There can’t be many supporters left who don’t think we’re an absolute shambles of a club. We supposedly have half a squad who want out and seemingly a rotten culture that needs to be eradicated. Indeed, for many, they would name maybe a handful of players they would be happy keeping with the rest of the squad they’d be glad to see the back of.
Between questions of who is actually good enough to be part of a title-winning team and talk of what it will actually take to bridge what could easily be another 30pt+ gap, it’s fair comment to think no one or two players can come into this team and turn the whole thing around, unless we’ve got Matthäus, Rijkaard, Robson or Keane-level regens to pick from, it’s literally not possible.
It’s fair comment to state that at least half of a league-winning sides’ players will be the best (or thereabouts) in the entire league; I don’t know how many of our players you’d put your house on to be instrumental in our next title win, which all leads to the question posed in the title.
Since Ferguson retired our position and points tally in the final standings per season is as follows:
2013-14: 7th - 64pts. 24pt gap
2014-15: 4th - 70pts. 17pt gap
2015-16: 5th - 66pts. 15pt gap
2016-17: 6th - 69pts. 24pt gap
2017-18: 2nd - 81pts. 19pt gap
2018-19: 6th - 66pts. 32pt gap
2019-20: 3rd - 66pts. 33pt gap
2020-21: 2nd - 74pts. 12pt gap
Contrasted with pre-Ferguson United:
1979-80: 2nd - 58pts^. 2pt gap
1980-81: 8th - 48pts^. 12pt gap
1981-82: 3rd - 78pts. 9pt gap
1982-83: 3rd - 70pts. 12pt gap
1983-84: 4th - 74pts. 6pt gap
1984-85: 4th - 76pts. 14pt gap
1985-86: 4th - 76pts. 12pt gap
^2pts for a win.
Ferguson sorting out the team/club and then winning the league:
1986-87: 11th - 56pts*. 30pt gap(!)
1987-88: 2nd - 81pts**. 9pt gap
1988-89: 11th - 51pts***. 25pt gap
1989-90: 13th - 48pts***. 31pt gap(!)
1990-91: 6th - 59pts***. 24pt gap
1991-92: 2nd - 78pts*. 4pt gap
*42-game campaign
**40-game campaign
***38-game campaign
Only Ferguson’s period of eradicating the lackadaisical culture that had seeped Into every pore of the red behemoth has been as bad in the last 40 years. Our period of dominance accepted, that’s a truly appalling position for one of the richest clubs in the world to be in, and what’s worse, we’re likely to see another period of upheaval as attempts to gut this squad and start over in earnest begin anew with whoever gets the permanent job.
The biggest takeaway I have about our post-Ferguson era is that our Champion League qualification is neck and neck with our UEFA places… forget the league: Manchester United have been 50:50 on qualifying to participate in the Champions League, which in turn means we’ve been equally likely of making fourth spot as not, which is obviously a damning bit of information given the outlay we’ve pissed up the wall in that time.
There’s no point in warbling on about our woes; the crux of the thread is to compare our state and wilderness pre-Fergie through to him turning the entire club around, to this malady, where it’s arguable that we’re in a worse state evidenced by so many things, not least that we haven’t been inside single digits of challenging for the title a single time in the final standings post-Ferguson.
Whether any of the above interests you or not, I want to ask these questions and hope for some considered discussion given it’s now more than fair to argue the task of turning us around is more mammoth than Ferguson himself encountered.
1. In terms of first league titles, will our next title-winning manager be ranked par or above Sirs Busby and Ferguson for turning us around? This is purely in reference to first league title achievement between the aforementioned and this as yet unknown saviour. If not, why not?
2. Busby had to build (rebuild) a club from the ashes; Ferguson had to eradicate a backward culture and rebuild us with new core values; this new guy will have to contend with utter incompetence at board level down and instill core values long since lost. I honestly don’t know what should be considered worse between an after-hours policy of complete unprofessionalism from players who would give everything they had come game time and what we have now with players who act like they’re the most winningest on the planet and have since lost the values that make a team a team - many say this is the most un-United type players they’ve seen at the club in one squad since they’ve been supporting, with good reason if you identify United players with not only being better players than the opposition, but also wanting the game/win more, too.
Anyway, the question is: how will you rank the next manager who wins the league for us in terms of the job he’ll have had to have done when contrasting it with the above and what our previous great managers had to contend with?
3. Out of interest, how many players that are at the club right now do you believe will be in our next title-winning squad?
4. Final question is: do you believe the task of turning us around is as mammoth as what Busby and Ferguson faced? If your answer is no, what do you believe makes the task easier given what I hope I’ve outlined throughout this thread?
I think we as fans realise we’re in a hole, but as far as turning this club around and having us win the league again, I reckon it’s collectively underplayed or even has some cognitive dissonance attached as people don’t want/like to deep dive on just how bad things are in relation to us being league champions again, either that or the collective agreement that the league is a write off until Pep and Klopp go no matter what we do or who we employ, l don’t know if I subscribe to that theory as not once have we employed a manager at the top of his game since the great man called it a day.
