Interesting when all this rivalry changed

[Robbo]

Watched a documentary the other day where Dennis law said that if United did not win the league in the mid 60's they wanted another north west team to win it..and included Liverpool in that.

After today with United fans celebrating that the scousers might bottle it at the last...I find myself now hoping that City win it because EVEN them winning it would be preferable to Liverpool especially with their over representation in the media.

But when did all that change. I don't recall the 70's in any great detail but hated LFC in the 80's with a passion probably borne out of jealousy over their success..but was their a defining moment?..any older reds know if there was a time when the worm turned and the rivalry between Utd and LFC became hatred...

 

[That'sHernandez]

Watched a documentary the other day where Dennis law said that if United did not win the league in the mid 60's they wanted another north west team to win it.

That attitude hasn't changed, as long as it's not City or Liverpool I'm more than happy for another NW team to win the league or a trophy. I always root for other NW teams to stay in the PL and get promoted into it.

 

[Cal?]

This may have something to do with growing up enduring 18-4 jibes all the time...

 

[Invictus]

This is a really good watch and touches upon some of issues surrounding United's rivalry with Liverpool. I'd paste the single file download links but it might be considered copyright infringement..

IMO I could be wrong but seems to me that United's success under Sir Alex after years of watching Liverpool sweeping the league left right and centre and winning 4 European Cups took the rivalry another notch. He just reversed the roles and took the rug from underneath Liverpool's feet with us being serial champions and them being perpetual underdogs.

 

[FujiVice]

It isn't 1968 anymore. Football is a bitter game, filled with people with small time mentality or a hollier than thou mentality. From the fans to the players to the technically staff to the owners to the pundits, its just filled with people who cant see the forest from the trees. Nobody has any credibility, nobody agrees with anything even if it can be backed up by facts and if we had a racist playing up front for us, the same supports who had a go at Suarez would be wearing his shirt. Most of us are hypocrites, sadly. Its the "what have you done for me lately" mentality. Its what you sign up for when you watch football. Leave your morals at the door. Maybe if it was affordable and you went with your mates every week knowing you weren't paying out the arse for it, it would be better. But my Grandad and my Dad cant afford it, so they aren't into it like they were. That cant be an extreme example. Its a really expensive hobby.

 

[Richard Cranium]

It'll put them one closer to claiming they're the most successful English club again. They've been ever so bitter in our success. Who remembers when we equaled their title count and the OFFICIAL website for LFC put up an article about two local league titles won during the war, claiming we hadn't therefore knocked them off their perch.

On a purely objective football basis, I'd want them to win. Decent amount of English players, a likable manager, attacking football, not being funded by oil but rather by their own fan base, etc. It's just having to deal with their fans, the media (who have been froffing at the proverbial gash since early March) furor about the rise from the ashes, seeing Gerrard lift a PL title, how deluded RAWK would be.

In short, they deserve it more than City and Chelsea if don't consider the less games played.

However, it'd be easier to dismiss either of the plastic clubs winning it as "they've bought another trophy".

 

[Sir A1ex]

I don't really know about how things were 50 years ago, but I know that one thing that pisses me off is people on here who complain that it's small-time to desperately want them to fail at all costs.

This whole "you hate Liverpool more than you love MUFC" thing... well no, I don't, but it's close. Sorry, but this is how I feel and I can't change it - seeing somebody, anybody, else pip them to the title would be magnificent end to the season, I'd be nearly as elated as I am watching United win.

If people want to pass comment on whether or not that makes me a good fan, they can feel free, but I don't give a flying shit about their opinion.

 

[lysglimt]

Liverpool deserve it - Gerrard deserves it - they have been the best club - they play the best football.

But I just can't get myself to wanting Liverpool to win how hard I try. Maybe if Suarez didn't play there, it could have been possible. But the thought of watching him lift the Trophy is the killer for me.

As for the rivalry - I started supporting United with Stapleton (I was about 8 at the time and he was my hero because I thought he looked cool in some football cards I got). But I can remember rivalry with Liverpool from I was 9-10 at least, but I must be honest enough to admit that jealousy certainly played a big part due to them winning Everything.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I don't really know about how things were 50 years ago, but I know that one thing that pisses me off is people on here who complain that it's small-time to desperately want them to fail at all costs.

