Improving Old Trafford's Atmosphere

I made a post about this a few weeks ago, can't find it now. (If anyone could link it for me, much appreciated.)

The gist of it was that we must adapt as fans and learn to offer unwavering support irrespective of performance

Yesterday, however, was trash. That was the first time I ever considered my ticket "a waste of money." Nobody should have to endure whatever yesterday was, proper shit game.
 
TMDaines said:
Our songbook needs expanding. Only 3 of our starting 11 last night have songs that are sung at OT, and one of those is just Marouane Fellaini repeated over and over again.
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What? Really, no-one liked my suggestion in the latest PS thread?
SqueakyWeasel said:
Sunday Karaoke at the Lowrey was a surprisingly subdued affair this week …

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Manchester United: Song sheets and 'cheerleader' ideas discussed by club
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43484557

Song sheets and continental-style 'cheerleaders' with megaphones are among the ideas being discussed in an effort to improve the atmosphere at Manchester United's home games.

Manager Jose Mourinho has previously said that Old Trafford is too quiet.

The club were asked at a recent fans' forum if song sheets could be distributed at the turnstiles.

United said they would look into the idea, although it is highly unlikely to be implemented.

Meanwhile, the Premier League club will provide fans with a "full update" in May on the potential for having a women's team.

United have received intense criticism for their failure to field an adult women's side, at a time when local rivals Manchester City, plus Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, all have teams at the top end of the Women's Super League.

The Old Trafford club say the idea remains "under review at a high level of the club".

At the fans' forum, United said a women's team "isn't something that can happen overnight". They cite staffing and facilities as specific issues.

However, it is understood a women's side is part of the discussion around potential development of United's training site at the Cliff in Salford.

Megaphones? Instruments?
Fans' groups are apparently looking into whether it would be possible to replicate the atmosphere at grounds in countries such as Germany and Italy, where crowd involvement is 'conducted' by supporters with megaphones, backed by other fans with instruments.

United did introduce a singing section in the north-east corner of the ground but it has not made a significant improvement.

Both the club and fans' groups felt the situation was far better on Saturday, when the singing section was moved to the south-east corner of the stadium for the FA Cup quarter-final with Brighton.

However, this is the area normally reserved for away supporters and it is felt moving that section for league games is impractical given the number of season ticket holders in other parts of the ground.
 
I remember suggesting songsheets about 5 years back and there was a lot of opposition from our own fans - thats often the problem in making progress, there is always someone who disagrees

Personally I wouldnt like to see the megaphone style chant conductors or instruments at Old Trafford - its just not our way
 
I wonder how they will put "my old man" on a song sheet :lol:
What a ridiculous idea, just put together a singing section West Stand tier 1 so the whole stand is bouncing.
 
pocco said:
How big a difference would song sheets genuinely make? I think people would feel even more uncomfortable sitting and singing from a song sheet. Plus I doubt the club can print and distribute half the songs anyway due to the content/language.
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I think it could make some difference, there has been a lot of churn of fans over the years and Im sure many dont know all the songs - often songs start well as people seem to know the first bits and then they tail off. Although TBF you only need to search online nowadays to find most songs

Like you say, I doubt the club will ever print these though due to the content so it will probably need to come from the fans
 
Ballache said:
I wonder how they will put "my old man" on a song sheet :lol:
What a ridiculous idea, just put together a singing section West Stand tier 1 so the whole stand is bouncing.
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I think the reason they have never considered West for a singing section is due to the position of the family stand and that stupid exec area -
 
Some simple attacking, direct football at pace without having to hoof the ball up to Lukaku or Fellaini would do wonders in my opinion
 
LennonNL said:
Safe standing is the only way. I was using a friends season ticket in the lower east section, and everyone was trying to stand up to sing but got told to sit down again by stewards or terrible match goers. No one sings seated. That's why the atmosphere in upper stretford is infinitely better than anywhere else, they all stand.

I'm pretty sure people in the south stand don't even stand when a goal is scored lol
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I sit in the East stand upper but for the Brighton game was offered the chance to move to the "singing section" usually reserved for the away fans, the atmosphere was superb and with no pressure from stewards to sit down we all stood and sang for the whole game. I agree that more safe standing areas would definitely improve the atmosphere and possibly make the singing areas more easily accessible to season ticket holders in other areas.
 
Rood said:
I think the reason they have never considered West for a singing section is due to the position of the family stand and that stupid exec area -
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The Family stand being in the west is stupid. You have families with kids and just above them 5000 pissed up fans swearing and chanting. Move them somewhere else.
 
