In a world with Sancho and no Busquets/Carrick like options, do we need a playmaking 8 (and need a world class 6 as a result)?

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

Last season, all our creativity came from Bruno at 10, Pogba at 8 (or left midfield) and Shaw as the leftback.

With Sancho, we will have one of the most creative wide players. We are also still looking to get an attacking rightback as an option for low block teams.

This is not a Pogba-bashing thread by any means, since he is a fantastic player in the right system, but can we build a solid functional team with no gaps by instead playing 2 box-to-box midfielders instead of trying to find that elusive Carrick like 6 that could pair with Pogba.

We have been linked with the following mids
Camavinga
Goretzka
Saul

2 of the above 3 are out of contract in a year, and Saul is available for a reasonable price.

Would the front 6 below be defensively compact but with enough creativity and goals?
------------------------Cavani
Rash/Martial-----Bruno---------Sancho
----------------Cama/Saul----Goretzka

That looks like a really good team, but no way are we getting goretzka this summer. And I don't think it's a good idea to replace half a first team in one transfer (we need a cb too ofc). I think this is a good option for next year - then instead of changing our shape we're just looking for upgrades for scott and fred, and we are prepared to lose pogba. We could get 1 this summer (I'd love Camavinga, and he'd be cheapest both in wages and price tag, but he's also the one who wouldn't go straight into the first team)

Most of our later SAF teams had disciplined, organised midfields and invention coming from the flanks, and we'd be going back to that.

That said, on personal preference I would rather keep pogba because there is no footballer in the world who I like watching more than him.

 

[Green_Red]

If we add Sancho to the starting lineup you would imagine to get Pogba and Bruno into the team you can only play one other midfielder so the McFred partnership will probably become a plan B.

Surely this is our starting XI now?

Rashford Cavani Sancho
Pogba Bruno
mcT/Fred
Shaw Maguire Lindelof AWB

We are definitely recruiting to allow us to play a diamond in midfield.

 

[MancFanFromManc]

Our midfield is the oddest in the Prem. We have Pogba and Bruno who are probably the best two CAM's in the country but the rest are an enigma. You want 3 things from a midfielder: They should be able to run, pass AND tackle. Its astonishing that none of our options can do all 3! Scott is probably the closest we have. Go through the list and you'll see what I mean

This is why we have to have 2 DM's. Partly because we cant rely on the defence, but also because we dont have one player who can do the job. Rice would be perfect imo. But there's must be options who can do those 3 basic things!!

 

[RiqCantona]

I think this is exactly why the number 6 is important and why we need to sign a DM.
- If we are to keep and unleash the true potential of Pogba, we need someone like Rice/Camaviga to play beside him just like Kante does.
- If we sell him, we still need to sign a DM because we can't rely on McFred to control every game.

 

[Marwood]

Having McTominay and Fred is fine stylistically. I much prefer two rounded CM's as opposed to a specialist holding midfielder.

The only problem is that as a team we're sloppy on the ball and those two are part of that.

If they can tidy up their passing and first touch they'd be fine.

But I'm not sure they can. So what we need is a similar type but of a higher level. I'm hopeful between Garner and Mejbri we might already have that player.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Pogba is IMO World-Class. But to get the best out of him you would have to get less out of Bruno Fernandes. Both are best in the final third and they aren't both going to play in the final third of the pitch.

Selling Pogba and signing, for example, Goretzka or Rice, just offers the squad so much more balance and would get much more out of our attacking players IMO.

Fred and McTominay playing so often shows what Solskjaer wants to do, but they're both squad players and not players who should be starting every week. I'm positive Solskjaer would sanction Pogba leaving if it meant funds towards a more balanced midfielder.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Pogba Fred
Bruno
Sancho Martial Rashford

try this​

 

[Adam-Utd]

Pogba is IMO World-Class. But to get the best out of him you would have to get less out of Bruno Fernandes. Both are best in the final third and they aren't both going to play in the final third of the pitch.

Selling Pogba and signing, for example, Goretzka or Rice, just offers the squad so much more balance and would get much more out of our attacking players IMO.

Fred and McTominay playing so often shows what Solskjaer wants to do, but they're both squad players and not players who should be starting every week. I'm positive Solskjaer would sanction Pogba leaving if it meant funds towards a more balanced midfielder.

Pogba barely enters the box for France and is deemed to be "better" than when he plays for United.

He doesn't need to be more forward, he just needs his forwards to be awake and making runs. His first thought when receiving the ball is to look for the killer pass over the top. That's why when it doesn't come ,he's often caught on the ball while he then decides what to do next with it.

 

[Borys]

A midfield 3 of Bruno, Pogba, Camavinga could definitely work as long as Bruno offers defensive cover as well, he's more than capable of doing so. I feel like Bruno would benefit from a stricter role positionally, he was outstanding in the first half of last season playing the free role though so it would be a hard call.

Bruno is our worst player defensively. My grandma could get past him. He works hard but has absolutely terrible instincts. It's part of the reason the midfield has to be more restricted.

 

[luke511]

Bruno is our worst player defensively. My grandma could get past him. He works hard but has absolutely terrible instincts. It's part of the reason the midfield has to be more restricted.

True, I feel like if he had a stricter role within the midfield to swap roles with Pogba or Camavinga when they make runs forward then there would be a possibility of it working. Wishful thinking though, would love to see it experimented with if we do end up signing Camavinga.

 

[Matthew84!]

