How to solve the centreback problem

How do we best solve the centreback problem?

  • Buy in the next transfer window

    Votes: 128 75.3%

  • Recall Fosu-Mensah and/or Tuanzebe

    Votes: 18 10.6%

  • Get another player in on loan

    Votes: 2 1.2%

  • Stick with what we've got

    Votes: 22 12.9%
  • Total voters
    170

Wednesday at Stoke

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Lets assume Jose is retained as the manager for the course of the entire season.

Its quite clear that he doesn't trust anyone other than Smalling amongst the current centerbacks and even Smalling is a liability that requires playing a midfielder much deeper than should be needed to bring the ball out of the back. How do we address this issue so that the season doesn't essentially turn into an exercise of applying band-aid to flesh wound?

Buy in winter window?
Temporary loan fix?
Recall Fosu Mensah or Tuanzebe or both?
Play Bailly or Jones into form?
Move Matic into defense once Herrera gets healthy?

Mods, can we get a poll?
 
Decide on cb partnership and then give them extended run in the team to build understanding and confidence ,don't overanalyze their every mistake and hung them out to dry at first sign of trouble.
Playing consistent back four would also help greatly.
 
Create a technology that can fuse Jones, Bailly and Linedlof together into one (hopefully) half competent center back.

Or just stick with one... probably Bailly?
 
I'll play. Will need to start training now though if you want me match fit by the time we get back after the international break. Also for match fit, think 45 year old wayne rooney.
 
It's questionable whether Jose will be here in January let alone 12 months from now so with that being said I cant imagine buying anyone in January will happen. Only way to fix the current issue is for De Gea to resume god mode and make the defence look better than it is because that's what worked last season
 
This whole situation is madness it was never a problem till Jose started complaining about it.
 
The only reliable fix is to go back to playing with two holding midfielders protecting them like we did for large parts of last season.
Other than that as people have said pick 2 that will play most of the time and don't drop them, whether or not it's Smalling+Bailly or Smalling+Lindelof probably doesn't make that much difference.
 
An interesting question for me is when did our centre backs become a problem?

Because we've had a respectable enough defensively record (amongst the best of the league) over the last few years and we've largely had the same bunch of defenders. No one was saying we had a massive issue at the back last year. If you asked posters why we were ahead of say, Liverpool, in the league, it would be because we had the better defence and organisation.

This season we've been calamitous at the back. And it's not because we're playing a more adventurous game. And the trope that DDG has been bailing out our defence doesn't seem to wash given he's made several world class saves this season.

There are issues with our centre backs. Smalling is our best defender but not good enough on the ball. The rest have flaws in their game. But the calamity that follows our defence this season I think is clearly a function of Jose doing his best to ruin the confidence and rhythm of our defence.

Why on earth did he sell Blind if playing the ball out of the back was such a big issue for him, and largely refuse to play Lindelof? There's clearly something Mourinho doesn't like about Bailly and it's been apparent since about March last season.

We need to pick a partnership and stick with it. Buy a partner who complements Smalling.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
This whole situation is madness it was never a problem till Jose started complaining about it.
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It's a good point. Questions should be asked as to why these defenders have suddenly got a lot worse from last season. I mean they weren't great last season and DDG bailed them out over and over again but they're still under performing and is that due to the managers negative comments about the defence in the press? If that is the case though I'd say man-up and prove him wrong but then we know our players are precious little pansy's
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Bailley got the hook early on Saturday. I doubt we will see him for a while...
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Which was the wrong decision IMO.

Bailly was as much at fault for our poor defence as anyone else in the defence (and Matic and McT too)... no way he should have gone off instead of McT
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Buy in winter window. Give up on the existing lot, bar a few.
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That seems like the only feasible option.
Smalling is the best of an awfully poor bunch.

Previous threads mentioned playing Matic along side Smalling. Matic has been decidedly mediocre so far in a DM role mainly lacking pace but he is a reasonable passer.

Hopefully he would do better in defence until January.

However, it has to be said that JM has a poor track record of signing centre backs but assuming Jose remains our manager it would be surprising if he was not funded to sign someone.
 
charlenefan said:
It's a good point. Questions should be asked as to why these defenders have suddenly got a lot worse from last season. I mean they weren't great last season and DDG bailed them out over and over again but they're still under performing and is that due to the managers negative comments about the defence in the press? If that is the case though I'd say man-up and prove him wrong but then we know our players are precious little pansy's
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I agree - I just needed to know why all of our CBs have gone backwards this season. Something doesn't add up..
 
He has to afford Bailly a run in the team the same way he has gave everyone else a fair chance. Its been so long since he had a fair crack at it so there may well be more mistakes to come but he's easily potentially better than all of the rest bar Smalling imo
 
gajender said:
Decide on cb partnership and then give them extended run in the team to build understanding and confidence ,don't overanalyze their every mistake and hung them out to dry at first sign of trouble.
Playing consistent back four would also help greatly.
Click to expand...