I fecking detest "song-leaders" and supporter bands and all that coreographed rubbish that gets trotted out as examples of great atmosphere. The lack of singing in the ground is not caused by the lack of a tradition of vocal support - it's the direct result of transforming Old Trafford from somewhere that was easily accessible to ordinary people into a high end consumer treat, "a Disneyland for adults". We don't need some approved superfan cheerleader astroturf solution led by some twat with a megaphone, we just need affordable tickets. I would rather we rather we played behind closed doors than have to listen to some club-sanctioned bellend parping "Glory, Glory Man United" from a trombone.
 
Rood said:
I remember suggesting songsheets about 5 years back and there was a lot of opposition from our own fans - thats often the problem in making progress, there is always someone who disagrees

Personally I wouldnt like to see the megaphone style chant conductors or instruments at Old Trafford - its just not our way
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Well the current way isn't working is it? Time to try something new, don't like the song sheets idea, that sounds well naff.
 
Rood said:
Manchester United: Song sheets and 'cheerleader' ideas discussed by club
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43484557

Song sheets and continental-style 'cheerleaders' with megaphones are among the ideas being discussed in an effort to improve the atmosphere at Manchester United's home games.

Manager Jose Mourinho has previously said that Old Trafford is too quiet.

The club were asked at a recent fans' forum if song sheets could be distributed at the turnstiles.

United said they would look into the idea, although it is highly unlikely to be implemented.

Meanwhile, the Premier League club will provide fans with a "full update" in May on the potential for having a women's team.

United have received intense criticism for their failure to field an adult women's side, at a time when local rivals Manchester City, plus Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, all have teams at the top end of the Women's Super League.

The Old Trafford club say the idea remains "under review at a high level of the club".

At the fans' forum, United said a women's team "isn't something that can happen overnight". They cite staffing and facilities as specific issues.

However, it is understood a women's side is part of the discussion around potential development of United's training site at the Cliff in Salford.

Megaphones? Instruments?
Fans' groups are apparently looking into whether it would be possible to replicate the atmosphere at grounds in countries such as Germany and Italy, where crowd involvement is 'conducted' by supporters with megaphones, backed by other fans with instruments.

United did introduce a singing section in the north-east corner of the ground but it has not made a significant improvement.

Both the club and fans' groups felt the situation was far better on Saturday, when the singing section was moved to the south-east corner of the stadium for the FA Cup quarter-final with Brighton.

However, this is the area normally reserved for away supporters and it is felt moving that section for league games is impractical given the number of season ticket holders in other parts of the ground.
Click to expand...

 
I do like the continental atmospheres, with the fans down the front not even watching the game but just rallying the supporters, they get in early and no one leaves before full time, they don't even break song when they concede a goal. It's quite a spectacle. They celebrate the team they support and not what is happening. That's admirable.

But the thought of that being brought into Premier League football seems bizarre. Palace try and emulate it at their home games and for some reason it comes across as tacky. City 'doing the Poznan' was just hilarious. For reasons I can't explain, I think United trying to copy what they do abroad would be really weak. I don't really know why.

But football is opposed to change by nature, right down to its very core. We don't like change and we don't like to be copyists, though we're stuck in a catch 22 of refusing to change but knowing it's not just going to get better on its own. Some seem to think that playing great football will have the place moving again, but I remember going to games during one of our best ever eras, 06-09, and the place was often silent outside of big games. You could hear Fergie barking orders from the 2nd tier of the north stand, yet we played great football at that point and would often blow teams away. The problem goes far beyond style.

Singing section is the only thing that will be widely accepted, but the club seems to implement that on a haphazard basis.
 
"Song sheets and continental-style 'cheerleaders' with megaphones are among the ideas being discussed in an effort to improve the atmosphere at Manchester United's home games.

Manager Jose Mourinho has previously said that Old Trafford is too quiet."

The club were asked at a recent fans' forum if song sheets could be distributed at the turnstiles.

United said they would look into the idea, although it is highly unlikely to be implemented.

Fans' groups are apparently looking into whether it would be possible to replicate the atmosphere at grounds in countries such as Germany and Italy, where crowd involvement is 'conducted' by supporters with megaphones, backed by other fans with instruments.

United did introduce a singing section in the north-east corner of the ground but it has not made a significant improvement.

Both the club and fans' groups felt the situation was far better on Saturday, when the singing section was moved to the south-east corner of the stadium for the FA Cup quarter-final with Brighton.

However, this is the area normally reserved for away supporters and it is felt moving that section for league games is impractical given the number of season ticket holders in other parts of the ground."

Again, they really don't have a club about fan culture and atmosphere.

Too many working class lads and lasses have been outpriced or become disenfranchised by the running of the club.

Fans moaned about the atmosphere in the 90s but the club were on its way to world domination so these concerns were ignored.