Utd just need someone who can win the ball back and make a simple pass, we've got Pogba and Bruno who tries the amazing pass and ends up giving it away, if someone can simple win it back and pass that's all we need.
Fred makes loads of tackles covers alot of ground but then he gives the ball back to the opposition, we can't have 3 in the team that do that.
If we make our defence better we will only need 1 who sits in front of the defence.

 

[Devil may care]

This would be ideal, Pogba is in the last year of his contract and will always be a liability in a midfield with a #10 as part of the 3. So if PSG are willing to offer a good fee for him then revamping the midfield pivot with 2 midfield additions would be great as nether of McFred should be starters.

 

[CanadianUtd]

spot on on OP


*fingers crossed* — it’s Camavinga time!

 

[SinNombre]

Pogba to PSG and Cama to United intensifying.

I think both are the correct moves.

Question is who else should United go for in the midfield is this transpires.

Without Pogba, you lose his attacking carries and through ball passing but you gain with a player like Cama, a lot more pressing and tackling on and off the ball.

A Goretzka would obviously be a fantastic pipe dream but purely in terms of statistical combinations to a Cama (or Fred), Locatelli would be a great part of the double pivot which would provide both balance and we don't lose out on attacking carries and creativity.

 

[Alfie092]

Bruno won't be effective more deeper as he is poor defensively.

If Pogba leaves I do believe a midfield 2 of Camavinga and Saul would be a pairing I'm excited about. Energetic, good pace, good on the ball, can progress with the ball and break the lines. I know Saul is more of an 8 but he has experience playing as a 6, haven't really seen Camavinga play but from what I know, his best position is as a 6?

Even if they are not the best defensively, we can use keeping the ball as our form of defence, which we couldn't do with Fred and McTominay...

Also with Varane in there and with the form Maguire is showing, our defence would be stronger than ever.

 

[paulscholes18]

Pogba Fred
Bruno
Sancho Martial Rashford

try this​

Hate that combination with a passion, both lack the positional discipline to play together, the 1 win in the last 2 years when they have played in a two together some that up.

 

[DSG]

There is a trend to play a sort of inverted triangle with the 3 midfielders in a 4-3-3, versus the typical 4-2-3-1 version. The base of the triangle is a deep lying playmaker, like Jorginho, who is positionally astute, and takes on the task of initiating the attack. In addition, this player, rarely, if ever, gives away the ball. The other two CMs are more or less ball winning CMs, possession recyclers with some forward runs into the box.

Like this:

CM. CM

DLP

Liverpool is the best example of this. Pre-Tuchel Chelsea, Italy, Juventus use a similar set up. This is a pressing formation as you have a total of 5 that have the freedom to press high.

In a 4-2-3-1, we’ve tried to play with Pogba as part of the two, but in this formation, the tip of the triangle (Bruno) is the hub. It’s less about pressing and winning the ball back and more about springing the wingers with incisive passing. To be sure, Pogba’s long range passing is sublime at times, and he’s quite good at distribution. Unfortunately, his defensive positioning is poor, his work rate is poor, and he frequently loses possession. Putting him in the two is really tricky and he really doesn’t fit. Fred doesn’t really tick those boxes either. He’s more of a ball winner and is a bit undisciplined, also losing possession too frequently. I see Scott as a classic box-to-box who fits an inverted system as above. Bruno COULD play as a CM, but his brilliance is finishing off attacking moves with a final pass or shot. Why would you change that?

Your options are to do one of the following:
1. Find a classic midfielder who will do all of the dirty work Pogba can’t do, and try to pair him with Pogba. Difficult to find such a player. Not sure Camavinga is the one. Needs to also be a very good passer who doesn’t lose possession when we are breaking the press.
2. Get rid of Pogba and replace with a more defensive minded midfielder who can also pass. Maybe Saul, possibly Camavinga, Locatelli, Veratti, Goretzka (not likely). This would allow Fred or McT to play as a partner, but again, neither one totally fits.
3. Change to the inverted triangle 4-3-3, where Fred and McT are CMs and bring in a deep lying playmaker. Also, sell Pogba. Not likely as Bruno would either play as a CM or be shunted out to the wing.

You saw Ole trying to mitigate Pogba’s deficiencies by playing a diamond, but the Sancho addition would mean they are committed to a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 and don’t plan on playing the diamond much.

I see options #1 and #2 as the most viable. I think that the addition of Sancho will affect formation and Pogba’s inclusion in the starting 11. Hopefully, we’ll get this sorted out before the start of the season.

 

[gtg brb]

2. Get rid of Pogba and replace with a more defensive minded midfielder who can also pass. Maybe Saul, possibly Camavinga, Locatelli, Veratti, Goretzka (not likely). This would allow Fred or McT to play as a partner, but again, neither one totally fits.

This. I love Pogba to death (when he's on form), but I think Sancho is actually his replacement -- not positionally, but for his offensive creativity. We have good creativity on the left w/ Shaw and Rashford, playmaking all over the place w/ Bruno, and Sancho will provide more excellence from the right. Pogba is an amazing talent but it pains me to say that he makes our setup unbalanced.

With Rashford, Bruno, and Sancho supplying Cavani/Greenwood, our front four will be plenty exciting. We don't need world class playmaking behind them, we need solidity and transition -- someone who keeps possession, breaks up attacks, and moves the play forward to the playmakers. So I don't think that means getting a DLP, but we do need upgrades/competition for Fred/McTominay. Perhaps one or both will continue to improve, but they also need to feel challenged for their positions. Of course, upgrading Lindelof with someone faster would help them massively too.

Either way, I don't see a place for Pogba -- we can't have him in a pair if Bruno is the third (and Bruno for me is the most undroppable player on the team), and we don't play a diamond enough for it to make sense keeping him.