I thought he would stick with the Smalling lindelof partnership as they are both reliable fitness wise. If anyone could build a partnership is them two
 
At the moment and till we sign a new and good CB, score more goals to compensate.
 
Funny thing is, we play McTominay at CB. We loaned Tuanzebe who looks like an excellent ball playing centre back prospect. That makes a lot of sense in the world of up side downs. Lindelöf looking shaky certainly doesn't help. My issue with our centre backs is that only Smalling knows how to win a header. Matic is even worse than our other options. Did you see one of his attempts at clearing a lofted ball? He's terrible in the air! Looking at how well Gomez is playing for Liverpool, I sometimes wish we had binned Lindelöf and gone with Tuanzebe who currently is at least as good and has a much, much higher ceiling.
 
Buy. None of the defenders we have is good enough on the ball to allow us to build from the back. Mourinho has mentioned the reason he played McTominay and Pogba deep was to help us play out. Our centre backs don't have the quality to do that. Lindelof is the best of them at passing but as a defender he's probably the worst so that's no help.

We need to buy. Its that simple. If we don't then don't expect us to play from the back. Also if we don't we need to play Fellaini every game cos our defenders will hoof under any pressing.
 
Rossa said:
Yes, but it's like we start every match 2-0 down. What happened? Last year was not a happy go round for great football, but our defense was mostly solid.
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We're basically the new Arsenal when it comes to this so we'll have to do like them. No other solution tbh.
 
el3mel said:
We're basically the new Arsenal when it comes to this so we'll have to do like them. No other solution tbh.
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Then we should just hire Wenger and get on with it! There is something wrong with the world - Klopp's defense is great, and Mourinho's is struggling. One of the problems for me is our midfield. When you look at the first goal, the amount of space between Matic (who lost the man and the ball far too easily) and the defense, one has to wonder what is going on. Either the defense has to sit higher (we have plently of recovery pace at the back), or the midfield needs to sit deeper. As it is, there is just too much space for opposition teams to run into. Oh, and Bailly has to stop thinking that he can recover 15 yards on every player - he can't!
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Which was the wrong decision IMO.

Bailly was as much at fault for our poor defence as anyone else in the defence (and Matic and McT too)... no way he should have gone off instead of McT
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On both goals Young was coming over the help defend in positions that our centrebacks should be in but for some reason weren't. I think that's why Bailley got the yank. Especially on the first goal. Young is our RB and he was coming in the LCB position to try and cover. Our centre halves have to do much better than that. They were caught flat footed...
 
Rossa said:
Then we should just hire Wenger and get on with it! There is something wrong with the world - Klopp's defense is great, and Mourinho's is struggling. One of the problems for me is our midfield. When you look at the first goal, the amount of space between Matic (who lost the man and the ball far too easily) and the defense, one has to wonder what is going on. Either the defense has to sit higher (we have plently of recovery pace at the back), or the midfield needs to sit deeper. As it is, there is just too much space for opposition teams to run into. Oh, and Bailly has to stop thinking that he can recover 15 yards on every player - he can't!
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There was an argument for Jose that he improves defensive minded players. That has fallen flat on its face on evidence of this season.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
This whole situation is madness it was never a problem till Jose started complaining about it.
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I wouldn’t go quite as far as that, but in general I agree.

Plus if he’s so concerned that we can’t play out from the back, why did he get rid of Blind and bring in two defenders who are not only worse at it than him, but are no better defensively?
 
Rossa said:
Then we should just hire Wenger and get on with it! There is something wrong with the world - Klopp's defense is great, and Mourinho's is struggling. One of the problems for me is our midfield. When you look at the first goal, the amount of space between Matic (who lost the man and the ball far too easily) and the defense, one has to wonder what is going on. Either the defense has to sit higher (we have plently of recovery pace at the back), or the midfield needs to sit deeper. As it is, there is just too much space for opposition teams to run into. Oh, and Bailly has to stop thinking that he can recover 15 yards on every player - he can't!
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Matic has been prettt shite this season and doesn't cover the ground in front of defense at all. If this goes on I think we'll need to replace him with a more dynamic DMF. Playing 2 DMFs to cover the weakness of one doesn't appeal to me.
 
How to solve a problem you created yourself? Well of course, you go back to the state you were in before you made the mistake.

Last season Smalling & Jones played well. Pick them as a two and give them a run of games, showing some faith in them. They've only played together for most of their careers, they just might be able to work it out.