Suddenly, when the team isn't do "that" well these concerns are deemed valid and the club feel they should look like they care again.
 
Let's not forget the club's insipid attempts to sanitise the fans songs towards the end of the Keith Fane era of being matchday mc. The reworking of the You are my Solskjaer alone should tell you what the club would print in terms of song sheets.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
I do like the continental atmospheres, with the fans down the front not even watching the game but just rallying the supporters, they get in early and no one leaves before full time, they don't even break song when they concede a goal. It's quite a spectacle. They celebrate the team they support and not what is happening. That's admirable.

But the thought of that being brought into Premier League football seems bizarre. Palace try and emulate it at their home games and for some reason it comes across as tacky. City 'doing the Poznan' was just hilarious. For reasons I can't explain, I think United trying to copy what they do abroad would be really weak. I don't really know why.

But football is opposed to change by nature, right down to its very core. We don't like change and we don't like to be copyists, though we're stuck in a catch 22 of refusing to change but knowing it's not just going to get better on its own. Some seem to think that playing great football will have the place moving again, but I remember going to games during one of our best ever eras, 06-09, and the place was often silent outside of big games. You could hear Fergie barking orders from the 2nd tier of the north stand, yet we played great football at that point and would often blow teams away. The problem goes far beyond style.

Singing section is the only thing that will be widely accepted, but the club seems to implement that on a haphazard basis.
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And a return to safe standing, flags etc
 
Rood said:
I think it could make some difference, there has been a lot of churn of fans over the years and Im sure many dont know all the songs - often songs start well as people seem to know the first bits and then they tail off. Although TBF you only need to search online nowadays to find most songs

Like you say, I doubt the club will ever print these though due to the content so it will probably need to come from the fans
Click to expand...

I get what you mean.

Maybe the club should look into some sort of app or a section on the website that has the words for each song and videos of the fans belting them out. Logistically printing a full list of songs for every attendee at every game might be enough to put the club off. I think this might be best done on an app or something like that.

Plus sometimes just reading the words without an idea of how the tune goes might not make sense, hence a video or audio file might help.
 
It's a tough one as It's not just one reason and combined they are not all easy to fix.

Firstly I have to say the football is partly to blame. Poor or defensive football is not conducive to a great atmosphere. Sustained attacking football gets the place rocking and allows little time for people to lose interest, talk or check their phones or take videos and pictures.

Next the amount of day trippers and half and half scarf wearing fans who don't know any of the songs.

Constantly being told to sit down not just by the stewards but by many of the surrounding fans (this happens in all sections of the ground) is another huge problem and often puts people in a bad mood. Often being told not to stand and sing and getting dodgy looks or being tutted at when you do also creates a bad atmosphere amongst our own fans. It also doesn't make the prospect of attending games as appealing.

I'm not sure how all those problems can be easily solved. More safe standing, better football and song sheets would definitely all help though.
 
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Just play a more exciting brand of football, & the fans will get more supportive. obviously this is a bit beyond the board & manager to grasp.
 
pocco said:
I get what you mean.

Maybe the club should look into some sort of app or a section on the website that has the words for each song and videos of the fans belting them out. Logistically printing a full list of songs for every attendee at every game might be enough to put the club off. I think this might be best done on an app or something like that.

Plus sometimes just reading the words without an idea of how the tune goes might not make sense, hence a video or audio file might help.
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Its actually better that it doesnt come from the club - it should be fan led and realistically its only going to be targeted at fans in East and West, not the whole ground

But anyway it probably wont happen as I mentioned before, there is a lot of opposition to this kind of thing within our fanbase


Vault Dweller said:


I absolutely love that.
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it is cool and Ive been at ground with that kind of thing but our fans will not go for that at all
 
Rood said:
it is cool and Ive been at ground with that kind of thing but our fans will not go for that at all
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Oh agreed, I can't see it being implemented at Old Trafford, but I always think that is one thing that whips an atmosphere up into a frenzy and I would love to be in the middle of that lol.
 
Rood said:
I think the reason they have never considered West for a singing section is due to the position of the family stand and that stupid exec area -
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Ballache said:
The Family stand being in the west is stupid. You have families with kids and just above them 5000 pissed up fans swearing and chanting. Move them somewhere else.
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Mainly this.
Putting an exec section there is akin to putting 3 cylinder 1.2 engine in a sports car for economy reasons, then complaining about performance.
Same with the family stand.
It's not like when I was a kid, where you'd go to the front and swear, away from your dad.
Kids and dads are inhibited.

The singing section had a negative impact on the west stand too. It reduced the vociferous fans there.

