With most coaches we pretty much know their philosophy, Jose, Conte, Simeone are defensive minded first, Guardiola is a possession based attacking coach, Poch is a fast tempo narrow attacking coach, Klopp is a pressing based attacking coach, Ferguson was a fast tempo attacking coach who used width, Wenger was a possession based attacking coach, and so on. What is Ole’s style? Tactically? It’s something that never really gets talked about. Are we a primarily attacking or defensive team? We seem to average quite a low number of goals from open play, although last season we had periods where we scored a lot & didn’t concede many, but now we concede quite a lot, although mostly down to defensive mistakes, so what are we?
Is Ole an attacking or defensive manager?
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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I think we are a defensive counter attacking team, Ole is changing his style as I think he is realising he can't play like he wants to with these players, he wants to be far more attacking but can't. We counter attack and rely on set pieces
Instinctively he's a defensive coach. In his first summer, he came in and bought an extremely defensive RB for £50m and spent £80m on a CB.
That's after taking over a United team who haven't scored more than 70 league goals since Alex Ferguson retired. He wants to be known as an attacking coach with everything he says, but his instincts are one of a defensive manager.
That's after taking over a United team who haven't scored more than 70 league goals since Alex Ferguson retired. He wants to be known as an attacking coach with everything he says, but his instincts are one of a defensive manager.
I wouldn't call us a defensive team for the very reason that we do concede a lot of chances to opponents. We try to play on front foot but not with much plan hence on occasion our football look clueless.
Does being clueless count?
On a serious note I think that Ole's tactics is all about letting players do their thing for most of the time. Which explains why he wants so many big fee signings. He relies on individual brilliance to cover the cracks
On a serious note I think that Ole's tactics is all about letting players do their thing for most of the time. Which explains why he wants so many big fee signings. He relies on individual brilliance to cover the cracks
So you're telling me the likes of Leeds United and Everton have better players than us?
People need to stop making excuses for Ole.
Yeah our squad isn't great, but he isn't tactically great either.
If he was a defensive coach we wouldn't be looking so clueless defensively. Have you seen our shape when we defend. Awb cannot even man mark , that is not a sign of defensive coach. We try to attack but look clueless.
I don't think he's either but somewhat stuck in the middle which is why it's going to be a long hard season.
His approach is counter attack. Statistic showed last seaso that when in possession we lost a lot of our games because we didn’t have a clue how to break opposition down. He is the textbook definition of a defensive manager. However, he tries to be an offensive one, but he fails at that as we don’t look like a cohesive unit when in possession.
Is he even a manager?
Technically? Obviously not, what we can't appreciate is the mental state and habit's our players are in, their passion, how much they buy into Ole's system.
I meant that his way isn't working, I wasn't proposing that was the players fault or Ole's as this isn't the thread for that, I just think it wasn't working simply.
We look clueless in attack too. He's just not a very good coach in either aspect of play.
But our results against the top teams last season suggests he's more comfortable playing the underdog.
Just because you like to attack doesnt mean you know how to
I've zero idea what his strength is, not a clue. We've not had an identity since he took charge, and we're not closer to finding out what it is.
He had our front 3 score more than Liverpools last season. Think he knows that an attacking team can't be built until defence sorted
The front 3 scored plenty of goals last season. Plenty of chances created as well once we got motoring
Yes I understand but I don't see us a defensive side or him as a defensive coach. People think being a defensive coach is some kind of stigma but Ole is just not a good defensive coach. At least while in attacking we do score goals but defensively I see us look clueless.
Somewhere in the middle. Trying to balance the team to make certain things work... CBs weak, so fullbacks are more defensive. Pogba in DM which costs the defence but helps the attack. Front 3 who dont track back which doesnt help the defence but helps the attack
Most of the coaches you mentioned are very balanced coaches.
Klopp and Guardiola for instance. Defensively they revolutionized modern pressing with Guardiola's high press and Klopp's Gegenpress, and offensively Guardiola especially introduced modern positional play which most competent teams use nowadays.
The clear exceptions are Mourinho and Simeone who are glaringly defensive, and Wenger who is glaringly attacking. Ole on the other hand is neither, as he hasn't demonstrated the skill at the highest level to either organize a superb defence or attack. Stylistically he cedes possession a lot, but that's down to our poor organization more than anything.
I'd say his ideals are that of a balanced attacking coach, but he lacks the skills to translate it into Premier League football. The Norwegians on here would probably tell us he was uber attacking at Molde.
The squad is more suited to it.
Ole is instinctively an attacking coach and you can see a clear idea behind what he wants to do. When we're building up the defensive midfielder drops between the centre backs, the full backs push up to the midfield line shifting us to a 3-3-1-3. Its the same shape that Ajax use. However, our players lack the composure and technique to play out from the back. Its bordering on obstinacy for Ole to continue to try to play this way without the players to do it. I think the post-lockdown games gave Ole a false impression about the capacity of our first XI.