Between questions of who is actually good enough to be part of a title-winning team and talk of what it will actually take to bridge what could easily be another 30pt+ gap, it’s fair comment to think no one or two players can come into this team and turn the whole thing around, unless we’ve got Matthäus, Rijkaard, Robson or Keane-level regens to pick from, it’s literally not possible.
It’s fair comment to state that at least half of a league-winning sides’ players will be the best (or thereabouts) in the entire league; I don’t know how many of our players you’d put your house on to be instrumental in our next title win, which all leads to the question posed in the title.
Since Ferguson retired our position and points tally in the final standings per season is as follows:
2013-14: 7th - 64pts. 24pt gap
2014-15: 4th - 70pts. 17pt gap
2015-16: 5th - 66pts. 15pt gap
2016-17: 6th - 69pts. 24pt gap
2017-18: 2nd - 81pts. 19pt gap
2018-19: 6th - 66pts. 32pt gap
2019-20: 3rd - 66pts. 33pt gap
2020-21: 2nd - 74pts. 12pt gap
Contrasted with pre-Ferguson United:
1979-80: 2nd - 58pts^. 2pt gap
1980-81: 8th - 48pts^. 12pt gap
1981-82: 3rd - 78pts. 9pt gap
1982-83: 3rd - 70pts. 12pt gap
1983-84: 4th - 74pts. 6pt gap
1984-85: 4th - 76pts. 14pt gap
1985-86: 4th - 76pts. 12pt gap
^2pts for a win.
Ferguson sorting out the team/club and then winning the league:
1986-87: 11th - 56pts*. 30pt gap(!)
1987-88: 2nd - 81pts**. 9pt gap
1988-89: 11th - 51pts***. 25pt gap
1989-90: 13th - 48pts***. 31pt gap(!)
1990-91: 6th - 59pts***. 24pt gap
1991-92: 2nd - 78pts*. 4pt gap
*42-game campaign
**40-game campaign
***38-game campaign
Only Ferguson’s period of eradicating the lackadaisical culture that had seeped Into every pore of the red behemoth has been as bad in the last 40 years. Our period of dominance accepted, that’s a truly appalling position for one of the richest clubs in the world to be in, and what’s worse, we’re likely to see another period of upheaval as attempts to gut this squad and start over in earnest begin anew with whoever gets the permanent job.
The biggest takeaway I have about our post-Ferguson era is that our Champion League qualification is neck and neck with our UEFA places… forget the league: Manchester United have been 50:50 on qualifying to participate in the Champions League, which in turn means we’ve been equally likely of making fourth spot as not, which is obviously a damning bit of information given the outlay we’ve pissed up the wall in that time.
There’s no point in warbling on about our woes; the crux of the thread is to compare our state and wilderness pre-Fergie through to him turning the entire club around, to this malady, where it’s arguable that we’re in a worse state evidenced by so many things, not least that we haven’t been inside single digits of challenging for the title a single time in the final standings post-Ferguson.
Whether any of the above interests you or not, I want to ask these questions and hope for some considered discussion given it’s now more than fair to argue the task of turning us around is more mammoth than Ferguson himself encountered.
1. In terms of first league titles, will our next title-winning manager be ranked par or above Sirs Busby and Ferguson for turning us around? This is purely in reference to first league title achievement between the aforementioned and this as yet unknown saviour. If not, why not?
2. Busby had to build (rebuild) a club from the ashes; Ferguson had to eradicate a backward culture and rebuild us with new core values; this new guy will have to contend with utter incompetence at board level down and instill core values long since lost. I honestly don’t know what should be considered worse between an after-hours policy of complete unprofessionalism from players who would give everything they had come game time and what we have now with players who act like they’re the most winningest on the planet and have since lost the values that make a team a team - many say this is the most un-United type players they’ve seen at the club in one squad since they’ve been supporting, with good reason if you identify United players with not only being better players than the opposition, but also wanting the game/win more, too.
Anyway, the question is: how will you rank the next manager who wins the league for us in terms of the job he’ll have had to have done when contrasting it with the above and what our previous great managers had to contend with?
3. Out of interest, how many players that are at the club right now do you believe will be in our next title-winning squad?
4. Final question is: do you believe the task of turning us around is as mammoth as what Busby and Ferguson faced? If your answer is no, what do you believe makes the task easier given what I hope I’ve outlined throughout this thread?
I think we as fans realise we’re in a hole, but as far as turning this club around and having us win the league again, I reckon it’s collectively underplayed or even has some cognitive dissonance attached as people don’t want/like to deep dive on just how bad things are in relation to us being league champions again, either that or the collective agreement that the league is a write off until Pep and Klopp go no matter what we do or who we employ, l don’t know if I subscribe to that theory as not once have we employed a manager at the top of his game since the great man called it a day.