Identify your style and players

[OleTheGreat]

Let's say for example it is Pep, He knows exactly how he wants to setup and buys players that suit his system. The same goes with many managers around the world. In fact, we had LvG and Jose who tried to instill their style of football at United. I think Ole lacks that, he cannot find a system and does not recognize players from around the world who would fit his system.

Secondly, we have a squad of players who does not properly fit into a system and we do not have a manager who has a system which will properly engage all the players in this squad.

Rashford- Striker at the academy level and for most of his early playing career converted winger.
Martial- Striker converted winger by LvG and again converted back by Ole.
James- Left sided winger asked to play on the right.
Greenwood- Striker converted right winger.
Pogba- left sided offensive midfielder #8 converted to play a deep lying role in the double pivot.
VDB- plays #8 and #10 for Ajax converted to play a deeper role.
Fred- proper central midfielder again asked to play too deep.
Mata- #10 converted to play on the right.

I'm scared for Shola Shortire and Galbraith, they will suffer the same fate.

Why can't we find the players who actually fit a system or a manager who can manipulate a team and set up a system that works in everybody's benefit. I think we have a group of players who's played under 3 managers in 3 different systems and frankly forgot how to even play or what their role in this team is. We've also had so many changes in captaincy, Valencia>Young>De Gea>Pogba (briefly)>Maguire which is also an issue. 4-2-3-1 is not a proper system for this squad of players and it is evident to see every week.

 

[L1nk]

The problem is that you have diva players on huge contracts that need to continuously be pleased, with a manager almost unwilling to rotate, and the media ever eager to chastise.

Let's make the argument that Rashford, Martial and Greenwood should all be playing that central striker role, along with Cavani, of which there is only 1 space usually, sometimes 2. In 1999 when we have Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and Solskjaer, not only were they expected to rotate, they did so and they performed extremely well, and not always in the central striker roles.

Let's say we play none of those 4 out of position of central forward, and Rashford starts, there will then be outcry's of well if Greenwood doesn't get a game we're stifling his growth, oh but Martial FC can't leave him out, oh Cavani's our best striker why is he on the bench??

Put Martial there instead, oh but Rashford is Englands next big hope why isn't he starting? Greenwood's growth, Cavani's our best etc

Greenwood's there and he misses a chance, what the hell Cavani would have buried that why isn't he playing, Greenwood is overrated why isn't Rashford starting we might as well sell him if we aren't going to play him, put him out on the wing and get Martial upfront etc etc etc

Round and round it goes, I see your point and I totally agree, i hate this square pegs in round holes crap we've been dealing with for years, however, it's the managers fault as well, they should be able to adapt to the players they have and build a formation around that squad, and we've not had anyone tactically flexible enough to do that.

 

[cpresc]

I do partly agree BUT we are making progressing towards a profile of player, young, hungry, extremely talented, professional, humble...

thats definitely a big step in the right direction, look at who we’ve released and look at the youngsters we’ve signed.

 

[Judas]

When was VDB converted to play a deeper role? He's played as many games in the weird second striker role floating about doing bugger all than he has playing deep.

 

[bosnian_red]

Players are versatile and can play multiple positions until they find what's best for them. Rashford in his youth days played in any of the 3 positions behind the striker often times, whether it was on the right, in the hole, on the left. Greenwood definitely a striker. Martial in Monaco played on the left often. Pogba is a midfielder, it only became more apparent he couldn't cut it in a deeper role as he aged and never adapted to defensive needs of the highest level. VDB has been used as a 10 here but his style is that of an 8, and in Ajax played full seasons in each of the 3 midfield positions depending on who the others were (and in general should be used deeper here and not as a 10). James is fine on either side. Fred is playing center mid. Mata played a roaming right side role for a long time before we bought him.

What is an important difference is knowing how certain players can play certain positions in certain systems. A player like Mata can play on the right higher up in a Pep like system or heavily possession based system. But in a more direct system you need runners with the ball, pace and direct players there, with the guile coming through the middle.

I wouldn't say this is an issue at all. Bruno was exactly the type of player we needed as a 10. Wan Bissaka and Maguire were both very good signings. James' profile was the right type in terms of what we needed, but cheap and not really of a high enough level to be more than a squad player. Rashford is perfect on the left. Van de Beek is seemingly a pointless signing right now, but its year 1, things change quickly. We targeted Sancho but he was too expensive. We tried and failed to sign Haaland. There are so many variables in transfers, it's hard to get it spot on and even the most obvious of transfers can flop. Yes there is always some transition time, but you're exaggerating on how hard it is to change managers and system. They don't just forget how to do everything, don't be ridiculous. We've still had a low amount of managers over the past 7 years compared to the majority of football clubs.