The squad is much more geared to defend deep, leave no space in behind and rely on transitions to get in behind opponents once they've committed. We do not have brilliant, pacey 1v1 defenders who look secure playing a high line and compressing the game into the opponent's half. However, we do have a lot of players that do well when the whole game is in front of them - which is what happens when we just camp on the edge of our box. Hence why we do tend to get good results in big games.
So, in short, Ole is an attacking coach with a defensive, transition based squad. He'd be better off giving up playing on the front foot, cos if he keeps doing so we'll keep getting beaten. Be pragmatic, do what the squad as a whole is best tooled to do: Defend deep and play on the break.
Because he made it so. Specifically by spending £80m on Harry Maguire to pair him with Lindelof, and then another £50m on AWB. First chance he got to spend any money and he spunked it on them.
He's fecked us for a long, long time to come because the next coach will also be stuck with them.
Pretty much. I'd say he would like to put out attacking teams, but he isn't able to coach them that way. Unfortunately, teams are not built by telling players to "go out and play with a smile on your faces."
Good OP by the way, interesting discussion.
The thing with Ole is that I dont mind if I couldn't see a tactic he implements trying to play possesion or counter.
However, my problem with him is that he plays our players and most core like players in their wrong positions and in a way that doesnt get the best out of them.
Matic, Pogba, Bruno, Martial, Greenwood and Rashford are all poorly positioned which leaves our defensive line under extended pressure.
However, my problem with him is that he plays our players and most core like players in their wrong positions and in a way that doesnt get the best out of them.
Matic, Pogba, Bruno, Martial, Greenwood and Rashford are all poorly positioned which leaves our defensive line under extended pressure.
Has he though? I have no doubt Solskjaer approved of those deals don't get me wrong. However, its not clear to me who is responsible for making signings at United. The club was very proud to have briefed the 900 right back database when we signed Wan-Bissaka, Ole's name didn't feature very prominently in any of that. Whilst Maguire was seemingly a club target long before Ole arrived, we know that because Mourinho publicly moaned about not being allowed to sign him on Sky Sports punditry on the opening day of last season. Again there's been briefing this week that the club has tracked Cavani since 2013. How much of a hand did Ole have in deciding we'd move for him this window?
I'm not saying Ole had no hand in buying these players but, over the past seven years, we have ample evidence that the club does not always deliver the manager's targets. Say, for example, Boateng had come in from Bayern when Mourinho wanted him. We would be in a much better position, financially and on the field, to go forward. It didn't happen. Why didn't it happen? None of us can be sure.
Who knows what the situation was when we signed these players? There are tons of rumours that Mourinho only consented to sign Fred because he was told if not Fred you get nobody. Ultimately, there's no transparency over signings at United so we'll never know how much Ole really wanted these players. Although, I agree with you, having signed them United is more or less locked into playing a reactive style of football.
You must be joking? Rely on set pieces? We do one of the worst set pieces around. Our corners are so predictable that most teams do not even bother to mark anyone else apart from Maguire.
No idea to be honest. I'd say we are relatively more reserved than we are offensive though.
That being said, we have played some fluid attacking football at times (primarily due to our young and attacking forward trio) but struggle to maintain it over a consistent period of time or we suddenly slip into a long and prolonged trance where all our players are suddenly clueless on the ball.
That being said, we have played some fluid attacking football at times (primarily due to our young and attacking forward trio) but struggle to maintain it over a consistent period of time or we suddenly slip into a long and prolonged trance where all our players are suddenly clueless on the ball.
I think we’re labouring under this falsehood that we can’t break teams down unless we play with flying full backs and a high-defensive line.
Sure, we struggled at times to break down the so-called “lesser teams” last season but most of our bad results coincided with us missing key creative players such as Bruno, Martial, Rashford, Pogba and Greenwood for one reason or another.
Now that we have added van de Beek, Cavani and Pellistri, do we really need to be playing in such a gung-ho manner to get results? I personally don’t think so.
I think Ole is trying to walk before we can run with this squad. I would have taken a close 3rd (within 12pts) if offered pre season and I would definitely take that now! We can achieve that with a solid back four and two defensively-minded midfielders. We don’t need to try and play like City or Liverpool yet.
Sure, we struggled at times to break down the so-called “lesser teams” last season but most of our bad results coincided with us missing key creative players such as Bruno, Martial, Rashford, Pogba and Greenwood for one reason or another.
Now that we have added van de Beek, Cavani and Pellistri, do we really need to be playing in such a gung-ho manner to get results? I personally don’t think so.
I think Ole is trying to walk before we can run with this squad. I would have taken a close 3rd (within 12pts) if offered pre season and I would definitely take that now! We can achieve that with a solid back four and two defensively-minded midfielders. We don’t need to try and play like City or Liverpool yet.