What made the stretty so special was that you chose to be there for the atmosphere. It was a cauldron of vitriol with lowered inhibitions. If watching the game was more important you could go elsewhere.
You had to put in effort to stake a claim for your spot. We would be there 2 hours before kick off to secure our place on the left of the tunnel.

It's all too sanitised and convenient now, and that is to help policing. To identify individual troublemakers etc.

A ticket to an exec-free, family-free stretty, where you claim your spot by getting in early would be much better. It won't happen though.it isn't conducive to knowing who the security cameras are pointing at.
 
How about the team start performing, like that first half v Liverpool, and get the crowd onside with them. At the minute it's all a bit 'after you, no after you..', maybe just maybe if the handbrake comes off and we play the utd way things wouldn't get to the stage where the manager is commentating how quiet we are. Give us something to shout about.
 
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Verminator said:
Mainly this.
Putting an exec section there is akin to putting 3 cylinder 1.2 engine in a sports car for economy reasons, then complaining about performance.
Same with the family stand.
It's not like when I was a kid, where you'd go to the front and swear, away from your dad.
Kids and dads are inhibited.

The singing section had a negative impact on the west stand too. It reduced the vociferous fans there.

What made the stretty so special was that you chose to be there for the atmosphere. It was a cauldron of vitriol with lowered inhibitions. If watching the game was more important you could go elsewhere.
You had to put in effort to stake a claim for your spot. We would be there 2 hours before kick off to secure our place on the left of the tunnel.

It's all too sanitised and convenient now, and that is to help policing. To identify individual troublemakers etc.

A ticket to an exec-free, family-free stretty, where you claim your spot by getting in early would be much better. It won't happen though.it isn't conducive to knowing who the security cameras are pointing at.
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Honestly, I doubt the club wants the kind of atmosphere we all want. OT is always full and it's full with people that are a lot easier to police.
If we on Redcafe know what the solution is, I doubt that they don't. They just like it the way it is.
Also regarding the whole "if the team performs better argument" that's a load of shite, atmosphere has been shit for a long time. All you need to do is to watch an away game to see the kind of atmosphere United fans are capable of generating with the right logistical support from the club. They don't want it though, they'll distribute song sheets and say "we tried".
 
The best atmospheres I've experienced in recent years have been under Moyes, when we played our worst football, so it isn't simply a case of playing more attacking football or playing "the United way". Obviously, the on-field performances have an effect, but the club / fans need to be more proactive if they want to create a better atmosphere at Old Trafford.
 
It's an understatement to say Manchester has a rich cultural heritage, the music scene from Manchester practically defines the UK in the 90's, like Liverppol probably defines 1960's UK. Surely there is a song from one of the local bands that just sums up the city? Or has the ability to get a crowd going in unison? Obviously Liverpool have it with You'll Never Walk Alone. In my opinion nothing absolutely nothing comes close to hearing the Hibs fans singing Sunshine on Leith, what makes it so special is that it is completely unique to sunny Leith (where Hibernian football club is based) and the Hibs supporters. There must be a Manchester band with a song unique to Manchester, that would get the entire crowd on their feet belting it out?

Just a thought.

Didn't Shane McGowan write Dirty old town about Manchester?
 
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Glaswegian said:
It's an understatement to say Manchester has a rich cultural heritage, the music scene from Manchester practically defines the UK in the 90's, like Liverppol probably defines 1960's UK. Surely there is a song from one of the local bands that just sums up the city? Or has the ability to get a crowd going in unison? Obviously Liverpool have it with You'll Never Walk Alone. In my opinion nothing absolutely nothing comes close to hearing the Hibs fans singing Sunshine on Leith, what makes it so special is that it is completely unique to sunny Leith (where Hibernian football club is based) and the Hibs supporters. There must be a Manchester band with a song unique to Manchester, that would get the entire crowd on their feet belting it out?

Just a thought.

Didn't Shane McGowan write Dirty old town about Manchester?
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the team come out every game to This is The One
 
Ballache said:
Honestly, I doubt the club wants the kind of atmosphere we all want. OT is always full and it's full with people that are a lot easier to police.
If we on Redcafe know what the solution is, I doubt that they don't. They just like it the way it is.
Also regarding the whole "if the team performs better argument" that's a load of shite, atmosphere has been shit for a long time. All you need to do is to watch an away game to see the kind of atmosphere United fans are capable of generating with the right logistical support from the club. They don't want it though, they'll distribute song sheets and say "we tried".
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Not much to disagree with there.
I do think it is the police that want the seat to name connect, though.

The build up is big thing too. Away fans spend more time together before games, usually with beers.
Our 50 something season ticket holders aim to park up, and get in 5 minutes before kick off.
 
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