hojlund, Garnacho, Rashford, Antony.

Nailed on starter is a different story.

 

[backpass]

Which ones?

Lets talk about some a lot might not agree.

Sancho would be amazing in a great team under SAF.
I think MCTominay could be really good in a top team under SAF
Martial still feels like he could have been amazing in a parallel world.
Rashford not beeing the superstar of a mediocre team but the lad still out there to proof himself in a top SAF team would also be big.

Especially the first three could be different players then what they look like today.

 

[Redstain]

Rashford, Casemiro and Varane would have been in any team in the league only 5 or 6 months ago. You don’t suddenly become a bad player overnight, more at play here. The whole team is malfunctioning, barely anyone comes out with any credit in this spell, doesn’t mean they’re all permanently shite players.

Case in point people say Luke Shaw is Championship level here when he’s playing badly, and he’s Roberto Carlos reborn when he’s playing well. The truth is somewhere inbetween.

You do when a relatively good season under the manager is immediately followed by a bad one and perhaps due to elevated optimism the manager has no fault in form and the players are totally responsible.

Sarcasm but I've stated this before, no one was saying this in summer when the prediction thread was brimming with top 3 finish projections. These players as a collective aren't world class but they are good enough for the manager to get a better tune out of them and the seasons struggles haven't come through a lack of effort but insufficient tactical application many times this season.

Objectively the team doesn't need a major rehaul but a select few high quality purchases in at least three positions and if the manager gets his ideas right the team would be closer to the top of the pack. What's been witnessed is a capitulation due to several factors but this team is certainly better than what's being displayed.

 

[Bastian]

Last time I made a thread like this I had one player I'd not ship out and that was Greenwood

 

[Oranges038]

Lets talk about some a lot might not agree.

Sancho would be amazing in a great team under SAF.
I think MCTominay could be really good in a top team under SAF
Martial still feels like he could have been amazing in a parallel world.
Rashford not beeing the superstar of a mediocre team but the lad still out there to proof himself in a top SAF team would also be big.

Especially the first three could be different players then what they look like today.

Martial would have been shipped out long ago under SAF, he's basically just an overhyped Bellion.

McT would have got a season before being moved on, like Gibson.

Rashford maybe, but there's absolutely no way SAF would tolerate his inconsistency, poor decision making and lack of work rate. But he'd probably have found a way to get him working better for the team.

 

[Shake Jism]

Until the Glazers go we're fecked.

Could not agree more.

And now with that fracker Twatcliffe propping them up, it's only likely to get worse.

 

[Hammondo]

GK: Onana.
Defenders: Lisandro Martinez, Luke Shaw.
Midfielder: None.
Forwards: Hojlund, Garnacho.
Also, whoever else is 21 and under.

I'd bin all the rest without a second thought. Either too old, too inconsistent, not the right mentality, or any combination of those.

I think Eriksson can be a squad player. Also bissaka