Penalties come under set pieces
If Jose is labelled as defensive then Solskjaer is ultra defensive. Only people who judge him by his words (he wants to play like this and that) and by his reputation (knows the club etc..) can say that he is not defensive coach. Lvg said for him that he is defensive coach even before we all realised that.
He waits on counters. No matter are we playing against Spurs away, Liverpool at home, Palace away...he sets our play with deep defence, gives the ball to other team and waits. Especially if we score first.
And i want to be clear now; i don't mind if manager plays like that. I am not a fan who is obssessed with attacking free flowing football.
He waits on counters. No matter are we playing against Spurs away, Liverpool at home, Palace away...he sets our play with deep defence, gives the ball to other team and waits. Especially if we score first.
And i want to be clear now; i don't mind if manager plays like that. I am not a fan who is obssessed with attacking free flowing football.
username checks out.It's difficult to say. He's leading a big club like a small club. A bit like Moyes, but with more flair to it. And of course, he can reminisce about the good old days and fabricate some invisible continuity.
Do you think this is what Ole is trying to do? I think it's more just a lack of tactical understanding and a good enough appreciation of the limitations we've got as a squad.
It's easy to say after each game that the tempo wasn't good enough, our passing wasn't quick or crisp, etc. But if it is a pattern rather than anomaly, you do wonder what goes on in training (and he's many times talked about how good we are in training).
Last season we were a defensive counter-attacking team but Ole realised that it didn't work against 'lesser' teams who stood back, hence our poor results against weaker teams. This season he's trying to remedy that by playing a much higher line but so far it hasn't gone very well.
I think he started off very defensively last year as we were lacking creative players up front (Pogba injured). Then when Bruno came in (and Pogba recovered from his injury), we started being more of an attacking side.
At the moment, I think he s still trying to continue where we finished off last season. However we look slow up front and we re ending up with our defence easily exposed as the two midfielders in front of the defence are not effective in helping out the back 4.
At the moment, I think he s still trying to continue where we finished off last season. However we look slow up front and we re ending up with our defence easily exposed as the two midfielders in front of the defence are not effective in helping out the back 4.
I think as a coach he is more clued about attacking side of things rather than defense. He isn't very good at the defensive organisation of things
He tries to emulate Fergie but plays a bit more defensively as he’s just not as good at organizing the game (an over optimistic “yet”?). Fergie’s reputation as an attacking manager is a bit overstated, he was quite pragmatic by today’s standards – but the game was more defensive then.
Imagine my shock coming into this thread and it turning into an Ole bashing thread.
Anyway, I think it's a bit reductive to say attacking or defensive. Every team has to be defensive to an extent. Rodgers playing wingbacks, Wilder has his overlapping CBs, klopp and basically playing 3 defensively minded CMs to release his front three.
I would say he's probably a more attacking coach, but he seems pretty risk averse in his decision making. That could probably make him seem like a "defensive" coach.
Anyway, I think it's a bit reductive to say attacking or defensive. Every team has to be defensive to an extent. Rodgers playing wingbacks, Wilder has his overlapping CBs, klopp and basically playing 3 defensively minded CMs to release his front three.
I would say he's probably a more attacking coach, but he seems pretty risk averse in his decision making. That could probably make him seem like a "defensive" coach.
In his head he’s attacking but his team play defensive. Basically Jose part two. You could say he just used his tactics with a smile.
He wants to be an attacking coach, that much is clear. We saw the blueprints of his possession-based, high-pressing team after lockdown. His system after lockdown relied on individuals to carry it. All it took was one player to be out the team for the system to fail. We now have everyone we need for the system to work but our two CMs are in shambolic form. That team relied on Pogba and Matic to control the tempo which allowed us to box teams in but the way they're playing means we can't control games and teams can walk right through us. Matic is immobile and Pogba can barely string two passes together.
What we currently are is a disorganised mess. The full backs push up too far, which wouldn't be an issue because we've started playing with a high line so it's to be expected, but that fails because neither of our CBs have any pace to cover for the full backs. Like previously mentioned the midfield is a mess, which means we have no defensive shape because players are constantly being dragged out of position and others easily bypassed, it also gives attackers a chance to run at Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly or whoever head on, over and over again which obviously will expose their weaknesses massively.
He's obviously not against being defensive when it suits him, we've played counter attack plenty. We currently don't have the right players in form to even do that at the moment.
What we currently are is a disorganised mess. The full backs push up too far, which wouldn't be an issue because we've started playing with a high line so it's to be expected, but that fails because neither of our CBs have any pace to cover for the full backs. Like previously mentioned the midfield is a mess, which means we have no defensive shape because players are constantly being dragged out of position and others easily bypassed, it also gives attackers a chance to run at Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly or whoever head on, over and over again which obviously will expose their weaknesses massively.
He's obviously not against being defensive when it suits him, we've played counter attack plenty. We currently don't have the right players in form to even do that at the moment.