This whole "you hate Liverpool more than you love MUFC" thing... well no, I don't, but it's close. Sorry, but this is how I feel and I can't change it - seeing somebody, anybody, else pip them to the title would be magnificent end to the season, I'd be nearly as elated as I am watching United win.

If people want to pass comment on whether or not that makes me a good fan, they can feel free, but I don't give a flying shit about their opinion.

It is. And it's been like that for as long as I can remember. It's no use telling me they're not plastic and that they've played good football, etc. It makes zero difference to me.

 

[Sir A1ex]

It is. And it's been like that for as long as I can remember. It's no use telling me they're not plastic and that they've played good football, etc. It makes zero difference to me.

Exactly.

If they had a last minute penalty against Newcastle to win the league, and Roman walked out on to the pitch and handed Gerrard £100m in cash in return for him missing it, nothing would make me happier! (And you know the cnut would take it!)

 

[Sally Cinnamon]

I don't really know about how things were 50 years ago, but I know that one thing that pisses me off is people on here who complain that it's small-time to desperately want them to fail at all costs.

This whole "you hate Liverpool more than you love MUFC" thing... well no, I don't, but it's close. Sorry, but this is how I feel and I can't change it - seeing somebody, anybody, else pip them to the title would be magnificent end to the season, I'd be nearly as elated as I am watching United win.

If people want to pass comment on whether or not that makes me a good fan, they can feel free, but I don't give a flying shit about their opinion.

Spot on.

 

[B20]

I don't actually hate United. But watching you serially win titles without us winning one for the past 20 years, I'll happily see it go to anyone but your lot.

Maybe in a couple of years, with a few titles under our belt () I'll have a saner perspective and could live with you winning stuff the same way I would have liked Everton to finish 4th this season.

 

[Siorac]

I don't actually hate United. But watching you serially win titles without us winning one for the past 20 years, I'll happily see it go to anyone but your lot.

Maybe in a couple of years, with a few titles under our belt () I'll have a saner perspective and could live with you winning stuff the same way I would have liked Everton to finish 4th this season.

Nah. If that happens (God forbid!) we'll be bitter, vitriolic and twisted about it. And you'll want that to continue, forever. Trust me, I'm speaking from experience here.

 

[alibaba]

Watched a documentary the other day where Dennis law said that if United did not win the league in the mid 60's they wanted another north west team to win it..and included Liverpool in that.

After today with United fans celebrating that the scousers might bottle it at the last...I find myself now hoping that City win it because EVEN them winning it would be preferable to Liverpool especially with their over representation in the media.

But when did all that change. I don't recall the 70's in any great detail but hated LFC in the 80's with a passion probably borne out of jealousy over their success..but was their a defining moment?..any older reds know if there was a time when the worm turned and the rivalry between Utd and LFC became hatred...

Beside their own supporters, which opposing supporters loves a team of Champions. Frankly speaking none.
How many supporters of opposing teams loves Manchester United during SAF charge? None I am sure. Most of them hated us like hell but it is not really hatred. Like you said it is borne out of jealousy.

It's not the 70's or their success in the 80's. Most of us were envious of their success no doubt about that but the hatred started when the behaviour of their supporters at the Heysel stadium in 1985 got English Clubs banned from Europe.

 

[dumbo]

I don't think it's a local thing. I think most fans of teams in the prem would prefer anyone over Liverpool. Everyone hates United and most despise the 'financial doping' at Chelsea and City, Arsenal are crybabies and Spurs have Levy. But Liverpool seem to represent an unpleasant (unwarranted?) holier than thou arrogance and condescension that tops anything and gets everyones backs up.

The whole 'bigger' club thing seems primarily to be a Liverpool fan barb aimed at any team above or around them in the league - previously United and Arsenal, then Chelsea and City and now in recent years Spurs, Everton and the likes of Newcastle.

Or at least that's how it seems when reading other message boards. RAWK and the way many opposition fan forums speak about that site seem symptomatic of the general view.

I think Heysel and jealousy may have been factors 20-30 years ago but not now. Heysel is just a cheap stick to beat them with.

 

[Red For Ever]

As the only Manchester United fan playing for Liverpool schoolboys in the early 1970s I took a lot of stick, and I had a lot of admiration for Shankly, despite that seeing them lose gives me greater pleasure than seeing City lose.