Because Mourinho sure as hell can't.
 
el3mel said:
Matic has been prettt shite this season and doesn't cover the ground in front of defense at all. If this goes on I think we'll need to replace him with a more dynamic DMF. Playing 2 DMFs to cover the weakness of one doesn't appeal to me.
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I think Matic has been wank, tbh. I'm not even sure we need a DM. I believe our current crop of CBs would thrive more if we sit higher up the field. I can't think of many attacks that would outpace them, and then they wouldn't be forced back as much towards their own box. The need for that DM would also diminish. Play a trio of Fred, Herrera and Pogba with Fred and Pogba more freedom to get forward, but make it dynamic.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
On both goals Young was coming over the help defend in positions that our centrebacks should be in but for some reason weren't. I think that's why Bailley got the yank. Especially on the first goal. Young is our RB and he was coming in the LCB position to try and cover. Our centre halves have to do much better than that. They were caught flat footed...
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Nono, first goal Young was with his man Kenedy and so was following his man (as he should) - instead of showing him outside he let him turn inside (was a ok turn to be fair) and the finish was excellent. Bailly and Smalling were in okay positions, but Bailly was really just guilty of not reacting/not doing much of anything.



Second goal - again Bailly is marking the right man, he just makes a poor attempt to challenge for the ball when the header goes in.
 
Buy someone who's ready to go straight into the first team in January, and pair them with Smalling (our most consistent CB). Sell one of Jones or Rojo.

Leaves us with New CB, Smalling, Bailly, Lindelof and Jones/Rojo competing for the 2 spots.

Then evaluate in the summer whether Lindelof and Bailly are good enough to stay. A lot depends on potential managerial changes though.
 
flappyjay said:
I thought he would stick with the Smalling lindelof partnership as they are both reliable fitness wise. If anyone could build a partnership is them two
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Ideally Mourinho should have stuck with them but true to form Mourinho dumped Lindelof after his mistake and now our Cb merry go round would just go on .
 
The problem is in the midfield, I will say it over and over but it's baffling that people don't see it. On what type of planet do you blame the CBs when every lousy player in the PL can run at them without being disturbed by the midfield. As you can see in the video above, normally the assist maker should never be in that position alone, he should never be able to run like that without being challenged or rerouted and that's something that we see several times in every games.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Nono, first goal Young was with his man Kenedy and so was following his man (as he should) - instead of showing him outside he let him turn inside (was a ok turn to be fair) and the finish was excellent. Bailly and Smalling were in okay positions, but Bailly was really just guilty of not reacting/not doing much of anything.



Second goal - again Bailly is marking the right man, he just makes a poor attempt to challenge for the ball when the header goes in.
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Central defense has to drop there. FB should never be the deepest man. A little pressure from our midfield would be nice too lol
 
We should’ve kept blind for starters imo he was better than Rojo, lindaloff, Bailly and Jones.

I do like smalling he’s currently our best centreback. I would’ve loved to have a smalling + blind partnership even if it was temporary solution it’s better than what we have now.

We need to buy a young but relatively experienced centreback like Liverpool did with VVD maybe somebody solid like Lascelles from Newcastle could be decent and not cost the world but we also need an experienced player like alderwiereld too.
 
The real problems are Matic, Herrera's injuries and right back position, not our centrebecks.
 
Succesful CB pairings usually consists of players that compliment each other in abilities; Vidic and Rio. One strong and good in duels, the other fast and technical.
Most importantly one of them is the "dominant" player. The one who decides, talks, reading the game, positioning etc.(VVD, Godin, Thiago Silva).

What we have among our CBs today are players that are strong and good in duels(Smalling), fast and good in duels(Bailly), technical(Lindelof), Jones(ok in all, but a walking error). What we do not have is a leader. Fans and pundits claiming that we lack leaders in our team are right, and the place where we lack one the most is at CB. We do not have the "dominant" CB, able to read the game, with good positional skills.

So our centrebacks have abilites that are useful as a CB, but they do not have abilites complementing each other and none of them is fit to be the "dominant" CB.
Buying a "dominant" CB from a top club in January is not realistic nor affordable.
The best we can get that also knows the league is Lascelles. While not on the same level as VVD, he is a leader/"dominant" CB, relatively comfortable on the ball, strong and better than our current options. He is also English and only 24 years old.
 
There really wasn't a problem with it in the first place. We conceded 1 less goal than City last season. What happened in 4 months to our centre backs? The problem is the midfield isn't giving enough protection this season.
We need to play a pressing game and stop inviting pressure on the defence. Play a high line with Smalling and Bailly because both of them are quick and strong enough to deal with counter attacks and play a dynamic midfield infront.

There's too much space in between our defence and midfield. Slow midfield is getting caught out of position and defence is trying to sit in the usual low block. The first goal we conceded on Saturday is an example of this.
 
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