Also, why is everyone so fecking dramatic. We were 3rd last year. We are 2nd now. Do people think we have a better squad or manager than City? Of course not. They're on pace for 92 points so far. We don't have one better than Liverpool either but they dropped off a bit after their last 2 years. We are doing alright overall. Yes we have some garbage performances. But that is because we aren't good enough to be more consistent and put in good performances every week. What we are good enough for is to be a top 3 team this season, hence us being 2nd after 2/3 of the season done. We were deservedly 3rd last season as well. You don't have to be dramatic at not being a true title challenger. We are obviously not there in terms of the squad, and we don't have Sir Alex/Pep or even at a stretch Klopp in charge who have consistently shown they can elevate players above any normal level in their systems. So no need to get dramatic.

 

[Patchbeard]

"Fred- proper central midfielder again asked to play too deep. "

Shouldn't a proper central midfielder at least have a decent passing range and shot? If anything we play Fred too far forwards enabling him to shoot waywardly every game.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Can we stop labelling either Martial and Rashford as central strikers.

If we continue to play either of them as our central striker, we’d be saying we need a new striker because neither are good enough to lead the line as a number.

They are both better out wide in attacking positions and arguably not very good at that either

 

[KiD MoYeS]

We need to accommodate our best player in his best position, Bruno. Unfortunately for the rest of the players none of them, bar maybe de Gea, have had as much of an impact on the team and so it is only fair he is played in his best role.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Players are versatile and can play multiple positions until they find what's best for them. Rashford in his youth days played in any of the 3 positions behind the striker often times, whether it was on the right, in the hole, on the left. Greenwood definitely a striker. Martial in Monaco played on the left often. Pogba is a midfielder, it only became more apparent he couldn't cut it in a deeper role as he aged and never adapted to defensive needs of the highest level. VDB has been used as a 10 here but his style is that of an 8, and in Ajax played full seasons in each of the 3 midfield positions depending on who the others were (and in general should be used deeper here and not as a 10). James is fine on either side. Fred is playing center mid. Mata played a roaming right side role for a long time before we bought him.

What is an important difference is knowing how certain players can play certain positions in certain systems. A player like Mata can play on the right higher up in a Pep like system or heavily possession based system. But in a more direct system you need runners with the ball, pace and direct players there, with the guile coming through the middle.

I wouldn't say this is an issue at all. Bruno was exactly the type of player we needed as a 10. Wan Bissaka and Maguire were both very good signings. James' profile was the right type in terms of what we needed, but cheap and not really of a high enough level to be more than a squad player. Rashford is perfect on the left. Van de Beek is seemingly a pointless signing right now, but its year 1, things change quickly. We targeted Sancho but he was too expensive. We tried and failed to sign Haaland. There are so many variables in transfers, it's hard to get it spot on and even the most obvious of transfers can flop. Yes there is always some transition time, but you're exaggerating on how hard it is to change managers and system. They don't just forget how to do everything, don't be ridiculous. We've still had a low amount of managers over the past 7 years compared to the majority of football clubs.

Also, why is everyone so fecking dramatic. We were 3rd last year. We are 2nd now. Do people think we have a better squad or manager than City? Of course not. They're on pace for 92 points so far. We don't have one better than Liverpool either but they dropped off a bit after their last 2 years. We are doing alright overall. Yes we have some garbage performances. But that is because we aren't good enough to be more consistent and put in good performances every week. What we are good enough for is to be a top 3 team this season, hence us being 2nd after 2/3 of the season done. We were deservedly 3rd last season as well. You don't have to be dramatic at not being a true title challenger. We are obviously not there in terms of the squad, and we don't have Sir Alex/Pep or even at a stretch Klopp in charge who have consistently shown they can elevate players above any normal level in their systems. So no need to get dramatic.

Absolutely spot on.

everyone needs to calm down and be realistic.

 

[hobbers]

You cannot say Rashford or Martial or Greenwood were converted to winger from striker.

Playing striker for the u15s doesnt make you a striker for life. Otherwise Jamie Carragher and Evra would also be strikers.

None of them have the right attributes to be a number 9. Rashford and Martial will never have the right attributes. Greenwood still has a chance maybe to develop them.

 

[bosnian_red]

You cannot say Rashford or Martial or Greenwood were converted to winger from striker.

Playing striker for the u15s doesnt make you a striker for life. Otherwise Jamie Carragher and Evra would also be strikers.

None of them have the right attributes to be a number 9. Rashford and Martial will never have the right attributes. Greenwood still has a chance maybe to develop them.

Greenwood for me is absolutely a striker and will never become anything relevant if he's persisted with as a winger. He's a terrific talent, massive potential, but only as a striker. On the right he's nothing for me.

 

[AltiUn]

Donny van de Beek does not play deep for us pretty much all his appearances have come at CAM.

We can't find players to suit the system because we change managers every 20 minutes, the next manager then has a bunch of players he has no use for. Maybe we shouldn't go for managers with completely different styles every time we get a new one.